Return of the Jedi: A New Hope Remake?

[soundwave 0]

I think I read this somewhere, but I've noticed that Return of the Jedi is almost a remake of A New Hope with better effects. Now, the way I understand, ROTJ was changed significantly between drafts and final product: orginally, no Death Star, the final battle was fought in the Imperial City, etc.

But think about it, Lucas wanted Jabba in ANH but would have been too expensive and so it was scrapped. Jabba then appears in ROTJ. Needless to say, both movies start out on Tatooine and where the Cantina failed to meet Lucas' expectations with aliens, Jabba's palace is full of new aliens. The Death Star is the ultimate weapon in both movies which leads to a climatic space battle to destroy it. ANH's space battle featured a handful of rebel and Imperial ships and not much in the effects area where ROTJ featured hundreds of ships on both sides and was much more effects driven. Even the Emperor is almost a replacement of Tarkin, they both oversee the completion of the Death Star and the Emperor is almost an improvement of Tarkin, more evil and powerful. Any other similiarities?

[oierem 248]

I think I read this somewhere, but I've noticed that Return of the Jedi is almost a remake of A New Hope with better effects. Now, the way I understand, ROTJ was changed significantly between drafts and final product: orginally, no Death Star, the final battle was fought in the Imperial City, etc.

You are wrong. The first drafts of ROTJ have TWO Death Stars orbiting around the Imperial City, and Endor was a moon of the capital. The final battle was fought in space, on Endor, and the duel would happen in the capital (in a volcanic cave actually).

[Xander Harris 9,677]

ROTJ feels more and more like a weird 80's era Jim Henson production with the Star Wars characters. It was the first SW movie I saw and I fell in love with all things SW because of it, but damn is it such a different feel from the first two movies.

[John Crichton 4]

Wasn't Obi-Wan supposed to come back to life in one draft?

[Red 75]

Wasn't Obi-Wan supposed to come back to life in one draft?

I know Han was supposed to die in one version. Sometimes I think that would have been better, after all, it was Harrison Ford's who wanted it.

[indy4 160]

I think Han's death was in an early draft of ESB, not RotJ.

[Red 75]

I always understood that Han was to survive being frozen in carbonite only to die by the time ROTJ rolled along, but I could be wrong.

[indy4 160]

I thought the carbon freeze took the place of Han being killed, but you could be right.

[John Takis 394]

I think the plan at one point was for Han to be the one flying the Falcon through the Death Star, and that he'd die in a blaze of glory on the way out. I might be completely wrong, though. Obi-Wan WAS going to come back in the flesh at one point. It was a really weird final confrontation in the Emperor's lava caves, with folks jumping in and out of the "Netherworld."

As for the final film, I recognize its weak points but I love it nonetheless.

[aj_vader 733]

Thats mad, ive never heard any of them theories! (im not suggesting your all lying, I'm just shocked)

[A24 5,156]

orginally, no Death Star, the final battle was fought in the Imperial City, etc.

That would've been impossible to execute. Perhaps revisiting the Death Star was a technical solution. As for the rest of your post, I think you're right, there are many similarities. The biggest difference is the tone. I was about 20 years old when ROTJ came out and I felt the movie was very childish compared to the other installments.

Alex

[oierem 248]

As far as I know, Han's death was never even scripted, it was just something that Marquand, Kasdan and Ford wanted to happen.

Yes, Obi-Wan was going to "come back" during the final duel (but he didn't fight, so it was a bit stupid). Also, in the very final scene, Anakin Skywalker would come back to live from the Netherworld.

Also, in the early drafts, Vader was more of a sympathetic character with personal struggles: the Emperor captures Luke without Vader knowing it. When Vader realizes that Luke has been taken to the Emperor, he kills Moff Jerjerrod (who is a more impotant character) and confronts the Emperor. Vader wants to protect Luke from the Emperor. And of course, Vader was going to die along with the Emperor, both falling to the lava.

[Mr. Breathmask 624]

But think about it, Lucas wanted Jabba in ANH but would have been too expensive and so it was scrapped.

In 1977, Jabba was going to be a man. It wasn't until he was scripted to be in Return of the Jedi that they turned him into a giant slimy frog thing, so expense wasn't the reason for cutting the Jabba scene from Star Wars. It was most likely cut for pacing reasons.

[A24 5,156]

Wasn't it a man because they didn't have the technology/money to build a believable creature? I mean, weren't there drawings, sketches or [Vader]plans[/Vader] that point towards a creature rather than a man?

[Quintus 6,499]

Either way, it's far and away the worst cg moment in the entire series. Of course, some might say that in itself is a little victory.

[oierem 248]

Wasn't it a man because they didn't have the technology/money to build a believable creature? I mean, weren't there drawings, sketches or [Vader]plans[/Vader] that point towards a creature rather than a man?

Nope, there aren't any sketches about that. Jabba was supposed to be a human, and was shot as a human being. The scene was cut very early in the editing process because Lucas didn't like the actor and felt that the scene didn't add much.

[AzOutcast 128]

Here's an interesting interview with Gary Kurtz, done at IGN back in 2002. http://movies.ign.com/articles/376/376873p1.html

It's well worth to read, and he goes on to say that in an original outline of Jedi, Han was supposed to die.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

It's always fascinating to listen to Kurtz, although he seems a tad, well, bitter. He seems very dismissive of other people's movies that he was originally involved in (like RAIDERS and APOCALYPSE NOW) - the word "interesting" is a good tell.

I wish he'd stayed on for SW, but I'm happy he had nothing else to do with Indy.

[John Crichton 4]

I remember reading the ANH Jabba scene was cut because it gave the audience basically the exact same info as the Greedo scene.

[Jay 46,245]

The Greedo scene originally had different dialogue; When the Jabba scene was cut, some of the information that would have been relayed there was moved to the Greedo scene instead. It was easy to do so because it was just changing subtitles on the screen.

And that's one of the problems with how they inserted the Jabba seen back into the ANH:SE - it now makes a lot of dialogue redundant because they didn't change the Greedo subtitles back

[Ollie 1,375]

If I'm not mistaken, Jabba was originally going to done in post production, more than likely a stop motion creature and probably more of a humanoid, and matted in over the actor that was used for a reference point.

Love the interview with Kurtz although I disagree about Raiders. I think the script is fine.

Technology has been the worst enemy to Star Wars because it has allowed Lucas to do too much. With Star Wars Lucas had to rely on the financial limits as well as SPX limits for that time period. He had to improvise and use what he had. I think once he got what he wanted the drive just wasn't there anymore.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,391]

If I'm not mistaken, Jabba was originally going to done in post production, more than likely a stop motion creature and probably more of a humanoid, and matted in over the actor that was used for a reference point.

Rubbish, if they were going to do that, why is the actor playing the Human Jabba in a full costume of a tattooine smuggler-boss?

[Luke Skywalker 2,386]

Jabba was going to be a hairy creature similar to chewie (not a wookie, just another furry humanoid alien).

It is said (by GL, so believe it or not..) on the intro of SW:ANH SE VHS.

If I'm not mistaken, Jabba was originally going to done in post production, more than likely a stop motion creature and probably more of a humanoid, and matted in over the actor that was used for a reference point.

Rubbish, if they were going to do that, why is the actor playing the Human Jabba in a full costume of a tattooine smuggler-boss?

What did you want, him being naked, dessed in Earthly clothes? Bluescreen not as developed as it is now, i dont think they thought about dressing him in blue or some removable color to erase him easily...

He has a lot of hair, maybe to disguise some of the overlaping of the creature...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,391]

I don't believe anything George Lucas says about how he wanted Star Wars in 1977!

[Mr. Breathmask 624]

There's nothing in the shooting script about Jabba being an alien and the full costume is enough evidence to suggest Jabba was supposed to be human. Not to mention the complexities involved in integrating a stopmotion character in a moving shot, while interacting with a real actor who moves freely around him. They had to digitally lift Harrison Ford from the background and added some bit about him stepping over Jabba's tail just to make the whole design change work for the ANH SE for crying out loud.

Come to think of it, if Jabba's such a vicious feared killer, he sure lets people walk over him easily.

Honestly, the whole thing was best left on the cutting room floor.

[steb74 53]

Jabba was going to be a hairy creature similar to chewie (not a wookie, just another furry humanoid alien).

It is said (by GL, so believe it or not..) on the intro of SW:ANH SE VHS.

I'm sure there's a much earlier reference by Lucas about this but it would require considerable digging around to find it though.

I guess the question is how much can I be bothered to look?? We'll see ....

[oierem 248]

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/jabba.html

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

ROTJ feels more and more like a weird 80's era Jim Henson production with the Star Wars characters. It was the first SW movie I saw and I fell in love with all things SW because of it, but damn is it such a different feel from the first two movies.

ESB has a vastly diffferent feel from SW too.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,391]

TESB feels the most...professionally made, of the three.

[Datameister 2,586]

I agree, Stefan. Star Wars is a little more raw, with a lower budget and more dated production values. ROTJ indulges too much in the Ewoks and the acting is more problematic. But ESB feels very professional. (I'd have a hard time picking a favorite between it and Star Wars, though.)

[A24 5,156]

ESB has a vastly diffferent feel from SW too.

The first one is a simple fairy tale with mythological heroes and themes. The second one is quite soapy. Who's going to marry who? What?! He's my father?!