Mattris

It did, yeah. According to Deadline (see the Box Office Thread for more), Lightyear made Disney lose over a hundred million dollars. Strange World, another Disney animation featuring a gay character, was even more of a disaster and lost Disney almost $200 million.
 
Of course, the "gay content" wasn't the only reason these movies bombed. The sad fact is that, these days, people only watch animations in theaters if they're based on existing properties, like sequels (Finding Dory, Incredibles 2, Toy Story 4, Minions 2, etc) or a game adaptation like Mario.

What I said was essentially "This thread was more fun when it was about Mattris' Star Wars theories."  I deleted it because I figured the conversation didn't quite stop being about that.

If those spin-off movies were planned as movies, they were eventually made as Disney+ shows with more content/length than single films.
 
 
How do you know there were firings? We only know what is announced by Lucasfilm.
 
 
Perhaps @GerateWohl didn't answer because I stumped him.
 
 
The logical explanation that so many people are 'fatigued' with Star Wars is that they don't understand it.  It's like playing/watching a game/sport of which you don't know the rules. Of course you're going to eventually lose interest. You're not 'tuned in' on what's happening or what's supposed to happen.
 
 
On the contrary, my point was not 'invalidated'.
 
For many/most of the audience, it would seem inappropriate or forced that a gay character would act overtly gay in a movies made for kids. If a controversial character/relationship/scene/plot causes a project to make less money, then I would say that either [1] the makers of project did not care about making the most money because pushing their agenda was more important or [2] the makers were not aware of what decisions/specific inclusions of the project would result in making the most money.
 
Megacorporations can afford expensive missteps, like the Buzz Lightyear spin-off, which featured at least one gay character.
 
 
I'm aware of some relatively minor inconsistencies in the Star Wars canon. But most fans are either unaware of them or don't care. The ones who do care about so-called 'inconsistencies' haven't the slightest clue what they don't know, about say, how the Force works and how certain characters use the Force.
 
And even then, some - or all - of the minor inconsistencies you stated could be chalked up to a varying point of view of the characters who experienced those particular events. Star Wars is not presented as a fly on the wall. (It's omniscient third-person, from the perspective of the main characters.)
 
 
Because of this reality, the audience should be using the best evidence available in order to make an informed conclusion: the explanation that is most likely true. Opinions based on a surface-level assessment of the work are not reliable in the slightest, especially if one thinks they're experiencing an escapist work made primarily to make money and satisfy the most people episode to episode.
 
Short-sighted assessments, assumptions, and group-think are a recipe for disaster when interpreting a work like Star Wars. But this is exactly what I think has befallen its audience/fandom.
 
 
If Iger made the executive decision to not use his stories/sequel treatments, KK should have quit on principal, based on her loyalty to George. She promised him on camera they would use his stories!
 
It simply doesn't make sense that a principled, smart man like George Lucas would associate with anyone who betrayed him or was complicit in the betrayal, such as "white slavers".
 
 
No. I'm saying IX and X were shot over the course of about a year. This includes the supposed re-shoots that were reported to have happened throughout the summer and fall of 2019.

So they are not actually incompetent, they just appear incompetent. Hahahahaha OK 

Why bother? Even if they don't care about Star Wars, why would I risk this person sharing the theory and taking the credit?

What I concluded is "really funny" to you because you can't fathom Lucasfilm (and now along with Disney) intended to throw off their audience... that they could have managed to do this... that they did do it... that so many people collaborated on something truly special... and through a planned story - and everything involving its production and marketing - succeeded.
 
 
What do you think was sabotaged about IX?  The part of the story it had to tell was told competently, and it had to end as Episode VI ended. ("It's likely poetry; they rhyme.")
 
 
It is simply obvious. Lucasfilm understands Star Wars. They hired writers who understand Star Wars. Using George Lucas' story as the basis, the Saga continued and will continue.
 
From the very beginning, the Star Wars story has been made and presented in accordance with a deliberate tone and perspective. Lucasfilm knows what the fans think, want, and expect from Star Wars. But it's not Lucasfilm's duty to give the fans what they want or expect. On the contrary, Lucasfilm are giving them what they don't expect... all in the name of good storytelling, of course.
 
Remember, good stories may give you what they want. The best stories will give you what you didn't know you wanted.
 
 
You underestimate the power of surprise. The Star Wars audience doesn't know what they don't know. They think they understand Star Wars well enough... that it's the writers of 'the new Lucasfilm' who have lost the plot. The truth is, the audience never knew the plot...  or Lucasfilm's plan to keep them distracted and assuming.
 
I'd say Kathleen Kennedy is like Admiral Holdo, in that the plan was not hers, but was the plan of her superior and mentor. In TLJ, the plan was Leia's. Concerning Star Wars, it's George Lucas.
 
 
Oh, you have no idea how right you are, Chen.
 
 
Why do you think the writers of the sequels didn't have an idea about the state of the galaxy? The events of TFA made it clear, starting with the opening scroll.
 
 
Lucasfilm wants their audience to think they're incompetent because they have something special planned but don't want to show their strong hand just yet. I expect that Star Wars fans' high expectations will be unexpectedly exceeded.
 
 
Why did Kathleen Kennedy say this? She did not have to mention the progress of the script. She said so much about this film. Why say anything except 'Rey will return'?

What I concluded is "really funny" to you because you can't fathom Lucasfilm (and now along with Disney) intended to throw off their audience... that they could have managed to do this... that they did do it... that so many people collaborated on something truly special... and through a planned story - and everything involving its production and marketing - succeeded.
 
 
What do you think was sabotaged about IX?  The part of the story it had to tell was told competently, and it had to end as Episode VI ended. ("It's likely poetry; they rhyme.")
 
 
It is simply obvious. Lucasfilm understands Star Wars. They hired writers who understand Star Wars. Using George Lucas' story as the basis, the Saga continued and will continue.
 
From the very beginning, the Star Wars story has been made and presented in accordance with a deliberate tone and perspective. Lucasfilm knows what the fans think, want, and expect from Star Wars. But it's not Lucasfilm's duty to give the fans what they want or expect. On the contrary, Lucasfilm are giving them what they don't expect... all in the name of good storytelling, of course.
 
Remember, good stories may give you what they want. The best stories will give you what you didn't know you wanted.
 
 
You underestimate the power of surprise. The Star Wars audience doesn't know what they don't know. They think they understand Star Wars well enough... that it's the writers of 'the new Lucasfilm' who have lost the plot. The truth is, the audience never knew the plot...  or Lucasfilm's plan to keep them distracted and assuming.
 
I'd say Kathleen Kennedy is like Admiral Holdo, in that the plan was not hers, but was the plan of her superior and mentor. In TLJ, the plan was Leia's. Concerning Star Wars, it's George Lucas.
 
 
Oh, you have no idea how right you are, Chen.
 
 
Why do you think the writers of the sequels didn't have an idea about the state of the galaxy? The events of TFA made it clear, starting with the opening scroll.
 
 
Lucasfilm wants their audience to think they're incompetent because they have something special planned but don't want to show their strong hand just yet. I expect that Star Wars fans' high expectations will be unexpectedly exceeded.
 
 
Why did Kathleen Kennedy say this? She did not have to mention the progress of the script. She said so much about this film. Why say anything except 'Rey will return'?

Both previous Star Wars trilogies?

I'd like to know what you think "went south". What evidence supports your position? Let me remind you that at Star Wars Celebration 2019 - shortly after the Episode IX "Roll it... again" teaser was shown - Kathleen Kennedy was asked directly if bringing back Emperor Palpatine was part of the plan from the beginning. She confirmed this was the case.
 
No, the simplest explanation is that nothing has gone south with Star Wars. Everything is proceeding as planned.
 
What's happening couldn't be clearer to me: Lucasfilm don't want the masses to figure out what they've been doing. So they adhere to a marketing/presentation strategy to keep their secrets. The audience becomes distracted by rumors, opinions, assumptions, and group think. All the unexpected, unwanted things coming out of Star Wars as of late are perceived as general incompetency... that Lucasfilm doesn't know or care what the fans want. This is a mistaken assessment of what really happening. This is how Lucasfilm are so successful in what they're doing... what they have always been doing.
 
But there's far more substance than distraction. The vast majority of these clues and elements of foreshadowing can be found within the Star Wars canon, starting with the 1976 film novelization. All told, the content of these volumes prove there was always a plan for Star Wars. Though, one must have a certain point of view to decode it all.
 
Consistent with the "effective Jedi trap", the Star Wars audience is currently on the far side of the galaxy so as not to interfere with their real plans. So that by the time the audience realizes what has happened, it will be already too late.

I'd like to know what you think "went south". What evidence supports your position? Let me remind you that at Star Wars Celebration 2019 - shortly after the Episode IX "Roll it... again" teaser was shown - Kathleen Kennedy was asked directly if bringing back Emperor Palpatine was part of the plan from the beginning. She confirmed this was the case.
 
No, the simplest explanation is that nothing has gone south with Star Wars. Everything is proceeding as planned.
 
What's happening couldn't be clearer to me: Lucasfilm don't want the masses to figure out what they've been doing. So they adhere to a marketing/presentation strategy to keep their secrets. The audience becomes distracted by rumors, opinions, assumptions, and group think. All the unexpected, unwanted things coming out of Star Wars as of late are perceived as general incompetency... that Lucasfilm doesn't know or care what the fans want. This is a mistaken assessment of what really happening. This is how Lucasfilm are so successful in what they're doing... what they have always been doing.
 
But there's far more substance than distraction. The vast majority of these clues and elements of foreshadowing can be found within the Star Wars canon, starting with the 1976 film novelization. All told, the content of these volumes prove there was always a plan for Star Wars. Though, one must have a certain point of view to decode it all.
 
Consistent with the "effective Jedi trap", the Star Wars audience is currently on the far side of the galaxy so as not to interfere with their real plans. So that by the time the audience realizes what has happened, it will be already too late.

Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Mattris is. You have to see it for yourself.

That's what they want you to believe. 

Now I understand. 

Anyone else feeling like this whenever we open the forum these days?
 

Fuck me, now he's turned into Yoda. 

I'll make it easier for you, @Demodex. Here are the remaining points and questions that you haven't addressed.
 
My intent is to move our debate/discussion forward because repeating the same points over and over - of which you ignore, dismiss, or doubt their legitimacy - is pointless.
 
Firstly, what you think happened in the sequel trilogy, especially it relates to the previous two trilogies?
 
 
Can you think of any reason that Lucasfilm would want to look like idiots?
 
Speaking of a plan... In his published Star Wars: Fascinating Facts  book, Pablo Hidalgo (the head of the Lucasfilm Story Group) reveals that the primary elements for the story of the sequel trilogy came from George Lucas. Do you believe him?
 
 
So certain are you? With such strong conviction, you should probably have a better idea than "if they bring Palps back again".
 
Why do you think so much was revealed about this 'Rey movie'?
 
Why do you think Kathleen Kennedy said that it wasn't even done being written?
 
 
That's not it at all. What happening here is that they want you to think  there wasn't a master plan for the future. (You even said it yourself: 'Everybody knows this.' Yes, everybody knows what they were told by the very people they don't like/trust... and nothing else.)
 
What is illogical about my reasoning? Doubting Lucasfilm's competence and skill to deceive and distract is not counter evidence.
 
 
You keep saying this. But the fact is, I've put forth a credible explanation for my conclusions more times than I probably should have.
 
What I'm saying does make sense if Lucasfilm wants their audience to think they're incompetent. No plan for the trilogy AND the writer/director of the finale of the Saga was replaced after a script had already been written, two years after he had been hired? You suspect nothing is amiss here? Incompetence only? With stakes this high? All this after the (perceived) upheaval of the Saga that was The Last Jedi?
 
If you think there's nothing fishy about the so-called 'firing of Colin Trevorrow from IX', you should "know or care about the details of Trevorrow's leaks". Just like with Star Wars in general, the details make all the difference. Ignoring details - especially if you're already sure you're right about something - will not make you informed or correct. (It actually means you're more likely to be wrong.)
 
Concerning the truth of all this, you'll eventually realize that so many clues were hidden in plain sight. But the masses just couldn't drop their pride enough to fathom that Lucasfilm intended to trick their audience and succeeded with flying colors.
 
 
I seriously doubt that.
 
Chris Terrio, JJ's co-writer on TROS, said that 'it was Kathleen Kennedy's intention for the Saga to have been telling one story'. We know for a fact that Palpatine was the 'big bad' of the previous two trilogies. Do you think they temporarily forgot this little detail and had to fire Trevorrow because he forgot too?
 
All evidence considered, the explanation seems obvious to me: Lucasfilm wants this audience to keep running with (false) narratives, especially that the Emperor's return wasn't planned because there was no plan at all for the trilogy.  In doing so, they got their audience to assume so much that isn't so. All this because they are looking for maximum shock value with what comes next.
 
Finally, do you concede that it's possible  that my explanation is the correct one?
 
 
Please address everything I've said here. If you respond like you normally do (doubt, saying there's no reason Lucasfilm would do this, calling me crazy, etc.), we will have wasted even more of our time.

Don't be so difficult, you know George Lucas had it all planned in his head since he was an infant. 
 
 
The bad parts?

Mattris?

@Giftheck I feel the same about Star Wars these days. The utter mediocrity of recent SW productions (both on the big and the small screen) combined with the near omnipresence of the brand made me apathetic at best and hostile at worst towards the franchise. I know Andor and Mandalorian S3 seem good enough, but I'm so tired of Star Wars that it will take a while until I have enough energy to actually check them.
 
So yeah, I'm really "disenchanted" about SW.
 
Indiana Jones, on the other hand, looks great! Competent director, cool trailers, Williams returning and the best part: not a single Disney+ series in sight.

He told me all the excess discarded JW material from IX was actually material recorded in secret for X

What I've already said in this thread is proof enough that I knew what was going to happen. Some posts were more specific than others.
 
How can you predict your opinion of the upcoming movie if you can't predict what's going to happen in the movie?
 
My prediction is that self-proclaimed Jedi Master Rey Skywalker will be on a mission to restart the Jedi. She and some of her friends, including Finn, will go on a scavenger hunt... an unexpected, daring mission that will lead to places more exhilarating than she could have dreamed of.
 
I'll be surprised if it takes place 15 years after TROS, as was mentioned at SWC 2023. I think that was a good ol' Lucasfilm misdirect, as was their statement that the film isn't even done being written. Nonsense.

Trying to make sense of Star Wars based only on what has been said by the filmmakers, publicly-available 'behind-the-scenes' outlines/treatments/documents, and/or a child-like interpretation of the films is a fruitless endeavor.

Trying to make sense of Star Wars based only on what has been said by the filmmakers, publicly-available 'behind-the-scenes' outlines/treatments/documents, and/or a child-like interpretation of the films is a fruitless endeavor.

Yes