Fancyarcher

This makes Dear Basketball,  film and score, way, way too poignant. 

NBA legend Kobe Bryant was killed in a helicopter crash this sunday. 
 
In addition to his brilliant basketball career, he and JW collaborated on the Dear Basketball animated short film.
 
Rest in peace.
 
https://www.thewrap.com/kobe-bryant-killed-in-calabasas-helicopter-crash/
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-51209197

@karelm @Fancyarcher @Brundlefly @Display Name @TownerFan @Disco Stu @Mr. Breathmask @Faleel J.M. @El Jefe @Modest Expectations @Laserschwert @publicist @BrotherSound @Modest Expectations @Jay @Stefancos @Jurassic Shark -- as promised we are starting off 2020 with a special "throwback" episode, where Clark takes a break and Jens joins us in his place, to discuss the beautiful score Jerry wrote in 1958 for "Tongues of Angels", a live filmed play in the Studio One series -- see above for the episode itself if you're inclined to watch it. Though it has been up on YouTube since before the podcast started, we only discovered recently in November that Jerry composed a score for it. Our discussion (actually recorded in December 2019) is here:
http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/2486198-episode-24-tongues-of-angels-westinghouse-studio-one-1958
 
Yavar

tl;dr

I was a big fan of it as well. I raved about it in my review. I think it's Tarantino's best since Basterds, and my first or second favorite of the Best Picture nominees. 

I've said before that the odds of an 87 year old scoring one of the biggest movies of the year are really very low. There are just so many mental and physical ailments that would prevent an 87 year old from continuing to work, including the fact that he is about 10 years older than the average life expectancy.  John Barry and Jerry Goldsmith both died in their 70s. We really are very lucky John is still with us and available to conclude the Skywalker saga that he helped start over 40 years ago.

@karelm @Fancyarcher @Brundlefly @Display Name @TownerFan @Disco Stu @Mr. Breathmask @Faleel J.M. @El Jefe @Modest Expectations @Laserschwert @publicist @BrotherSound @Modest Expectations @Jay @Stefancos @Jurassic Shark -- we have a new regular episode (actually posted on December 30th, but I've been traveling so forgive me for the late update here). Jeff Bond returns as special guest host for our discussion of his favorite Goldsmith Thriller score, "Hay-Fork and Bill-Hook". Our great initial conversation about Goldsmith in this episode (before getting to Hay-Fork and Bill-Hook) makes this episode a particularly great jumping-off point for anyone curious to give our show a try for the first time:
http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/2372264-episode-23-thriller-hay-fork-and-bill-hook-1961
 
I hope you all enjoy (if you don't know this score, you should -- it's superb), and let me know your thoughts after listening if you are so inclined. Also ICYMI, I highly recommend the conversation I had with Bruce Broughton as well:
http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/2083614-odyssey-interviews-bruce-broughton

For anyone curious to experience "Hay-Fork and Bill-Hook" in context before listening to our episode (which does contain spoilers), here it is:
 
I recommend you try out the opening of that, at least, to get a flavor of the score. It's great stuff!

Yavar

I enjoyed this, probably more then most, but I still had a lot of issues, particularly with how they handled The Last Jedi stuff. I also thought that Palpatine's return thematically didn't make as much sense as it could have. I will say that the last scene got to me, it helps that most of the performances were pretty good, and John Williams's score was fantastic as ever, but it's clear that they should have had properly plotted out this trilogy from the start. In the long run, it really felt all disconnected.

Last night my daughter watched the 1934 film Babes in Toyland starring Laurel & Hardy.  She’s seen it before and loves it.  One of the pleasures of the modern era is having decades and centuries of human culture at your fingertips.  My kids will be exposed to the films of not just my youth but of the past 100 years!

This was a very fun episode to listen to. Not just for the Goldsmith discussion, but also honestly from the way you guys described those Gunsmoke shows, it made me wanna go back and look at the series again. I remember watching it years ago on TVland, and it didn't make much of an impression, but to be fair I was also like 8 at the time. 

I enjoyed this, probably more then most, but I still had a lot of issues, particularly with how they handled The Last Jedi stuff. I also thought that Palpatine's return thematically didn't make as much sense as it could have. I will say that the last scene got to me, it helps that most of the performances were pretty good, and John Williams's score was fantastic as ever, but it's clear that they should have had properly plotted out this trilogy from the start. In the long run, it really felt all disconnected.

Because simple put especially for me, they're better. Sure the prequels were groundbreaking in terms of technology, but even as someone who grew up with all films (The Phantom Menace was everything for me in 1999), I find myself more drawn to rewatch the recent TFA and TLJ much more. Better fleshed-out characters, and lightsaber battle too. Plus the movies don't have the burden of having to set up a massive world and characters that we were already attached to beforehand, the way the prequels did. 

I find AOTC in no way an improvement over TPM personally.
 
Those "love scenes" are rank!

Why does Rey's character need to have sexuality or sexual overtones to her character, purely because she's a female?
 
Do all male protagonists in films have sexual overtones integrated into their character?
 
Frankly, some of these so-called "criticisms" are disgustingly shallow and, frankly, sexist. How is a female character flawed just because she isn't showing sexual interest in other characters?

Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.
 
I love how character based this is. All of our main characters experience an emotional journey and growth in this movie. And do so often by, screwing up initially. There's a lot of false assumptions made by our heroes, who then have to deal with the consequences in this visually splendid space adventure.
 
Like with Knives Out 2 years later, Rian Johnson plays with perceptions. The perceptions of his audience and of his characters, in a way that doesn't feel cheap or engineering for the sake of the plot.
 
A few structural issues aside this is an excellent, even daring film that has the balls to question the foundations of the franchise it's build on, and clears the slate to a large extent.
 
It's a pity many "fans" don't like this approach. They wanna see the stuff they love celebrated, not deconstructed and questioned.
 
I fear JJ will retcon this film as much as he can for TROS.
 
Still, easily the best one since 1980, and a film that will be far better regarded 10 years from now 
 
**** our of ****

Already I can hear this new score is cast in the same language as the last two Sequel scores. Same harmonic pallette and darkness. These scores have been more edgy, more visceral somehow. I love what I'm hearing. Williams has an inexhaustible supply of invention it seems. Its often the case with Composers whether for film or the concert hall, whereas pop artists have shorter shelf lives because they are restricted by the 3 minute song form. This is excellent music. Each new bar that comes is a new wonder. I'm seeing with my ears right now. When I see the movie itself I'll hear with my eyes. These last three scores have redeemed the patchy quality of the movies. This is exactly the kind of music I was hoping for before Force Awakens was released. A mirroring of the OT scores but shot through some darker prism. He never let's us down. Even at his advanced age he's got a fire of youth in this new writing. BRAVO MAESTRO WILLIAMS! 

This extract of score we had ages ago is 1:20+ of "Hallway Shooting" track 8
 

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - For Your Consideration (FYC) Album
 
01 Prologue (1:45)
02 Falcon Flight (2:22)
03 We Go Together (2:10)
04 In the Desert (2:26)
05 A Prisoner (1:23)
06 To Kimiji (1:37)
07 Fleeing from Kimiji (1:53)
08 Hallway Shooting (2:11)
09 Hard to Get Rid Of (2:19)
10 Join Me (2:21)
11 The Old Death Star (2:14)
12 Off the Waterfront (1:03)
13 Final Saber Duel (1:38)
14 Healing Wounds (2:49)
15 Advice (1:54)
16 Battle of the Resistance (1:54)
17 Approaching the Throne (4:16)
18 Parents (1:57)
19 Coming Together (1:44)
20 Seeing Sights (3:17)
21 Rescue (1:10)
22 Farewell (4:27)
23 A New Home (1:42)

TOTAL TIME - 50:32
 
 
F.A.Q.:
 
FYC? What's that stand for?

For Your Consideration.  Basically, Disney setup a website where eligible voters for the various awards that are given out around the end of the year could learn where they could attend a screening of their films, see which awards the films were pushing for, and listen to selections of the score for Best Score nominations.  For the films that had score selections, they are exactly what is heard in the film, and sometimes include music not on the commercial soundtrack albums!
 
So the music here is different than the album?

Yes!  Some tracks are almost the same, but the structure of the FYC program is fundamentally different; It is a selection of music from the movie exactly as it appears in the final cut of the film, even if the music used in the film was edited from Williams' original intentions.  This could mean that a track might contain an Insert Williams later wrote, where the OST presented his original version; or a track might contain less music than its OST counterpart of the scene was re-edited after the recording of the music, or even a track might contain some music artificially looped or stretched if a scene got lengthened after scoring.  The FYC always reflects these non-intended conforms to final picture from start to finish.
 
So does the FYC contain the complete score?

Certainly not.  The FYC is only 50 minutes long.
 
Which tracks contain music that is not on the OST album?
 
We won't know that until the OST album is available to hear.
 
Where can I find this FYC?
 
https://disneystudiosawards.com/star-wars-score.html
https://disneystudiosawards.com/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker/score
 
In case Disney later removes this page, it is archived permanently here:
 
https://web.archive.org/web/20191210202934/https://disneystudiosawards.com/star-wars-score.html
 
I don't see a download link there; How do I download the files from Disney's site?
 
 
 
 
In case Disney ever takes the files down, they are archived permanently here:
 
 
 
The files on Disney's site have really low bitrate of 192kbps; Is there any chance its available uncompressed somewhere?
 
Disney should be mailing out pressed physical CDs with the FYC program to Academy music department voters sometime soon.  Usually not long after that, they begin turning up on ebay, and not long after that, lossless rips appear online.  NOTE: It is against the board's rules to ask for a lossless rip in the public forum.  Use the PM System or go to other websites for that discussion!  Posts asking for illegal downloads will be deleted!
 
 
 
Alright, so what's on the FYC album that is not on the OST album?
 
01 Prologue (1:45)
[0:00-0:07] (0:07) = alternate mix of OST 02 Journey to Exegol [0:47-0:50] [0:07-0:26] (0:19) = OST 02 Journey to Exegol [1:02-1:20] [0:26-0:28] (0:02) = OST 02 Journey to Exegol [1:24-1:25] [0:28-0:36] (0:08) = OST 02 Journey to Exegol [1:31-1:40] [0:36-0:56] (0:20) = OST 02 Journey to Exegol [2:13-2:33] [0:56-1:28] (0:32)  = NOT ON OST (Tracked music, an alternate for Rey arriving at Exegol late in the film) [1:28-1:37] (0:09) = tracked music from OST 01 Fanfare and Prologue [1:44-1:52] [1:37-end] (0:07) = NOT ON OST (Tracked music from Hard To Get Rid Of 1:58-2:01) 02 Falcon Flight (2:22)
[all] = NOT ON OST 03 We Go Together (2:10)
[all] = OST 09 We Go Together [0:00-2:33], with minor edits, but a proper clean ending 04 In the Desert (2:26)
[all] = NOT ON OST 05 A Prisoner (1:23)
[all] = NOT ON OST 06 To Kimiji (1:37)
[all] = NOT ON OST 07 Fleeing from Kimiji (1:53)
[0:00-1:35] (1:35) = OST 08 Fleeing From Kijimi [0:00-1:33], with minor edits [1:35-end] (0:18) = NOT ON OST (Full clean ending of the cue) 08 Hallway Shooting (2:11)
[all] = NOT ON OST 09 Hard to Get Rid Of (2:19)
[all] = NOT ON OST 10 Join Me (2:21)
[0:00-1:48] (1:48) = OST 10 Join Me [0:00-2:05], shortened in numerous places [1:48-2:03] (0:15) = tracked music from The Battle of the Resistance [2:03-end] (0:18) = OST 10 Join Me [3:17-end] 11 The Old Death Star (2:14)
[0:00-1:14] (1:14) = OST 04 The Old Death Star [0:00-1:19], with minor edits [1:14-end] (1:00) = NOT ON OST, either tracked in from something or a replacement insert for what's on the OST from 1:19-2:21 12 Off the Waterfront (1:03)
[all] = OST 04 The Old Death Star [2:21-end] 13 Final Saber Duel (1:38)
[0:00-1:10] (1:10) = OST 12 The Final Saber Duel [0:00-1:05], with minor edits [1:10-end] (0:27)  = NOT ON OST (The proper full ending to the cue) 14 Healing Wounds (2:49)
[0:00-0:31] = NOT ON OST, definitely a replacement insert for what's on the OST from 1:05-1:42 [0:31-end] = OST 12 The Final Saber Duel [1:42-end] 15 Advice (1:54)
[all] = NOT ON OST 16 Battle of the Resistance (1:54)
[0:00-0:02] (0:02) = OST 13 Battle of the Resistance [0:04-0:08], shortened [0:02-end] (1:52) = OST 13 Battle of the Resistance [1:12-end], with minor edits 17 Approaching the Throne (4:16)
[all] = OST 14 Approaching The Throne, with minor differences (including a pitch-shifted opening and a different ending [a different choral performance with less orchestra under it]) 18 Parents (1:57)
[all] = NOT ON OST 19 Coming Together (1:44)
[all] = NOT ON OST 20 Seeing Sights (3:17)
[all] = OST 15 The Force Is With You [0:00-3:02], with minor difference (including a clean ending) 21 Rescue (1:10)
[0:00-0:15] (0:15) = OST 15 The Force Is With You [3:02-3:16] [0:15-0:30] (0:15) = NOT ON OST (A nice section he chose to microedit out of the OST program) [0:30-end] (0:40) = OST 15 The Force Is With You [3:16-end] 22 Farewell (4:27)
[all] = OST 16 Farewell [0:48-end], with minor edits 23 A New Home (1:42)
[all] = OST 18 A New Home  
If I'm adding that up right, that's 21:10 of unreleased music!
 
 
 
 
Great!  Now what if I want to combine both albums together into a long expanded album?
 
Here is a quick and dirty playlist to get the most total music possible, without using a WAV editor, just combining tracks from both into a playlist
 
OST 01 Fanfare and Prologue 4:34 OST 02 Journey to Exegol 2:49 FYC 02 Falcon Flight 2:22 OST 09 We Go Together 3:17 OST 05 The Speeder Chase 3:21 FYC 04 In the Desert 2:26 FYC 05 A Prisoner 1:23 FYC 06 To Kimiji 1:37 OST 08 Fleeing from Kijimi 2:51 FYC 08 Hallway Shooting 2:11 FYC 09 Hard to Get Rid Of 2:19 OST 10 Join Me 3:42 OST 04 The Old Death Star 3:16 OST 12 The Final Saber Duel 3:57 FYC 15 Advice 1:54 OST 06 Destiny of a Jedi 5:12 OST 11 They Will Come 2:50 OST 13 Battle of the Resistance 2:51 OST 14 Approaching the Throne 4:16 FYC 18 Parents 1:57 FYC 19 Coming Together 1:44 OST 15 The Force Is with You 3:59 OST 16 Farewell 5:14 OST 17 Reunion 4:04 OST 18 A New Home 1:47 OST 19 Finale 10:51
SCORE TIME - 1:26:44
BONUS TRACKS OST 07 Anthem of Evil 3:23 OST 03 The Rise of Skywalker 4:18
BONUS TRACK TIME - 7:41  
GRAND TOTAL TIME - 1:34:25
 
 
Here is a more detailed editing guide, which you have to use sound editing software to make.  
 
THE FILM SCORE
OST 01 Fanfare and Prologue 4:34 OST 02 Journey to Exegol 2:49 FYC 02 Falcon Flight 2:22 OST 09A We Go Together [0:00-2:33], with the clean ending from FYC 03 We Go Together 2:10 OST 09B Arrival at Pasaana [2:33-end] OST 05 The Speeder Chase 3:21 FYC 04 In the Desert 2:26 FYC 05 A Prisoner 1:23 FYC 06 To Kimiji 1:37 OST 08A Fleeing from Kijimi [0:00-1:33], with the clean ending from FYC 07 Fleeing from Kimiji 1:53 FYC 08 Hallway Shooting 2:11 FYC 09 Hard to Get Rid Of 2:19 OST 08B I'm The Spy [1:33-end] 1:19 OST 10 Join Me 3:42 OST 4A The Old Death Star [0:00-1:19], seguing into the revised version of the rest of the cue heard in FYC 11 [1:14-end] FYC 12 Off The Waterfront 1:03 (If you are feeling up to it, you can attempt to segue from the FYC's clean opening into OST 4B [2:21-end] instead) OST 12A The Final Saber Duel [0:00-1:05], with the full complete ending from FYC 13 Final Saber Duel 1:38 FYC 14 Healing Wounds 2:49 [0:00-0:31] seguing into the rest of the cue from OST 12B [1:42-end] FYC 15 Advice 1:54 OST 06 Destiny of a Jedi 5:12 OST 11 They Will Come 2:50 FYC 01 [0:56-1:28] Rey Arrives at Exegol OST 13 Battle of the Resistance 2:51 OST 14 Approaching The Throne 4:16 (FYC 17 features a slightly different choral ending if you prefer that) FYC 18 Parents 1:57 FYC 19 Coming Together 1:44 OST 15A [0:00-3:02] Seeing Sights, with the full clean ending from FYC 20 Seeing Sights 3:17 FYC 21 Rescue 1:10 (If you are feeling up to it, you can attempt to segue from the FYC's clean opening into OST 15B [3:02-end] instead, but you also have to restore the 15 seconds microedited out of the OST version at 3:16) OST 16 Farewell 4:27 OST 17 Reunion 4:04 OST 18 A New Home 1:47 OST 19 Finale 10:51
Alternates: OST 04A [0:00-2:21] The Old Death Star (Alternate) (2:21) OST 12B [1:05-end] Healing Wounds (Alternate) (2:52)
Concert Arrangements: OST 07 Anthem of Evil 3:23 OST 03 The Rise of Skywalker 4:18  
 
And finally here is a Google Doc with all this information, if you prefer to look at it that way:
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VWApmUMfiSF9gvXb3LW9QloZO-St-ITFMF-qYaNN0fw
 
 
 
Additionally, here's a theme list I started before the OST came out, that may be a bit outdated now, but hopefully I can keep it updated at some point.
 
 
 
01 Prologue (1:45)
0:08 Kylo Ren's Theme 0:43 Wayfinder Theme 0:48 Kylo Ren's Theme 0:57 Anthem of Evil 1:17 Rey's Theme 02 Falcon Flight (2:22)
0:20 The Emperor's Theme 0:31 March of the Resistance 0:48 March of the Resistance 0:57 The Rebel Fanfare 1:13 We Go Together 1:30 March of the Resistance 1:47 Hyperspace from TESB moment 1:53 Heroics 2:05 The Rebel Fanfare 2:09 The Death Star is about to blow up from ANH moment 03 We Go Together (2:10)
0:14 We Go Together 1:07 Rey's Theme 1:21 The Force Theme 1:45 We Go Together 04 In the Desert (2:26)
0:24 March of the Resistance 05 A Prisoner (1:23)
1:01 We Go Together 06 To Kimiji (1:37)
0:17 We Go Together 0:31 We Go Together 0:40 The Knights of Ren Theme 1:12 Rey's Theme 07 Fleeing from Kimiji (1:53)
0:00 Heroics 0:23 Kylo Ren's Theme 0:34 Kylo Ren's Theme 1:17 We Go Together 08 Hallway Shooting (2:11)
1:22 March of the Resistance 09 Hard to Get Rid Of (2:19)
1:29 The Emperor's Theme 10 Join Me (2:21)
0:57 Anthem of Evil 1:16 Kylo Ren's Theme 1:28 Rey's Theme (dark again) 1:53 Luke's Theme 2:07 Rey's Theme 11 The Old Death Star (2:14)
0:58 The Imperial March 1:46 Poe's Theme 1:57 March of the Resistance 12 Off the Waterfront (1:03)
  13 Final Saber Duel (1:38)
0:43 Kylo Ren's Theme 14 Healing Wounds (2:49)
0:40 The Force Theme 1:47 Leia's Theme 15 Advice (1:54)
1:18 sounds kinda like Rey's Theme? 16 Battle of the Resistance (1:54)
0:09 Luke's Theme 0:38 The Force Theme 1:19 The Force Theme 17 Approaching the Throne (4:16)
1:22 Rey's Theme (the dark variant again) 2:07 Wayfinder Theme 3:18 Victory Theme 3:33 March of the Resistance 18 Parents (1:57)
1:19 Kylo Ren's Theme 1:33 Kylo Ren's Theme 19 Coming Together (1:44)
0:00 The Emperor's Theme 0:11 Kylo Ren's Theme 0:22 Knights of Ren Theme 1:18 The Force Theme 20 Seeing Sights (3:17)
0:24 We Go Together 0:42 Rey's Theme (on piano!) 1:44 Rey's Theme 1:57 Kylo Ren's Theme 2:20 The Emperor's Theme (with bad-ass choir!) 2:49 The Force Theme 21 Rescue (1:10)
0:02 Victory Theme 0:39 The Rebel Fanfare 0:47 The Rebel Fanfare 22 Farewell (4:27)
0:13 Kylo Ren's Theme 0:48 sounds like a sad variation of Rey's Theme 1:27 sounds like a defeated version of Kylo Ren's Theme 1:44 Rey's Theme 2:35 sounds like... something? 3:32 Victory Theme 23 A New Home (1:42)
0:19 Rey's Theme  
Big thanks to @thx99 for first posting the link here.  Head over there and give him a big LIKE, will ya?

I agree with everything you wrote, except my favorite two parts of The ‘Burbs are the western theme (sometimes with musics gunshots lol) and the horror(?) theme (with organ). I love every last element of The Shadow and The ‘Burbs though, to be clear.
 
Yavar

Oh yes, the main theme in Total Recall feels like standard Jerry Goldsmith, whereas The Shadow feels more like Goldsmith unhinged. I particularly enjoy that secondary vague oriental sounding action motif / theme for Khan, and as mentioned already the love theme is nothing sort of exquisite.  
 
The Burbs is my favorite of his Joe Dante collaborations, both film and score. So much fun. I remember years and years ago stumbling upon the Square One End Credits on Youtube, and playing it nonstop like twenty times. Love the Patton reference, especially. 

I love all three central themes (plus assorted motifs!) in The Shadow. In contrast I dig the textures of Total Recall (but The Shadow has great ones too), but the main theme I think is really lame. Only good melody in the score is The Mutant and it only appears the one time!
 
Yavar
 
P.S. I also adore The ‘Burbs....maybe even more than The Shadow!

Depending on what day it is, it would be either Gremlins 2 or The Burbs. 
 
 
I prefer The Shadow over Total Recall as well. Sure the later has some incredible action and orchestral, but for some reason it's The Shadow I keep going back. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I can't get enough of that main theme, or the fact that I'm actually a big fan of the movie it's based off, so my love for that score is partially routed in that. The track Mirrors is an incredible piece of action writing. 

That family is so fucking dead