Pat_S
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Posts posted by Pat_S
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4 hours ago, Brónach said:
i always wondered, does JW choose the track titles for the original OSTs?
I couldn't say.. he must have some input though, considering he produces the albums
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I had a weird idea for a poll after noticing that Williams' OST album titles frequently contain the word Reunion. So I put together this poll with each one that I could find.
I'll be the first to admit that I've probably left out one or two of his older cues, but I'm not very familiar at all with those (and I didn't think many would vote for them anyway), but feel free to let me know what I missed.
And I know that Raiders is fairly different from the others, but I had to follow my own rule of the title containing 'Reunion', so sorry about that.
This is just for a bit of fun and for a weird way to compare different pieces.
And side note: I've just used the titles from the OST tracks, so I ignored original cue titles and expansions. So yes, the WOTW Reunion is referring to the one that appears on the OST. (I didn't want to list every version)
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2 hours ago, Jilal said:
R11P4 The Broken Bridge (TOD)
I’m pretty sure that The Walls Converge also appears. I don’t have the means to find the clip to prove my point, but I think it may have been 1:59 of
Feel free to correct me.
Aside, do you think the eel scene was temped with the Aliens score? I heard some similarities. I also heard some similar pizz strings ideas to Maleficio from Witches of Eastwick.
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Just now, GerateWohl said:
I think, it was a good decision to cut out the one and a half minute of black screen. Would have distracted the flow of the scene too much.
No, seriously. I am sure the scene would have been edited completely different for sure. With Williams' music the zoom to the stereo system makes no sense for example. But it appears too cheesy for me with Williams music.
That's a good point - that shot does seem to indicate that Miller intended for the music to feel more diegetic. I must say it doesn't bother me very much.
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2 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:
I have no clue what could've been in the original. Looking at it now it's hard to imagine another 90 seconds of more of the same footage, and the mood shift feels like something more significant was originally there. The music shifts to a distinctly magical, dreamlike state at 1:34. A dream sequence perhaps?
I thought something similar - the shift in music suggests some kind of shift, and the scene would have been incredibly monotonous if it continued any longer like this. I think all of the shots fit together quite well too - so having the movie transport us out of the ballroom somehow would make sense. I think this is a nice idea.
27 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:Great work. And I hate to say it, because this is one of the loveliest pieces Williams has ever written, but the scene works better with the Puccini.
Thanks! Why do you think so? I don't think I could conclude that without seeing the full sequence with Williams' music intact.
If only we had the sketches for this so we could get some idea of what Williams originally intended.
I also found the ending a bit strange - what did Williams intend for the little quote of the Witches theme to go over? Seems unlike him to put an important melodic idea over dialogue in this particular instance - the movie cuts it out. There must have been an extra shot there or something.
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I put this together quickly for anyone who hasn't tried it themselves.
I do wonder what that 1:30 of black screen originally contained - does anyone have any idea?
- GerateWohl, Docteur Qui, JTN and 2 others
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On 12/10/2011 at 7:29 AM, Incanus said:
Here is a preliminary list of correspondences between the cue titles and tracks on OST and boot.
1. 1m1 The Township of Eastwick (OST track 1, Bootleg track 1)
2. 2m2 It's Raining
3. 2m3 Darryl's Entrance (OST track 7, 0:00-1:35, Bootleg track 2 0:00-1:35)
4. 2m4 Must Have Been Dreaming
5. 3m1 Dropped Flower Pot
6. 3m2 Shop Lady Forgets (Bootleg track 3)
7. 3m4 What's In a Name (Bootleg track 4)
8. 4m1The Seduction of Alex (OST track 4, Bootleg track 5)
9. Dvorák No. 1 (the source music for Jane's concert?)
10. 4m2b Felicia in Hospital (Bootleg track 6)
11. 4m3a Suki Buys Flowers
12. Dvorák No. 2 (Bootleg track 7?)
13. 6m2 The Tennis Game (OST track 8, Bootleg track 8)
14. 7m2 The Seduction of Suki (OST track 6, 0:00-3:03, Bootleg track 9 0:00-3:03)
15. 7m3 The Balloon Scene (OST track 6, 3:04-end, Bootleg track 9 3:03-end)
16. 7m2a Felicia Flips (Bootleg track 10)
17. 8m3 Have A Cherry! (Bootleg track 11)
18. 9m1 Have Another Cherry! (OST track 9, Bootleg track 12)
19. 8m3 The Earth Erupts (Bootleg track 13 and 14?)
20. 9m1 Darryl in the Rain (OST track 10, 0:00-1:15, Bootleg track 15)
21. 10m2 The Reconciliation
22. 11m? Maleficio (OST track 3, Bootleg track 16)
23. 10m2 Inflicting Pain
24. 10m1 Relief for Suki
25. 10m4 Playing in the Kitchen (OST track 7, 1:36-end?, Bootleg track 2 1:36-end?)
26. 11m1 Sticking Pins (OST track 5, Bootleg track 19)
27. 11m2 Darryl Chokes (Bootleg track 20)
28. 11mX "I Wish I Knew" The Wild Ride Home (OST track 11, Bootleg track 21)
29. ?m? The Destruction of Darryl (OST track 12 (Alternate), Bootleg track 22)
In addition there are several rewrites and inserts Williams had to accomodate for the above cues. At least The Destruction of Daryl found on the OST is an alternate. The music for the church choir which Richard Dyer mentions in that above Boston Globe article is not among the cue titles I have.
I came across this thread just today, and thought I'd quickly correct a few things with this - no idea if anyone cares, but here goes. (Let me know if something doesn't make sense or is incorrect).
9 - this is the music that Jane practices on the cello before we transition to Felicia in hospital. The orchestra is mostly tracked out but enters briefly at the end (you can hear it at the very beginning of Bootleg track 6, from 0:00-0:23, which is the last 3 bars, the rest of track 6 is Felicia in hospital)
12 - yes this is 'The Seduction of Jane' track.
15 - technically the Balloon Scene starts at ~2:50 of the OST. This also uses '7m3 New Ending' (6:32 onwards)
19 - yes this is correct. Track 13 is bars 1-10 with the last bar repeated several times for fade out. Track 14 is from bar 29-end. There is a written pause between 28-29, so it is reasonable that the two parts would be recorded separately, but it is a bit strange that some bars weren't recorded at all. It must have been decided while recording that the transition to Darryl worked better without music.21 - this is the second part of OST Track 10 and the corresponding bootleg.
22 - This is actually incorrect. Confusingly, the cue titled Maleficio is not the same as the CD track. The cue titled Maleficio comes later before Playing in the Kitchen, and is the second half of OST track 7.
23 - this is the OST track 'Maleficio'.24 - this is bootleg track 17.
25 - see point 22. This is actually bootleg track 18.
28. Includes 11mAx New Start on the bootleg (first 10 seconds)
29 - now The Destruction of Darryl is a bit confusing. The version in the sheet music is the original (not the alternate as labelled on the bootleg). There is additional music written for the brief scene where Jane falls and levitates - which is a separate unnumbered cue (another ?m?), called 'Levitation'. The bootleg uses just the film edit though, so there are lots of bars missing. It is strange that it is not labelled as an insert, but instead a separate cue (this may not actually mean anything) - I have no idea what this scene was like when Williams originally scored it.
To break down the bootleg version of 'Destruction of Darryl':
00:00-00:39 - Destruction of Darryl (bars 1-28)
00:40-1:16 - Levitation (bar 1 is played for about half a second before it cuts to part way through bar 8. Then played as written until partway through bar 33)
1:16-1:34 - Levitation (bar 42-end)
1:35-2:35 - Destruction of Darryl (bars 29-68)
2:35-3:09 - Destruction of Darryl (bars 79-98)
3:10-end - Destruction of Darryl (bars 130-end)
The music cut from bars 98-130 doesn't fit with the scene anymore, since the scene is longer, but there is a brief silence in the film. It's likely that lots of stuff was cut because of special effect stuff, but I still would like to know what the sequence originally looked like.Needless to say, the version on the OST is just Destruction of Darryl.
So, reworking the list (correcting a few minor errors and ordering):1. 1m1 The Town of Eastwick (OST track 1, Bootleg track 1)
2. 2m2 It's Raining (unreleased)
3. 2m3 Darryl's Entrance (OST track 7, 0:00-1:35, Bootleg track 2 0:00-1:35)
4. 2m4 Must Have Been Dreaming (unreleased)
5. 3m1 Dropped Flower Pot (unreleased)
6. 3m2 Shop Lady Forgets (Bootleg track 3)
7. 3m4 What's In a Name (Bootleg track 4)
8. 4m1 The Seduction of Alex (OST track 4, Bootleg track 5)
9. Dvorák No. 1 (mostly unreleased, Bootleg track 6 (0:00-0:23))
10. 4m2b Felicia in Hospital (Bootleg track 6 (00:23-end))
11. 4m3a Suki Buys Flowers (unreleased)
12. Dvorák No. 2 (Bootleg track 7)
13. 6m2 The Tennis Game (OST track 8, Bootleg track 8)
14. 7m2 The Seduction of Sukie (OST track 6, 0:00-2:50, Bootleg track 9 0:00-2:50)
7m2 New Ending (unused)
15. 7m3 The Balloon Scene (OST track 6, 2:51-end, Bootleg track 9 2:51-end, original ending unreleased)
7m3 New Ending (6:32-end)
16. 7m2a Felicia Flips (Bootleg track 10)
17. 8m3 Have A Cherry! (Bootleg track 11)
18. 9m1 Have Another Cherry! (OST track 9, Bootleg track 12)
19. 8m3 The Earth Erupts (Bootleg track 13 and 14 (missing bars that were seemingly not recorded))
20. 9m1New Darryl in the Rain (OST track 10, 0:00-1:15, Bootleg track 15 (0:00-1:15))
21. 10m2 Inflicting Pain (OST track 3, Bootleg track 16)
22. 12mA Relief for Suki (Bootleg track 17)
23. 12mX The Reconciliation (OST track 10, 1:15-end, Bootleg track 15 (1:15-end))
24. 11m? Maleficio (OST track 7, 1:36-end, Bootleg track 2 1:36-end)
25. 10m4New Playing in the Kitchen (bootleg track 18)
26. 10m4/11m1 Sticking Pins (OST track 5, Bootleg track 19)
27. 11m2 Darryl Chokes (Bootleg track 20)
28. 11mX "I Wish I Knew" The Wild Ride Home (OST track 11, Bootleg track 21 (0:10-end))
11mAx New Start (Bootleg track 21 0:00-0:10)
29. ?m? The Destruction of Darryl (OST track 12, Bootleg track 22 (0:00-0:39, 1:35-end, partial))
30. ?m? Levitation (Bootleg track 22, 0:40-1:34, partial)
31. End Credits (OST Track 14)
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23 hours ago, Quppa said:
Just saw this on TV.
Saw this a few months ago in Aus when they were showing it in the Australian Open stadiums - it was a strange surprise but welcome.
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2 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:
Have you ever offered a raptor any meat, only for it to say: "Nah, you're
alright, mate, I'm full"?
Can't say I've ever had the chance to, no
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17 hours ago, BrotherSound said:
I didn’t think so! I certainly wasn’t expecting two CDs for this one. The most significant missing cue I know of is the finale, M36 Catch That Girl.Forgive me if this is a really silly question, but is 'Catch That Girl' just an alternate version of 'Linus' New Life' from the original CD? I'm not quite sure but I think the version on the CD is the one that appears in the film at the beginning of the video you posted? Linus' New Life doesn't match with the sheets but it has a lot of the same ideas. Sorry again if I'm being oblivious.
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I know there's been quite a bit of Temple of Doom stuff in here, but I really love this little bit from 'The Walls Come Down': (0:22):
The descending cluster chords are glorious, and playing in contrary motion to the ascending bass line, it mirrors really well the walls compressing in on the characters. And of course, the piccolos that are marked 'highest pitches ad lib. like a bunch of bees' in the score. It might seem over the top, but that doesn't bother me
This whole cue is just great.
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22 hours ago, artguy360 said:The thread title says it all. I remember listening to the HP3 soundtrack before seeing the film and being struck by how different it sounded. The period instruments, the period sounding music, the almost diagetic sound, the lack of re-use of existing themes, HP3 sounded so different from the first two scores.
Of course, the film is quite different from the first two movies as well, but in many ways the HP3 score doesn't just sound different from the first two HP scores, it sounds different than JW's usual full orchestral sound.
Do we know anything about how this came to be? Why such different musical decisions were made? I can't find my copy of the La La Land release to read the liner notes, does it reveal anything about the scoring process? Can anyone direct me to any interviews on the matter?
Some quotes from the liner notes from Cuaron that may be of some use to you:
'John composed 'Double Trouble' during the production of the film as we decided that a children's choir would be a warm welcome back to Hogwarts. The theme, a melodic, mischievous close cousin of 'Hedwig's Theme', composed around text from Shakespeare's Macbeth, became the foundation stone for the rest of the film score. Its medieval color became the musical identity of the wizarding world in this installment of Harry Potter'
'I wanted to channel the music into a little bit of a new place and when I spoke with John about going in that direction, he was very intrigued, I believe he really loved the challenge of applying this very modern, somewhat abstract approach to Harry Potter. It was very liberating.'
'We decided not to wallpaper the film with music. And I told John that I didn't want descriptive music throughout, but instead I wanted the score to not just be a narrative device, but to capture the emotional undertone of the whole thing, almost like it's the consience of Harry Potter. When I started hearing the pieces John composed, it was incredible. For a composer who has given us so many of the most famous melodies in cinema, it's amazing how atonal and experimental he can become.'
'We wanted to capture the specific locale of Hogwarts as a timeless place in the British Highlands. So we could not just go with contemporary 20th century music - that was the emotional aspect of it. But we also saw Hogwarts as part of Harry's character, and John strongly felt we should embrace the Englishness of the place'
Williams: 'Alfonso had several scenes with ... Sir Cadogan, a fully dressed noble horseman who wafted through the castle. So the perfect thing to score this, we thought, was a kind of medieval band. I contacted a group in London who specialise in music of this period, got their list of instruments and I was able to sprinkle the use of these instruments here and there with our concert orchestra'. (The group is The Dufay Collective)
- Edmilson, Loert, Not Mr. Big and 5 others
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16 hours ago, Goldfingers said:
"Stick with me" has always been associated with Captain Hook. Originally, it was a song sung by Captain Hook to convince and to manipulate Jack to become a pirate. If the theme is important in 8M3 Smee Steals The Show (Smee's Plan) is because Smee have that idea in that scene. The reason the title is Smee steals the show, it's because in the original script (and I don't know if it was filmed), Smee prepares Captain Hook to go sleep and takes Hook costume piece by piece while he shares his idea. The end of that scene was with Smee dressed as Captain Hook admiring himself in a mirror. He literally steals the show, not only verbally.The reason they replaced "Low Below" theme by "Stick with me" in the final cut is because the scene is now completely focused on the Hook. And not on Smee and the pirates anymore. Even if it is Smee who holds the hook, the main character of the scene is the Hook. The only shots left in the scenes focus on the hook, and the scenes where the prostitutes call Smee only serve to indicate to the viewers that the guy holding the hook is Smee.
Thanks for those details, was not aware of that. Where did you find the info about the song's original intentions? Is it on the forum somewhere?
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Sorry that I'm a bit late to the party, thanks very much for the mockup, it's very interesting. I wasn't even aware that the orchestrations for this cue had even leaked before.
On 01/02/2023 at 6:44 AM, ragoz350 said:I also noticed how the role of Stick with me increased in the final versions of the cues. In addition to the 5M5, there's 8M6New Hooks Lesson (original is unknown?), and a small insert for 15M2 The End of Hook. Plus the opening of 5M6/6M1 Hook's Entrance may also be an insert (or some material cut)...
This is very interesting. The thematic meaning of Stick With Me has always confused me a little, whether it was to act as a proper theme for Hook (with the more versatile motif present in 4M1 Hook is Back acting as additional melodic material), or a theme for Smee. There are lots of uses of this theme in the film that could go either way, but given these inserts, it pretty much confirms for me that Williams originally intended for it to be associated with Smee, and then, maybe at Spielberg's discretion (?), it was reworked to be used more in the film in association with Hook. It always seemed strange to me that Williams would want to use two different melodic ideas for one character anyway, I feel he is usually more resourceful (Edit: I now remember that Superman kind of fits this description), and that he would use the theme in association with both characters seperately, which isn't very good musical storytelling. The main 'non-insert' moment that I can think of that conflicts with this is when Hook threatens Peter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apjqPhzRG54), but I'm going to conclude that Williams is just using Stick With Me here since the Hook motif wouldn't have fit in such a satisfying way. A similar thing applies to Hook's Entrance - I don't think the Hook motif would have fit well over the shouts of 'Hook!'. I think with 8M6, Williams is just reprising the theme because Hook is enacting Smee's Plan from the 'Stick With Me' scene. There are a few moments that don't fit though, like when Jack is about to receive his earring. Do you guys agree? Hopefully I'm making sense.
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19 hours ago, Jay said:
Oh wow, I'm shocked they'd do Home Alone anywhere without live choir!
That's one of my favorite LTP shows!Loved it when I saw it too - just wished that the movie was less funny so the audience made less noise during the trap sequence so I could more easily pay attention to the score
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On 27/1/2023 at 7:31 AM, Jay said:
I think Azkaban only tours where a choir can be booked
From what I understand the choir parts are performed by Synth Voices if there is no live choir (I believe it’s marked in the LTP score).
What is your favourite John Williams Reunion?
in JOHN WILLIAMS
Posted
If anyone cares, I'm happy to make more if I think of any