Foxfan 128 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I noticed the original CD has them inverted (violins on the right, brass on the left) and want to switch them back. Any free program that will do this?I don't want to endure any "deliberate creative decisions" on my John Williams CDs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 567 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I'm sure you could find some 30 day trails of Sound Forge, Adobe Audition or Cool Edit that you can use to do the trick.Or...Check out the following linkhttp://www.hitsquad.com/smm/win95/AUDIO_EDITORS/-Erik- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I don't want to endure any "deliberate creative decisions" on my John Williams CDs!You think you know better then John Williams? :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier 5 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Unless you are a conductor, does it really make that much of a difference?I certainly couldn't tell; if indeed you are a conductor, used to having the instruments that way, I suppos it might be unusual hearing them reversed, but surely, it cannot alter the music not the acoustics / recording itself? I doubt music is written for "strings on the left only". As long as the separation is correct (ie, the strings stay don't sway from one side to the other), I think the music can't be altered by this.Another question: how do you intend to switch those two instruments only? The percussion should remain on the right, shouldn't it? Can you extract instruments that easily with a free software, with only a stereo mix? If you can't, more instruments will move around, unless they are all mixed evenly.I'm pretty baffled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Olivier.Violins on the right is the time-honored set up for an orchestra.The reasons that this set up has indured is simply because it works, never change a winning team. If an error was made with Varese's mix of the album, then swopping the sound channels will be the easiest way to correct that mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Maybe the orchestra was behind john Williams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Now that makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 D'OH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendal_Ozzel 36 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Flipping channels is a a breeze in Audacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashinyobject 0 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Wear your earphones the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futuremartymcfly 0 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Rofl LOL, just too bad it flips everything else too, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxfan 128 Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 Thanks. I tried Audacity (copy and pasted each channel) and worked fine.There must have been a mixup on the Varese recording. All other John Williams scores have the instruments properly placed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendal_Ozzel 36 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 It's actually even easier than that. Just Open the track, click on it and "split stereo track," "move down" the top track (left channel), and then "make stereo track" again.But cut and paste works too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,239 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Olivier.Violins on the right is the time-honored set up for an orchestra.Stefan.The time-honored set up is first violins on the left and second violins on the right. Mixing them together is a younger practice ("invented" or made popular by Stokovsky, as far as I know), and by far not a standard for all orchestras. Furthermore, often enough conductors make a point of using a separated setup - even when the orchestra usually doesn't - because many composers expected it and wrote "effects" based on this.Marian - who hasn't been bothered by the Cowboys balancing so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I am shocked to learn that people actually listen to The Cowboys CD. Morlock- who has a CD-R and several recording of the suite, and never listens to the CD-R Morlock2- who really should get that CD, as it's one of the very few widely available JW CD he does not own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 i have the official c.d. and the bootleg with the extra LP tracks.I don't notice such things as inverted instruments.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulky 6 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Initial pressings of the Varèse release used a bad master, resulting in the errors mentioned above.However, subsequent pressings did remediate the issue.This posting by Mr. Thaxton does shed some light in identifying the faulty from the corrected pressings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I use Cool Edit Pro for my editing music... all though I downloaded it from LimeWire because I didn't want to pay the $400.00 for the program. However wouldn't Gold Wave the free trial version swamp channels for music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodMusician 56 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I use a program called MAGIX... it was $20 on sale at best buy and you can use that. It has that as an option button right on the main menu. Youcould probably get a demo for free, though the program is so cheap and yet does sooo much--I use it for all my editing now--it's kinda worth it.As far as orchestral set up, in college, We had strings in front , brass in back... so I can't really say much on such an issue... (although I think I missed the point)Not to mention I'm a violist... so I just sit in the middle... the only difference I've ever seen in set up is to put violin 1 on the left, violin 2 on the right; viola-cello in the middle with bass in the back still... and then brass... so I woudln't honestly know nor would I ever notice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Initial pressings of the Varèse release used a bad master, resulting in the errors mentioned above.However, subsequent pressings did remediate the issue.This posting by Mr. Thaxton does shed some light in identifying the faulty from the corrected pressings.If FAT is correct then I have a bad version.Bugger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier 5 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 How about the other instruments?Flipping the channels flipped everything, which means (to layman me, who couldn't tell the exact percentage of instruments spread about evenly in the orchestra) that to switch two instruments back to normal you switched 10 other instruments-- percussion, piano, harmonica, whatever, ...I'm still baffled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Well obviously on the faulty Varese discs all the instruments are flipped the wrong way round, not just the strings.It's just that's it's very easy to notice with the strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediwashington 59 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 As far as orchestral set ups go for strings, the generally accepted set up is (Left to right arch) Violin I, Violin II, Viola, Cello, and bass behind the cellos.To record a more full strings section, and especially to brighten the violin section if it is not large, it is common practice to seat I Violin, Viola Cello, II Violin, and basses behind. There are also times when John Williams will switch the viola and cello position putting the violas on the outside edge. The variations are endless. Under Dimitri mitropoulus, the Minneapolis S.O had second violins not next to the firsts, but behind them, than violas cellos, and the bases behind all the entire orchestra including winds. It's a variation of the standard set up, But one of the most radical variations is Arturo Toscanini when he conducted the National Broadcasting Company Orchestra. This set up has First violin, cello, organ in the center, violas, thn second violins with the basses on the far left behind the first violins and cellos. Percussion was placed far right and the harp in the center.So basically, the only problem that comes with music being backwards like that is when they put the stereo micing poision different from the mixer pan position of the close microphones. It's pretty obvious that the whole mix is seperated opposite and doesn't have that pan problem. anyway, interesting that such a critical error wouldn't get noticed by those people quickly.~JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,064 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I am shocked to learn that people actually listen to The Cowboys CD.Why is that?It's a good score.CD sounds fine to me regardless of which version I have. And I haven't checked to see which one I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier 5 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Well obviously on the faulty Varese discs all the instruments are flipped the wrong way round, not just the strings.It's just that's it's very easy to notice with the strings.Okayyyyyyyyyyyyy.Thanks, Stefancos!Now you've told me this, it seems I had misunderstood the initial message, because of its apparent focus on the strings & percussion. If it's a general switch, now I understand.Silly, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,239 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Why is that?It's a good score.Make that *very* good.Marian - happy to have both the OST and the suite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxfan 128 Posted May 1, 2006 Author Share Posted May 1, 2006 JediWashington, has anyone been able to figure out why John Williams sometimes inverts the cellos and violas at concerts? I remember two years ago when JW's Friday concert had the violas and cellos inverted, while the Saturday concert had them placed normally. That would be a good question to ask him instead of the traditional stupid question of (What is your favorite score? etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediwashington 59 Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Well, if there is a reason for the reversal of the order, I don't know about it. mostly I think it's to change it up a little bit, as it gets boring conducting in the same direction for cues and such.But there are other reasons for it. Violas don't carry well over distance, but sound loud close up, and placing them in front of the conductor always makes the conductor quiet the violas down. As a result, you rarely hear violas very well in live music. Putting the violas on the side of the conductor allows them to bellow a little bit more, I think. I'm not sure if that is why. I'll ask around about it and see what I can find out for you.~JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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