Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Isn't that the ascending motif that plays when he's riding to Helm's Deep? A trace of that motif can be heard right during his first appearance at Bree, and a bit more in the extended Journey to Rivendell.But perhaps it's a different theme... I still don't have ROTK, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Yes, but you can read notes right? It's in the FOTR CR booklet, so you should be able to positively identify it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Then it should be the one I described... *checking* ...it is. I actually identified that as an Aragorn theme in the Helm's Deep scene before the CEs came out.Much of the Amon Hen music is based on it, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Gimme a tracknumber and an excact time, please!Were is Incanus when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Heroics of Aragorn is a bit elusive motif. As it is connected so closely with the Fellowship theme it is really difficult to decide whether it is the Heroics or the Fellowship you are hearing at any given moment. The use of the motif begins in Fellowship in the scene where Aragorn is first seen in the Prancing Pony, first played by celli and then by rest of the orchestra (FotR CR CD 1 track 13 0:36-> and heard in earnest in 0;56->). Next and bigger version is in Nazgûl (CD 1 track 14 2;30-> the noble sounding string and brass line supporting Fellowship theme which could just as easily be a variation on the Fellowship material as Heroics of Aragorn although the latter would fit the scene as Aragorn has joined the growing fellowship). Next development comes in The Caverns of Isengard 0;15-> (in the brass this time) as Aragorn in saving the Hobbits. This one is a more broken down version of the motif. This music can also be heard as Aragorn is leading the Fellowship with Gandalf to the Bridge of Khazad-Dûm in Moria (CD 2 track 14 7;47->).The clearest version of the Heroics comes on Amon Hen (Parth Galen on CR CD 3 track 5 4;49->) which is basically built on this ascending brass line as Aragorn moves to defend Frodo against the troop of Uruk-hai. It can be heard throughout the rest of the track in different guises (one example 7;01->).This theme appears again in the TTT in many guises. Well this is my personal interpretation but on CR CD 1 track 6 The Three Hunters has an oboe passage that resembles Heroics motif as Aragorn finds Pippin's Elven Brooch (1;00-1;12). The use would be fitting for the scene and shows how interconnected Fellowship theme is to the Heroics. This has no confirmation from Doug Adams of course but he hasn't discussed all the instances where themes are used on all the tracks in his Annotated Score so I could be right or I could be wrong with this.Also Aragorn's motif is woven to the Elven music in ascending lines in TTT. CR CD 2 track 7 One of the Dunedain. As Mr. Adams says in Annotated Score: "Lyric soprano Isabel Bayrakdarian enters singing “Evenstar” over female chorus divided three ways. The line, which moves from voice to alto flute, combines the ambrosial vocal tone of the Elves with melodic contours directly out of The Heroics of Aragorn theme—including the crucial down-and-back-up figure" (3;06-> the flute melody).And again on CD 2 track 11 Arwen's Fate (0;00->) Sheila Chandra's vocal line consists of Heroics of Aragorn. As Doug puts it: "Though painted in Elven hues, the melody belongs to Aragorn—its contours are informed by the Heroics of Aragorn". theme."The biggest variation is heard when Aragorn finally rides to Helm's Deep (CR CD 3 Aragorn's Return) where the brass intone it triumphantly 0:26->. Here the theme returns to the heroism it had on Amon Hen. Shore deliberately uses this to reflect Aragorn's role and demeanor and development throughout the films.In Return of the King the Heroics of Aragorn is united with the Gondor in Decline to form the new Gondor in Ascension theme. This part of the Fellowship theme brings both Aragorn and Gandalf the White (in Fellowship) into the Gondor theme and adds that rising positive line to the end of the theme. This can be heard e.g. as Gandalf and Pippin arrive at Minas Tirith (RotK CR CD 1 track 12 5;07-> the rising brass line that is new addition to the theme is actually Heroics of Aragorn). And this is repeated when ever either Gandalf or Aragorn comes to the aid of Gondor. Gandalf the White (in the Fellowship) is similarly formed from the Fellowship theme as Heroics so this positive addition applies to them both. So these variations can be heard throughout the film.So there in short are some of the places you can find this motif. There might be many other instances I have not picked up or that I forgot to mention but I hope that gives some idea what that motif is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 That was very extensive.But i hardly got anything clear (not your fault) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Thank you, Mithrandir, I will check your findings when I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Looking at this thread i found this: MovieMusic.com said: Hi everyone, Question:So, Doug says on page 37 of the liner notes that the Grey Havens theme is a "returning" theme? How did I miss that, or am I forgetting something? Doug Adams:Good eye! It’s a little Easter egg, if you will. Gotta leave something to be explained in the book! You’ll see… though I’ll warn you in advance, it’s not as straight forward as other “Returning” bits of material. And i said: what?! Now hearing TTT right now... Just check disc 2 track 7 'One of the Dúnedain' at 0:23-0:31. It sounds like it. Will this be what doug adams means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 That passage you refer to is just a variation on Éowyn's (Shieldmaiden of Rohan) theme to my ears. And there certainly is no thematic connection to the Grey Havens or the things it represents in this scene. Mr. Adams also refers the Heroic of setting of the Shire theme as Returning theme so I wonder where this can be found. First I thought it was a typo but as Doug has revealed that he has left these small things unexplained in anticipation of the book they make sense. You really have to leave something new to be discovered in the book as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,646 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 The liner notes for the CRs are extensive, but they can't cover everything, not by far. I'm quite certain the book will have more surprises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 gkgyver said: The liner notes for the CRs are extensive, but they can't cover everything, not by far. I'm quite certain the book will have more surprises. Well, they would cover everything, if the book was not going to be made. BTW its good they are doing this because its adds value to the book. Incanus said: That passage you refer to is just a variation on Éowyn's (Shieldmaiden of Rohan) theme to my ears. And there certainly is no thematic connection to the Grey Havens or the things it represents in this scene. What about in ROTK disc one: 'Eyes of the White tower' from 2:43 to 3:23? Sounds like that TTT snippet and grey heavens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 What about in ROTK disc one:'Eyes of the White tower' from 2:43 to 3:23?Sounds like that TTT snippet and grey heavens.This passage is the Minas Tirith (Silver Trumpets) theme.And if the Grey Havens theme is "a returning theme" then it should be heard somewhere in the previous 2 scores. Otherwise Doug would have noted that it is "debuting" instead of "returning". And yes the Minas Tirith theme bears some resemblance to the Grey Havens theme. We could we onto something here Or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 This discussion is almost interesting. Manuel, since Incanus is Gandalf I guess that makes you Radagast. Which means "tender of beasts" in Adûnaic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 My fav character! (along with Gwaihir)shame he doesnt feature in LOTR appart from mentioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 The only thing I'm curious about: has anyone figured out where the Grey Havens theme debuts if it's not in ROTK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 The only thing I'm curious about: has anyone figured out where the Grey Havens theme debuts if it's not in ROTK?This might be a stretch, but I may have found it!! On the FOTR CR, track 4, "Very Old Friends". There is a spot where it gets really quiet and moody, and if you turn it up loud enough the background sounds very reminiscent of the Grey Havens theme, and then the full orchestra hits a chord that just put the picture of the Grey Havens in my head. It's toward the end of the track. Let me know if you think I'm crazy or actually on to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 That's weird that the Topic Starter shows up as "Indysolo." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 215 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'm pretty sure that Doug Adams said that the introduction of the Grey Havens theme is actually in TTT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 If it's TTT, I think it might be when Gandalf is talking to Aragorn about Sauron, just before we go to the Black Gate (this scene is only present in the EE). It's in The Heir of Númenor: 0:45 - 1:41. It's not really the same, but it really reminds me of Into the West somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 If it's TTT, I think it might be when Gandalf is talking to Aragorn about Sauron, just before we go to the Black Gate (this scene is only present in the EE). It's in The Heir of Númenor: 0:45 - 1:41. It's not really the same, but it really reminds me of Into the West somehow.yeah i hear something similar.I also think it could be: 'One of the Dúnedain' at 0:23-0:31.But incanus noted it was the Eowin theme. But the part starting at 0:28 sounds like a quick rendition of the grey heavens.What if its both? Heir of the Numenor and one of the Dunedain are pretty close tracknames Where is the scene when aragon says to eowng that there is another woman, and she thinks of arwen and the evenstar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 If it's TTT, I think it might be when Gandalf is talking to Aragorn about Sauron, just before we go to the Black Gate (this scene is only present in the EE). It's in The Heir of Númenor: 0:45 - 1:41. It's not really the same, but it really reminds me of Into the West somehow.Didn't Doug Adams even more or less confirm that at one point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 215 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 If it's TTT, I think it might be when Gandalf is talking to Aragorn about Sauron, just before we go to the Black Gate (this scene is only present in the EE). It's in The Heir of Númenor: 0:45 - 1:41. It's not really the same, but it really reminds me of Into the West somehow.Didn't Doug Adams even more or less confirm that at one point?He may have. I know he didn't come out and say where it was exactly, becuase he wanted to save that for the book, but he may have alluded to what guesses were closer than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Mr. Breathmask said: If it's TTT, I think it might be when Gandalf is talking to Aragorn about Sauron, just before we go to the Black Gate (this scene is only present in the EE). It's in The Heir of Númenor: 0:45 - 1:41. It's not really the same, but it really reminds me of Into the West somehow. That theme in that scene in TTT is the Fate of the Ring theme which turn into the Destruction of the Ring theme in the RotK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Hey guys read this comment by shore:There’s a theme that’s used in the very beginning of the film that has to do with the history of the Ring. Cause in the prologue is explaining how the ring was forged and all historical references to the Ring. And there’s a theme that’s used there that’s actually a Gondorian theme that you hear as the Fellowship goes through the Argonath and then into Amon Hen. We see ruined statuary of Gondor and you hear that theme. Now, most people read this comment, and believe he is saying that the Ring theme, is a Gondorian theme.However, I believe he is referring to the rarities versions of the cues, where the Gondor theme was used in the prologue, and in Argonath, but was replaced by the History theme.basically this:There’s a theme that’s used in the very beginning of the film that has to do with the history of the Ring. Cause the prologue is explaining how the ring was forged and all historical references to the Ring. And there’s a theme that was originally supposed to be used there that’s actually a Gondorian theme, originally you would have heard it as the Fellowship goes through the Argonath and then into Amon Hen. We see ruined statuary of Gondor and you would hear that theme. Gnome in Plaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Gnome in Plaid and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,646 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Wow, never realised this before.We wants it, we needs it .... bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 He's not talking about Frodo by ruined statue, he's talking about when the party goes by the Argonath in the boats. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,646 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 as the Fellowship goes through the Argonath and then into Amon Hen. We see ruined statuary of Gondor and you hear that theme.It's pretty clear he means the scene with Frodo.1) the stuff Frodo finds in the woods is "ruined statuary"2) the Argonath is not3) the Ring theme statement there is obviously tracked (or makes little sense anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I was actually referring to the Argonath, but I hope your theory is correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 The Shore quote we're talking about is from the EE commentary track, and Shore says these comments during the Argonath scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 And that alternate is on the Rarities Archive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Does anybody know, what the theme is that "theme" that is played during "A Journey in the Dark"? its played on the strings (with with mark tree) in the EE version, and it also appears later during Gandalf's talk about Gollum, and earlier, in the TE version of when the "Gates of Moria" are first shown.Also, what is the theme that is always played underneath the Namarie text? (Parth Galen, and The Three Hunters) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Does anybody know, what the theme is that "theme" that is played during "A Journey in the Dark"? its played on the strings (with with mark tree) in the EE version, and it also appears later during Gandalf's talk about Gollum, and earlier, in the TE version of when the "Gates of Moria" are first shown.Also, what is the theme that is always played underneath the Namarie text? (Parth Galen, and The Three Hunters)Do you have specific time stamps? I'm can't spot what you're referring to exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Its that rising motif:at 0:10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgu_GIvjjvMat 0:25: at 1:09: at 1:31: atleast they sound related to me the Namarie bit is within the last 2 minutes of Parth Galen and The Banishment of Eomer right after the Isengard theme statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 Doesn't sound like a theme, just rising strings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 ...You do know that this is LOTR right? every repeated note is a theme bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Not all your examples were related (namely the last one with the Pity of Gollum), but I see what you're getting at. The rising chord progression, while not a theme, is more likely just a common harmonic feature of the Moria music.As for the Namarie bits. I believe you're referring to the secondary phrase of the full fledged Isengard theme, often sung by the choir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Not all your examples were related (namely the last one with the Pity of Gollum).I actually got that timestamp wrong, its 1:31, not 0:31. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 1 I think the Seduction theme is appropriate there, as the One Ring has a new owner now, who is wearing it around his neck, and as we'll see it does eventually have an affect on him. Also, that arrangement sounds really lovely, and it's very possible when Shore wrote that cue, he hadn't come up with the History of the Ring Theme yet2 This is one of the really brilliant things Shore does in FOTR with the FOTR theme. He sprinkles it into the score early on, but in small pieces, with only one instrument playing it. You hear it on the horns when Gandalf rides, when Aragorn leads the hobbits out of Bree.... only when the whole Fellowship is assembled in Rivendell do you hear it all come together, fully orchestrated, played by teh whole orchestra. And only in Moria does it play in full glory, as the whole fellowship is together and called to action. After that, it gets fragmented again. Brilliant.3 Yup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 Rightyo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 1 I think the Seduction theme is appropriate there, as the One Ring has a new owner now, who is wearing it around his neck, and as we'll see it does eventually have an affect on him. Also, that arrangement sounds really lovely, and it's very possible when Shore wrote that cue, he hadn't come up with the History of the Ring Theme yetThe use of the Seduction Of The Ring theme makes sense because at this moment, Gandalf warns Frodo that the Ring wants to get back to its master, it wants to be found, so it will seduce Frodo in order for him to put it on and be found by the Nazgûl. Simple as that!In the good old days when everything made sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I really like the wordless chorus humming the theme as Gandalf makes Frodo aware of the power of the Ring. As Doug says in his book the Ring can't quite articulate its message to the innocent and resistant Hobbits so the theme does not have its customary lyrics. It adds a sense of mystery and slightly ominous edge to the scene. The Ring is slowly animating and exerting its will.Another brilliant gesture is when Gandalf reaches Minas Tirith and reads the account of Isildur and the seduction lyrics appears in the chorus when he picks up the Ring entranced but the theme is not present as the moment is part of history read by the wizard and the active power of the Ring is obviously not felt. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 What are you talking about? Gandalf is talking about the seductive nature and power of the ring. Shore naturally scores it with the theme he wrote for the seduction of the ring!And as for the Fellowship theme, well Jay put it best in words. It's just another instead where he teases the Fellowship theme as each of company's pieces are moving towards the purpose of the quest. Great statement at that too!I really like the wordless chorus humming the theme as Gandalf makes Frodo aware of the power of the Ring. As Doug says in his book the Ring can't quite articulate its message to the innocent and resistant Hobbits so the theme does not have its customary lyrics. It adds a sense of mystery and slightly ominous edge to the scene. The Ring is slowly animating and exerting its will.Indeed. It's such a lovely idea isn't it? Shore has a real knack for playing with different choral textures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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