Why are American orchestras...so....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So Maurice Murphy had a hand in the way the tuba's or the French horns sounded?

[Hitch 57]

Brass is more then just trumpets, josh!

mostly

That's a stupid comment to make. Looks like someone doesn't know his orchestra.

So Maurice Murphy had a hand in the way the tuba's or the French horns sounded?

I love it when you talk dirty

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You should hear me talk about Bassoons.

[Melange 446]

It's rather assumed that we're discussing Western music in this thread.

I had been. There are top class orchestras performing western music in China, Japan, Russia, etc.

[Josh500 1,615]

So Maurice Murphy had a hand in the way the tuba's or the French horns sounded?

You dirty sumbich!

That's a stupid comment to make. Looks like someone doesn't know his orchestra.

Looks like someone is too eager to post, he doesn't even read everything that's being posted here...

[Hitch 57]

Looks like someone is too eager to post, he doesn't even read everything that's being posted here...

I've a quota to maintain. And anyhow I have my advisors to read for me and they only show me the intelligent posts.

[Josh500 1,615]

Looks like someone is too eager to post, he doesn't even read everything that's being posted here...

I've a quota to maintain. And anyhow I have my advisors to read for me and they only show me the intelligent posts.

You should let your advisors handle the posting!

[Hitch 57]

I handle my advisors pretty well....sweaty work but it's got to be done

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

I don't how about American orchestras being inferior, but I have a feeling we, as a film score fans, tend to think that, because most scores are being recorded by union musicians, which means there is a lot of shuffling going on from day to day. They don't have a opportunity to create a personality, like LSO or NPO. It has more to do with the system than musicians.

To my knowledge, the NPO was a pickup orchestra drafted from the great London orchestras, including the LSO. Anyone know how "fixed" their lineup was?

I said the LSO brass section sounded so great "mostly due to Maurice Murphy."

I know that the brass section doesn't consist mostly of Maurice Murphy, thank you!

It doesn't consist mostly of trumpets either. In fact, there are many many brass parts in music which don't feature trumpets. How did Maurice Murphy improve those?

[Josh500 1,615]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The man asked you a question. I think he is entitled to a fair answer.

[Josh500 1,615]

Don't any of you know the meaning of the word "mostly"?

I said the LSO brass section sounded so great "mostly due to Maurice Murphy."

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And we are asking to further explain this.

[Josh500 1,615]

What's there to explain?

The brass section consists of horns, trumpets, (bass) trombones, and tubas. Most will agree that trumpets are the loudest and most prominent instrument of these, oftentimes dominating the whole orchestra. So, if an orchestra is lucky enough to have a first-rate trumpet player, the rest of the brass section (and maybe even the whole orchestra) will sound all the stronger. Of course, that's provided the piece we're talking about is trumpet-heavy in the first place, like most of the Raiders and Star Wars action cues.

Examples: Star Wars Main Title, Desert Chase, Revenge of the Sith, Bug Tunnel, etc.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

See that was not so hard, now was it?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Ah...but you see, the best brass player should not be playing loud. He should be playing in a manner so as to balance with the rest of the orchestra and the composers wishes.

It's very tricky too...especially when you have the louder instruments.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Blume.

Are you American?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Yessir.

[pi 0]

Ignorant original post.

No fact behind this silly opinion

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Why are Australian orchestras...so... laid back??

[John Crichton 4]

Aren't all Aussies?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Inaccurate stereotype. Australians are a very stiff and whingey lot.

[Mattris 416]

Superman March performed by the Sydney Symphony Orchestra:

A few cracked notes by the brass, but I like their style, and the tempo is good.

As for the topic: You're question is just an opinion - that I don't agree with. America's best orchestras (New York Phil, Chicago Symphony) are just as good as Europe's. I'm no expert, but from what I've heard, the LSO and New York Philharmonic are surely the best two orchestras in the world. Both play with such professionalism and confidence.

I liked the Boston Pops more when they had Tim Morrison as principal trumpet. He currently plays with the Hollywood Studio Symphony... probably in KotCS.

Maurice Murphy was playing too loudly in Raiders. And the fact that he was mixed too closely doesn't help.

[Henry B 50]

Maurice Murphy was playing too loudly in Raiders. And the fact that he was mixed too closely doesn't help either.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Why are Australian orchestras...so... laid back??

I'm seeing the Melbourne Symphony next week play "Space Classics" (Superman, Star Trek, E.T., Star Wars etc) Haven't heard them much, I'll see how laid back they are.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Why are Australian orchestras...so... laid back??

I'm seeing the Melbourne Symphony next week play "Space Classics" (Superman, Star Trek, E.T., Star Wars etc) Haven't heard them much, I'll see how laid back they are.

I bet you like that VB commercial.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Hahah.... Maybe....

Pity I don't like the beer itself!

[A24 4,345]

Don't know if someone already mentioned this but there's an old opinion that says: Europe has better string players, America has better brass players.

Everybody happy now?

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

The Wiener Philharmoniker are alternately praised for their supposedly unmatched string playing and their supposedly unmatched brass playing, so there you go... (the Viennese brass players are unique though at least in that they still use Viennese horns).

Speaking of which, the Münchner Philharmoniker should not be forgotten. They're outstanding.

[Josh500 1,615]

I think we should differentiate: orchestras that perform film scores and orchestras that only perform classical music.

As far as film music orchestras go, Hollywood Studio and London Symphony share the no. 1 spot, IMO.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Sure, LSO is fantastic and I'm a big fan, but what other great orchestras are there in Europe, anyway?

There are plenty of great orchestras in Europe: Germany has some of the best in the world (Berliner Philharmoniker above all, of course), but Austria, France, Spain, Netherlands and Italy too have some great ensembles. However, I find English orchestras to be absolutely top-notch.

I think American orchestras are great and some of them are absolutely the best you can find in the world (NY Phil, Chicago Symphony, LA Phil, Boston Symphony, Philadelphia Orchestra, San Francisco Symphony).

[pi 0]

I have never heard a better orchestra then the Chicago Symphony. I've seen in concert at least 50.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

As far as film music orchestras go, Hollywood Studio and London Symphony share the no. 1 spot, IMO.

A pick-up orchestra like the Hollywood Studio Symphony shouldn't even compared to the great established fixed orchestras. They're probably the best sight-readers in the world, but I imagine when it comes to extensive rehearsals and fine points of interpretation (which is usually done for the great recordings of great established pieces), they'd probably fare quite differently, because I don't think it's something they often do (as a group).

[TVG 0]

As a professional (European) musician I strongly disagree with the title of the topic. One important thing that is being overlooked is that orchestras simply evolve as time goes by. The LSO of today isn't the LSO of let's say the early 80's. Not worse, not better, different. The same goes for Hollywood players, who are equally good 'orchestral' musicians as all the rest. Most of those people get drafted from the Symphony orchestras of southern california if I'm correct (LA phil, Pasadena symphony, etc..) My favorite sounding orchestras are, in no partical order, the hollywood studio players of the 80's (E.T. for example), New York phil from the 60's, Cleveland orchestra under bernstein and the one orchestra which stays true to its sound, the Vienna Philharmonic.

And for your information, when the LSO records for something like a film score, more than ever these days, players from other London orchestras and free lancing players also play along, mostly in the brass section. And that's why I believe they don't sound as 'homogeneous' as they used to, too much different styles of sound mixed together. I'll take Hollywood over London at this point.

[MSM 126]

I do not know the BSO, but the Boston Pops is very "Middle Of The Road".

Average, easily digestible arrangements performed in such a way that they sound, nice...pleasant, but a bit bland and flavorless.

You realize it is actually the same orchestra with only different leaders?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, I actually mentioned that in this thread.

Your point?

[Hitch 57]

Well rigor hasn't set in....this couldn't have happened too long ago, Steef

[pi 0]

Listen to the album "Summon The Heroes" and then tell me the USA orchestra stink.

No Euro orchestra would have got this much soul out of the tunes.

Listen to the Brass! I mean come on, i just couldn't disagree more with this thread.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Listen to the album "Summon The Heroes" and then tell me the USA orchestra stink.

You might get a different opinion about US choirs though. Judging by that album alone, that is.

No Euro orchestra would have got this much soul out of the tunes.

That I don't see.

[Foxfan 128]

I think American orchestras are actually BETTER than European ones! Just like at the number of concerts they're able to play. American orchestras have different performances almost every week, many nights a week.

It seems European orchestras (and the Canadian ones I know from Montreal or Ottawa) need two weeks of practice for one program and they only play it once or twice.

[Josh500 1,615]

I think American orchestras are actually BETTER than European ones! Just like at the number of concerts they're able to play. American orchestras have different performances almost every week, many nights a week.

It seems European orchestras (and the Canadian ones I know from Montreal or Ottawa) need two weeks of practice for one program and they only play it once or twice.

What matters is not how much rehearsal they need, what matters is the performance. Anyway, it's a moot point.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

It seems European orchestras (and the Canadian ones I know from Montreal or Ottawa) need two weeks of practice for one program and they only play it once or twice.

More practice = better interpretations. Although it's rare for (at least non-principal) conductors to get several weeks of rehearsals for a regular concert (Günter Wand comes to mind), due to financial reasons. Plus, the number of performances of a certain programme hardly determines the quality of an orchestra.

But just for the sake of proof that this is a over-generalisation, take the Vienna State Opera Orchestra (the foundation of the Vienna Philharmonic). They perform *each day*.

[pi 0]

In most european orchestras strings still are made of gut wire not steel, this gives them a different, very un Hollywood sound - but yet allows them to play Rachmaninoff, and Tchaikovsky well.

Also European orchestras, and certain American ones, I know Emanual Ax as soloist, tunes to A = 441.

My opinion is if I want to listen to something brilliant I get an American Orchestra, for Rach and Tchiak I stick to Russian Orchestra (Michael Pletnev) but I find the

certain American orchestras to be way superior especially in the Brass and in overall virtuosity. The Boston Symphony at Symphony hall, it doesn't get much finer than that.

Perhaps only trumped by the Chicago Symphony.

Other then that I hold the LA Phil, NY Phil and LSO on par with each other - they are also the best sight readers. The Academy in the Fields easily provides the best chamber music recordings, they are stunning really.

For moody recordings I like Berlin Phil, and the Moscow Symphony with Pletnev are stunning (although very speedy tempo wise).

I feel like for Choral Pieces I still prefer the old Euro recordings with the usual suspects (Bach Mozart and Beethoven Masses, cantatas)

Interpretations are open to opinion, but quality - well there is nothing lacking over here in the USA.

[Josh500 1,615]

It seems European orchestras (and the Canadian ones I know from Montreal or Ottawa) need two weeks of practice for one program and they only play it once or twice.

More practice = better interpretations.

But just for the sake of proof that this is a over-generalisation

Exactly.

[Jeshopk 8]

Seeing the Boston Symphony Orchestra rehearse through new pieces for the first time almost perfectly, I'd have to say they are on of the very best. I smell bias.