Kevin 22 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm sorry if this has been done before, but I am curious on people's opinion. I have always felt that Princess Leia's theme, in the cope of John Williams general themes, is a bit overrated. I can't put my finger on why I feel like this. Maybe because the sweetness of the theme is a bit too sweet, and a bit too child like for the representation of the Princess. Or maybe it's something else. I much prefer the sweeping romanticism of the love theme between Princess Leia and Han Solo. The love theme statements in the end credits of Empire Strikes Back blows any performance of Leia's theme out of the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,378 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 You have bad ears, TheListener! Princess Leia's Theme gives the character more depth than she doesn't actually possesses. Thanks to the indefinite nature of music, I never deemed Princess Leia's Theme as 'sweet'. Heck, it's even used for Ben's death (or Luke's despair).Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm sorry if this has been done beforeI'm sure it has, but I don't know if we've ever had these two one-on-one.Anyway, Han and the Princess always gets my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,635 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Han solo and the Princess . The way it's used in ESB is just awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,100 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm not sure that I have a favorite between the two. They're both outstanding. I'd say I probably prefer the way the love theme is integrated into ESB's whole score, but the themes themselves are fairly evenly matched in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,332 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Leia's Theme, in whatever context, stands a good chance of excelling just about any theme you compare it to. It's easily one of the most amazing themes of film score history. Han Solo and the Princess is a great Williams theme. Leia's Theme in a league of its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 49 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Damn this is a tough one. The Han/Leia love theme is so staggeringly beautiful, and such an important part of one of the greatest scores ever written. Having said that, Princess Leia's theme is classic in every sense of the word. I'll have to vote Princess Leia's theme. But it was mighty close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 The Han/Leia love theme bit..especially in "Han Solo and The Princess". I've never really cared for Leia's actual theme that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,378 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Leia's Theme is in a league of its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,950 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 no comparison, Leia's theme by a light year. course the silly people here will vote the other cause they have ESB up their asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Is it bad that I can't hum either of these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,069 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Leia's Theme in a league of its own.Indeed.Without her theme, there is no Han Solo & The Princess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Leia's Theme is indeed fantastic, but it cannot stand against Han Solo and the Princess, which is one of the greatest themes ever written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Leia's Theme is really all there is to add any kind of dignity or grace to the character, because she doesn't deserve it. She's as much a whiny pain in the ass as her brother, and Han is usually justified in wanting to be rid of her in the first movie. By the second movie, she matures into somebody you don't want to drop from a high place.I'm biased because Leia's Theme is probably the most beautiful piece Williams ever wrote for the flute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 It's close, but "Princess Leia's Theme". I guess it would be considered the unofficial love theme of Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Leia's Theme is astonishingly beautiful, and overall it's probably the best, but I don't think anything surpasses the readings of the love theme in 'The Rebel Fleet/End Title'. Not to mention the great crescendo when Artoo opens the door in 'Clash of Lightsabers'. It's just awesome music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,818 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Can I choose 'Han Solo and the Princess concert version'?Because since it contains Leia's theme... IT'S PERFECT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,950 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Is it bad that I can't hum either of these?yes, your brain is cluttered with all that zimmer shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Well you said it yourself, simplest is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 51 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Star Wars is not "simple" in the same way Zimmer's music is. In fact, I don't find it simple at all. Where does this idea come from? Maybe it's the score's shorter length, or its strong unity of style. But simple theoretically? I think a lot of people listen to Star Wars on auto-pilot. "Oh, there's Luke's theme again, and here's the Force theme, and there's that Imperial theme, but it's not as bombastic as the Imperial March so who cares?" You have to really sit down and listen to this music. Find the counterpoint; and no, you don't have to know anything about music to do this. It's simple. Take the prevailing melody of a piece, then block it out and listen to the other parts. For example, Luke's theme surfaces several times in "Binary Sunset" on clarinet. Whenever you hear it, listen to the strings instead. Notice that they're not just accompaniment, but an integral melodic component of the music. This is the sort of nuance that I feel was diminished in Empire and Return of the Jedi and all but lost in the prequel scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,100 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 I agree wholeheartedly with your post, Henry, up until you start comparing Star Wars to its successors. While there are certainly major differences in ALL the scores' sounds, I wouldn't say Williams stopped or cut back on exhibiting his ability to write stunningly complex yet perfectly accessible contrapuntal material. The styles simply vary, and you don't like some of the newer styles as much. (Which is well within your rights, of course.)And Koray...I love ya, but I find it utterly laughable that you would decry the Star Wars scores for being overplayed and then comment that you can't even hum two of its more important and most gorgeous themes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 51 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 I'd compare it to Baroque vs. Classical. Baroque music, culminating in Bach, was highly contrapuntal, while Classical music was more vertical and chordal. Yet there was still counterpoint in Classical music; it just functioned more subtly and subserviently. Also, apologies if I came off as condescending. I was trying to cite a clear example for those who haven't studied theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,100 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 I'd say that's a moderately fair comparison, but I still think the distinction in the amount of prominent counterpoint is less clear-cut and profound than you make it sound. Perhaps I'll just use this as an excuse to listen to Star Wars yet again...just to be sure, you know. Wink wink. And FWIW, at least as one of the folks who has studied some theory, you didn't sound condescending to me. (Not this time, leastways... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 51 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Okay, I fully admit I made it sound too "clear cut and profound." Certainly there's remarkable counterpoint to be found in every Star Wars score. I guess I just meant to emphasize its constant nature in Star Wars. I like to listen to individual lines. I'm always wondering (or anticipating) where the bass is going to go or what color tone the woodwinds will provide. The sequel scores are so huge and lush that it can sometimes be difficult to find the intimacy in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,100 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,818 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 The sequel scores are so huge and lush that it can sometimes be difficult to find the intimacy in them.Sorry, sweetheart. We haven't got time for anything else. Pun intented Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin 22 Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 Quick question, would 'Luke and Leia' be considered as the Skywalker family theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,818 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 It's just Luke and Leia theme....and since neither shmi, anakin, luke (alone) or the birth of the twins have it, no, i dont think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Quick question, would 'Luke and Leia' be considered as the Skywalker family theme?There is no such theme. Sure, Luke and Leia are the Skywalker twins, so you could call it the Skywalker twins' theme, but it's not used often enough in the film. I think its primary use in-film is only when Luke and Leia discuss their relationship on Endor, and maybe when Luke and Ghost Ben talk on Dagobah, and of course the end credits and concert suite. It's a beautiful, sure, but I think it's really a blink-and-you-miss-it kind of theme in ROTJ. The theme would have been nice to hear at the birth of the children, but alas, like so much else, it was not to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,100 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Yeah...I always wonder why Luke and Leia doesn't stick in my head very much, and then I remember that it's barely in the film at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 And I don't think Jabba's Theme would work very well in the End Credits. Though I think it'd be cool as hell to have in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,100 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 I can imagine a theme like Jabba's being put to good use in Giacchino credits, but not so much in Williams credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,818 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 I can picture it:GLOAT!, the amazing giacchino end credits for Jedi now available!**itunes only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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