Controversial statements regarding Star Wars

[Kramer 0]

Let's see who wants to translate this:

Volver a encontrarse con la música de la película Star Wars (La Guerra de las Galaxias) tiene especial significado para el director Alun Francis, titular de la Orquesta Filarmónica de la Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (OFUNAM).

Y es que pocos saben, e incluso no sería exagerado calificarlo de secreto, que el músico galés trabajó al lado del compositor John Williams en la creación de la banda sonora del primer título de la trilogía fílmica que produjo y dirigió George Lucas a finales de los años 70.

Complete article here:

La Jornada

Also here:

[Datameister 2,044]

Google's translator made it sound like it was saying this Alun Francis guy worked with Williams to compose the score...

[QMM 4]

If you haven't translated it, how do you know it's controversial?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I was able to read that this Alun Francis was an alleged orchestrator for Star Wars, with maybe a suggestion that Williams was not wholly responsible for the music, but I cannot read the rest.

[ChuckM 1]

The Google rendition:

Back to encounter the music of the movie Star Wars (The Star Wars) has special significance for the director Alun Francis, head of the Philharmonic Orchestra of the National Autonomous University of Mexico (OFUNAM).

And few people know, and even not too much to call it a secret, the Welsh musician he worked with composer John Williams in creating the soundtrack for the first title of the film trilogy that George Lucas produced and directed by the late 70.

[Kramer 0]

If you haven't translated it, how do you know it's controversial?

I can speak the language.

[King Mark 3,631]

who?

[Diego 21]

"La Jornada" is a shitty newspaper anyway, I wouldn't believe anything they write.

[Ollie 1,059]

If you haven't translated it, how do you know it's controversial?

I can speak the language.

Then why didn't you just post a translation, considering most here do not speak Spanish?

[Kramer 0]

"La Jornada" is a shitty newspaper anyway, I wouldn't believe anything they write.

Let's overlook the credibility of the newspaper, the source of this information appears to be genuine (although I think Maestro Francis is full-of-it), you can also hear comments the narrator makes at a concert of Star Wars music with the Philharmonic:

Then why didn't you just post a translation, considering most here do not speak Spanish?

Well, you will get a translation if you're interested.

[King Mark 3,631]

That sort of thing might be true if Williams was a one shot deal who only composed Star Wars, but the rest of his work and his consistent genius speaks for itself

For example I could believe David Arnold had a lot of "help" on Stargate

I think this is just someone trying to cast doubt on something for the hell of it

[Diego 21]

I cannot overlook the crdibility of the newspaper, I don't want to go on about politics, since that's against the board's rules, but everything that newspaper prints is biased crap. It's the mexican left-wing equivalent of Fox News.

[Ollie 1,059]

No his answer tells me this is just another worthless post trying to discredit John Williams.

Nothing to see here, move along.

That sort of thing might be true if Williams was a one shot deal who only composed Star Wars..but the rest of his work speaks for itself

for example I could believe David Arnold had a lot of "help" on Stargate

If you listen to some of Nicholas Dodd's own works you might believe it.

[Kramer 0]

I cannot overlook the crdibility of the newspaper, I don't want to go on about politics, since that's against the board's rules, but everything that newspaper prints is biased crap. It's the mexican left-wing equivalent of Fox News.

I agree that plenty of newspapers are biased like the New York Times or the Boston Globe, and I also believe that this Alun Francis is a lying weasel, but check out the video, that comment doesn't come from the newspaper.

[King Mark 3,631]

Reaches for his Star Gate c.d....ah I see.

[artyjeffrey 20]

Well, then for that matter, back in '77 when I was 5 years old, I played the 5-note Close Encounters theme on my Fisher Price Xylophone, and John Williams was visiting the house... and the rest is history. C'mon, everybody chip in with their very own NONSENSE stories! :cool:

I remember once hearing that Williams lifted Yoda's Theme from this old 1940s Cary Grant movie. As someone before said, it's just the words of talentless, jealous people.

Go find what you like, then work really hard at it, then step back and be proud of it. Stop trying to constantly pout over someone else's greatness.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wrote the Nixon theme a full year before JW did!

[Quintus 5,399]

Third world shipment of worms dumped succesfully all over the board.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

Let's see who wants to translate this:

Volver a encontrarse con la música de la película Star Wars (La Guerra de las Galaxias) tiene especial significado para el director Alun Francis, titular de la Orquesta Filarmónica de la Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (OFUNAM).

Y es que pocos saben, e incluso no sería exagerado calificarlo de secreto, que el músico galés trabajó al lado del compositor John Williams en la creación de la banda sonora del primer título de la trilogía fílmica que produjo y dirigió George Lucas a finales de los años 70.

Just for the sake of it:

Facing again the music from Star Wars has a special meaning for conductor Alun Francis, member (or director...) of the National Autonomic University of Mexico Philharmonic orchestra.

That's because, as very few know, it would not be exxagerating to even calificate it as a secret, the Welsh musician worked side by side with composer John Williams in the creation of the soundtrack from the first title of the film trilogy produced and directed by George Lucas in the late 70's.

Bullshit

Or, as we say it, 'Y una mierda'.

The full article is a 'gem'. I could translate that if you wish (tomorrow)

He says that the official orchestrator (aka Herbert Spencer) does not know music or have musical training.

I had a :cool:

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

Or, as we say it, 'Y una mierda'.

Palabras más sabias nunca se pronunciaron en este foro :cool:

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Puta de madres!

[Morlock 11]

Third world shipment of worms dumped succesfully all over the board.

You call this successful? We used to have a lot more patience for crazy.

[Kramer 0]

Third world shipment of worms dumped succesfully all over the board.

I do agree that the UK is looking a lot like a third world country(I mean, killing a guy for walking back home?)considering that's where the person making the statements is from Wales and has only recently been appointed to a music director post in Mexico City... not to mention that most of his Principal Conductor or Music Director posts have lasted only two or three years.

[AI 0]

Nobody helped Williams with a damned thing.

End of story.

[Wojo 2,453]

I don't care who or if anybody helped him write it.

It was written, it is immensely good, and it galvanized me into a soundtrack nut.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

Puta de madres!

Spanish FAIL!

[Ollie 1,059]

I wrote Jaws in 1972 when I walked up to my toy piano and clanged the two famous notes.

I demand my royalties.

[Quintus 5,399]

There's a urban legend in England that says Adolf Hitler ghost wrote The Lord of The Rings, whilst studying at Liverpool University and that Tolkien was merely responsible for the English translation.

[Kevin 22]

Who are you going to believe: a Mexican newspaper or John Williams?

[Ollie 1,059]

I will also say, while there is no proof this man even worked near Williams on Star Wars, sometimes people think just because they were there as part of the crew or maybe offered a small idea, that they contibuted more than they actually did.

[Diego 21]

Well, this guy certainly thinks he contributed a lot. According to the article, Williams wrote 3 chords on an envelope for a scene with Princess Leia and told this guy to make it 4 minutes long, so basically this guy composed Star Wars. With Star Wars being my favorite score I guess I've been admiring the wrong guy. We should change to the Alun Francis Fan Network.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He should be swiftly put to death!

[TownerFan 4,983]

I will also say, while there is no proof this man even worked near Williams on Star Wars, sometimes people think just because they were there as part of the crew or maybe offered a small idea, that they contibuted more than they actually did.

Exactly. The orchestrators of the original Star Wars were:

Herbert W. Spencer

Arthur Morton

Al Woodbury

Angela Morley

Alexander Courage

John Williams

Only Spencer received contractual credit in the final film. However, no sign of this Alun Francis, who's certainly just the latest wannabe-famous-and-rich-musician who's trying to steal some credit for egotistical reason, at least judging from this delirious interview he gave.

[Diego 21]

Ah, but that's the thing, according to the article and very conveniently he was paid a lot of money so that he would take no credit and even more conveniently he was paid and even larger sum so he was not to score another movie ever again. Damn wealthy Williams, buying scores so he can take full credit.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Ah, but that's the thing, according to the article and very conveniently he was paid a lot of money so that he would take no credit and even more conveniently he was paid and even larger sum so he was not to score another movie ever again. Damn wealthy Williams, buying scores so he can take full credit.

You know, it happens all the time that orchestrators don't receive an official credit bill, but they're recognized (and paid) through the music cue sheets. That's the norm and that's how every composer/orchestrator accept to take any job. What is really dubious about Alun Francis' words is the procedure he describes, i.e. "I was paid lot of money to work on this and promise I would never write music for any film again". Yes, yes... WTF? Who is the serious composer who accept a thing like this? It seems Williams bribed an unknown guy and took all the glory for himself. And what about the work of all the other orchestrators who contributed? Seriously, all this story doesn't stand up one bit.

However, Francis says some very false statements, like Williams' official orchestrator was instead his agent and had that credit just for contractual obligations (!!), or that he composed all the score while staying at an hotel in London (Williams wrote the score on the 20th Century Fox lot where he had his office back then, near Lionel Newman's office).

Williams has always been very humble and modest, always ready to recognize the work of his collaborators and peers, so the story told by this guy is all more dubious. My own theory about this is that probably this guy was consulted back then to do some uncredited small orchestration work, but maybe he was rejected in the end.

Better this man has a good lawyer, because saying these sort of things in public generally has consequences...

[Elmo Lewis 6]

He should be swiftly put to death!

I'll try and interview him first. I'd like to check how much of this was made up by the journalist in question.

[scissorhands 16]

I don't think it's made up by the journalist. From what I know, Francis has been claiming the same in his concerts and interviews for over a decade now. In the YouTube video from the original post above you can hear the same story in the words of the host.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

See this is what happens when you don't give your additional music composers credit. Hans knows the correct way to steal credit.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I don't think it's made up by the journalist. From what I know, Francis has been claiming the same in his concerts and interviews for over a decade now. In the YouTube video from the original post above you can hear the same story in the words of the host.

That's it, he dies!

[Diego 21]

I don't think it's made up by the journalist. From what I know, Francis has been claiming the same in his concerts and interviews for over a decade now. In the YouTube video from the original post above you can hear the same story in the words of the host.

The video annoys me even more, it's like "Well, anyone can write a melody on a piano, but what Francis did, that's the real trick".