Your Top 5 Complete/Expanded JW Scores

[Ollie 1,059]

These lists are always the same usual suspects (aka mostly venerable hits we are still annoyingly without), but how about flipping things around and deciding what we DON'T need?

I'll start:

War of the Worlds.

I don't know, my list was pretty different from what everyone else wanted. But I'll play:

ROTS & AOTC.

[Diego 21]

These lists are always the same usual suspects (aka mostly venerable hits we are still annoyingly without), but how about flipping things around and deciding what we DON'T need?

I'll start:

War of the Worlds.

Stepmom, the complete recordings. Now that would have been a good Apri Fool's joke.

[Ollie 1,059]

In all seriousness, we don't need any expanded release of Williams' scores that are from the last 15 years.

We need all his scores prior to 1990 released first, while the masters are in good shape. Then we can worry about the newer stuff.

[steb74 53]

1. Dracula

2. Attack Of The Clones

3. The Eiger Sanction

4. Revenge Of The Sith

5. Midway/The Lost World

Honorable mentions:

The Phantom Menace, Indy IV

Unreleased:

1. The Screaming Woman

2. Family Plot

3. Checkmate/M Squad (TV scores)

4. The Rare Breed

5. The Plainsman

Of course it would be great to have the SW OT and the first 3 Indy scores presented in better shape and with less flaws but with what we do have I personally can't complain.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Checkmate was released by FSM along with Rhythm In Motion. I'd love more M Squad though.

[steb74 53]

Checkmate was released by FSM along with Rhythm In Motion. I'd love more M Squad though.

I have that but thought it was just a re-recording, I really want the music from the series.

[Wojo 2,453]

In all seriousness, we don't need any expanded release of Williams' scores that are from the last 15 years.

We need all his scores prior to 1990 released first, while the masters are in good shape. Then we can worry about the newer stuff.

Hear (there, and everywhere) hear!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Checkmate was released by FSM along with Rhythm In Motion. I'd love more M Squad though.

I have that but thought it was just a re-recording, I really want the music from the series.

Not according to the CD. It says "Two original recordings on a single CD" on the back, as well as "Music Composed And Conducted By Johnny Williams" on the front.

[steb74 53]

Not according to the CD. It says "Two original recordings on a single CD" on the back, as well as "Music Composed And Conducted By Johnny Williams" on the front.

The recordings are original, just not the actual series score.

From this page -

Checkmate/Rhythm in Motion (1961)

"Like similiar albums of the time, the Checkmate LP (which was entirely re-recorded) features a studio rendition of the main title theme, adapted underscore and source cues, and original compositions in the same style. Smoky, moody, melodic and cool, the the Checkmate record is a classic from the Peter Gunn and Staccato -era of TV crime jazz."

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Oh ho. Well then I wouldn't hold your breath for that to be released.

[steb74 53]

Oh ho. Well then I wouldn't hold your breath for that to be released.

I know man, it's a shame

I'm sure that I read something a while back, probably at FSM about the masters being lost, etc, I really can't remember to be honest.

However, when things like The Poseidon Adventure pop up, that have now been transferred from a better source than what was available when it was released by FSM, it always gives a little hope ........not bloody much but a little

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I would certainly buy remastered/complete Reivers, Cowboys, Dracula, Jaws 2, Earthquake, Midway, Lost World, A.I. and many others posted here. Most of them actually.

[King Mark 3,631]

I didn't think Family Plot counted, so it should be on my list

It's true that a lot of unreleased music from RotS has been released , so maybe I could put Dracula instead which has a lot of unreleased music

So:

1-HPSS complete (missing tons of great music,and no bootleg)

2-Family Plot (if it exists in Stereo)

3-Hook (boot is not as bad as the Indy ones but sound quality still deficient, and there is just a huge amount of music not on the OST)

4-AotC (still missing a lot of music)

5-Dracula

A few others I'd like to see:

RotS (yes we have 85% of the music but I'm sick of editing it a few seconds at a time)

HPPoA (not as much a priority as HPSS but missing a few great cues)

KotCS (again under appreciated, although we got the best unreleased music already)

1941 (we have most of the music from various sources but a proper edit of the complete score would be nice)

Return of the Jedi re-mastered

And seriously,very old scores like Daddy-O,The Plainsman...I don't really care. Screaming Woman isn't that great from what I've heard of it

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Nope. Family Plot is still more important than the prequels. A gem of a score by Williams in the prime of his career and mostly unreleased. I would rather have that.

Edit: nvm you saw reason.

In regards to E.T., we also need the music Williams did for the ride at Universal Studios. Those tracks, alternates, the original album remastered and Stargazers would round out a two disc release of E.T. quite nicely.

Temple of Doom is a frustratingly incomplete score. Thank God we got all those additional tracks, but I desire all of it.

Hook is arguably the most important complete work to get released officially.

Sorcerer's Stone is Williams' most important score of the last nearly 20 years.

[King Mark 3,631]

I don't think E.T. is a priority. The Lazerdisk cues exist and sound ok and the Universal Ride music would never be released with the score

A.I. :if you don't have a copy of the Promo is sucks for you but It shouldn't be a priority

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I'd rather have complete Sabrina than Prisoner of Azkaban, Attack of the Clones or KOTCS.

[King Mark 3,631]

Sabrina...wtf?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Now there's a score that's under appreciated. Not KOTCS. KOTCS isn't appreciated because it isn't that good, especially for an Indiana Jones score.

[indy4 155]

If I may intervene with the hand of reason--you guys are both wrong, Sabrina and KotCS are both great scores.

[steb74 53]

Sabrina...wtf?

Ha

Now there's a score that's under appreciated. Not KOTCS. KOTCS isn't appreciated because it isn't that good, especially for an Indiana Jones score.

Well it certainly is to me, much, much more than Hook, which is arguably my most least important complete work to get released officially.

For me, I might put Sorcerer's Stone in the 16-20 bracket of importance but I don't think it's Williams' most important score of the last nearly 20 years in the least.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What do we really need from KOTCS? The embarrassing Mickey Mousing Home Alone-esque action music? More boring cave/temple music or do you think Williams devoted enough album time to that already? We need like two tracks, the concert version of Marion's Theme (which probably wasn't even recorded with the score, so forget that) and maybe the part where Indy gets on the train? Even that probably wouldn't be as nice as I remember it in the movie.

[John Crichton 4]

The more I listen to Indy 4,the more I think that the complete Jungle Chase isn't the best unreleased cue, it's the complete warehouse sequence. In fact the first part of the score is the best, it's all downhill after Indy and Mutt arrive in Peru.

I'm sure there's more great gems I don't know much about either. If it was for the new release of Images a few years ago, I'd have no idea of it's greatness. It's among my favorite Williams scores now.

[Ollie 1,059]

If you want unreleased music from KOTCS just listen to AOTC & ROTS. It's all the same minus the themes and choir.

[John Crichton 4]

[steb74 53]

What do we really need from KOTCS?

Ha, we don't but I'd certainly like the complete score, simple really

The embarrassing Mickey Mousing Home Alone-esque action music?

Well, what can I say if you think Hook is arguably the most important complete work that needs to get released officially?

Now that's a 'Mickey Mousing' masterclass ......even though I really hate that bloody phrase.

More boring cave/temple music or do you think Williams devoted enough album time to that already?

Perhaps boring to you but I can't get enough of it, sorry if that bothers you

We need like two tracks, the concert version of Marion's Theme (which probably wasn't even recorded with the score, so forget that) and maybe the part where Indy gets on the train? Even that probably wouldn't be as nice as I remember it in the movie.

Again, simple! Don't worry about it or just forget about it and move on ....easy.

I'm sure there's more great gems I don't know much about either. If it was for the new release of Images a few years ago, I'd have no idea of it's greatness. It's among my favorite Williams scores now.

Rightly so, it's magnificent.

Lately, I keep going on about The Screaming Woman which I think you may end up feeling the same way about if an official release happens, it really is great!

If you want unreleased music from KOTCS just listen to AOTC & ROTS. It's all the same minus the themes and choir.

You're absolutely right man .....well, apart from the fact that to somebody who enjoys those 3 scores very much, there's are huge difference in them

[Ollie 1,059]

You know you can't pull that with me.

[steb74 53]

Yeah, well you two are ok .......now that you've met Williams!!! Got your SW covers signed!!!!!!!

[John Crichton 4]

But it's still true.

[Datameister 2,047]

If you want unreleased music from KOTCS just listen to AOTC & ROTS. It's all the same minus the themes and choir.

Sure, if all you listen to are specific action sequences. That's also true of passages from Star Wars and Raiders...E.T. and ROTJ...CE3K and all of the above...Williams has never been capable of maintaining completely distinct sounds in different scores.

Not that his work hasn't gotten more homogeneous in recent years, but still.

[Ollie 1,059]

I'll spare you the Luthor picture but you couldn't be any more wrong.

[John Crichton 4]

The prequels have much more flair than anything in Indy 4. Williams was still into it then. Indy 4 just sounds like, and I hate saying this but it's what I believe, that it was written by an old man.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

There's a word for that sound, it's called style.

[Ollie 1,059]

E.T.,Jaws, Star Wars, TESB, Raiders, CE3K, TOD, Superman, Jaws 2, The Fury, Dracula, ROTJ, to start with, all have a unique sound that makes them different. Aside from the shark theme, Jaws 2 sounds nothing like Jaws, TESB sounds nothing like Star Wars, Nothing Williams has done has ever come close to sounding like E.T.

[Datameister 2,047]

Really? Which part am I so wrong about? 0:34 in "Escape from the Temple" being similar to 5:56 in "The Battle of Yavin"? 5:35 in "Sail Barge Assault" being similar to 5:34 in "Far From Home / E.T. Alone"? (Goodness, the track times even match...) I admit that I was exaggerating with CE3K, and that I'm not sufficiently interested in the score to search out specific track times right now, but it's still firmly grounded in Williams styles of the time.

Don't mistake me for someone who thinks Williams is a hack just because of the inevitable borrowing that happens occasionally. I've written music - I know how freaking hard it is to come up with stuff you haven't heard before, either from yourself or from other composers. And as I said, Williams' styles have gotten much more homogeneous (and less interesting to me overall) over time. I'm just saying that it's not like he never wrote any passages that were interchangeable until the 2000s.

EDIT: This post was written in response to your previous post. In response to this more recent one: yes, you're absolutely correct. Then again, KOTCS and AOTC sound like different scores, too. The difference is not as great - and the material isn't as amazing in either - but the differences are there.

[Ollie 1,059]

I don't think anyone here thinks Williams is a hack, I don't know where you got that one from.

My point was that there was a time when each score had a unique voice to it. Nowadays they rarely do. It's something I've mentioned previously over the years. And Williams isn't the only composer who is "guilty", Goldsmith, Bernstein to name a few, all eventually got to a point where their music became interchangeable.

The prequels have much more flair than anything in Indy 4. Williams was still into it then. Indy 4 just sounds like, and I hate saying this but it's what I believe, that it was written by an old man.

I actually enjoy KOTCS (score) more than the prequels.

[steb74 53]

For me, interchangeability isn't even an issue and to be honest if I couldn't find any similarities in a composers body of work, I'd probably be very disappointed.

So any kind of 'hack' issue is nonexistent for me.

These scores that were used as an example - E.T.,Jaws, Star Wars, TESB, Raiders, CE3K, TOD, Superman, Jaws 2, The Fury, Dracula, ROTJ, of course have individual identities but at the same time share so many melodic, harmonic, rhythmic gestures which can be easily spotted but that doens't change how great they are though.

I think these similarities are only a bother or an issue when a person isn't particularly interested in a score.

Another big thing that I think seperates the more vintage years than the present day is that the actual recordings sound so different, each of the recordings above has it's own recorded identity, whereas now the actual orchestral sound is pretty consistent but that has nothing to do with the actual written music but does seem to affect the perception of it.

[Ollie 1,059]

Well naturally there is a difference between a composer's style and the individuality of a score.

And technology hasn't done any favors to some recording venues. The LSO sounds flat compared to years past.

[Datameister 2,047]

The issue of sound quality is an interesting one. I'll be honest - I really like hearing the prequels in the LSO's bright "modern" sound. But when I hear re-recordings of the older stuff that I'm used to hearing with that harsh, enthusiastic 70s/80s sound, it's just...disappointing. Makes me wonder what I - or we - would think of the prequel scores if they'd been recorded in 1980.

[Trent B 337]

I too like the way how the Prequels sound, they sound just fine to me.

I'm sure though if the master tapes for The Original Trilogy scores had been kept up in good condition, when they were released in complete form they probably would have sounded great.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I doubt we'll ever see a thoroughly complete release to Hook any time soon. It's a Spielberg/Williams film, and if any expanded release came about, it would most likely come through a bigger commercial label like Sony and most probably be produced by Laurent Bouzereau, who often calls upon Williams' input, and is then forced for whatever reason to leave entire passages out that people have wanted for years.

Same goes for 1941 and Jurassic Park.

[Trent B 337]

I'm sure one of our labels is trying to work on getting Hook to us. I'm betting in time it'll come. I hope Laurent Bouzereau is never involved with that project for Hook. Heaven forbid, he'd leave off an important cue.

[Richard Penna 3,703]

Bouzereau was the one who campaigned for more music though. And when the liner notes say "some cues were dropped because they didn't fit the music storytelling", he's really saying is "Williams didn't want these cues included and I've got to come up with a more sensible reason for him".

I'd be interested to know how involved Williams was with Home Alone 2 from Varese. Either he wanted the full score out there, or Townson was more persuasive than Bouzereau.

it would most likely come through a bigger commercial label like Sony and most probably be produced by Laurent Bouzereau, who often calls upon Williams' input, and is then forced for whatever reason to leave entire passages out that people have wanted for years.

The sad thing is that this type of problem isn't solved by just going through a speciality label. Roger at Intrada has said that Williams personally prevented a release of Sugarland Express.

I hope they still rescued the tapes from inevitable decomposition anyway...

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I wonder if it's down to his relationships with Spielberg and Lucas. I mean, the SW music rights rest with Lucasfilm, and potentially there could be some rights that lie with Amblin/Spielberg, or at least an approval process which would mean JW has to vet releases for Spielberg movies, such as SUGARLAND. I mean, some have made it out, like SUPERMAN, JAWS (complete but out of order), BLACK SUNDAY. Maybe Lukas could shed some light on whether JW was involved with any of their releases, or at least had any input.

[publicist 4,643]

Maybe Lukas could shed some light on whether JW was involved with any of their releases, or at least had any input.

From what i could gather, it works simple: either the company involves the composer or they don't. Since Williams holds no music rights there is no sensible reason why he has to be involved - but when you wake the sleeping lion, you'll have to stick to him.

A good example is STAR TREK (Sony) vs. POLTERGEIST (Rhino). Goldsmith complained bitterly about the POLTERGEIST/Rhino having too much music and that he wasn't even asked. On STAR TREK, they asked him - and see what happened: the release was delayed till the cows came home and Goldsmith vetoed a complete release, so they put the old goofy record on the second cd. As far as i remember, Goldsmith even fought a short cue called FLOATING OFFICE, which was a last minute inclusion.

BL: C&C collectors should tremble in fear when the name WILLIAMS is connected to a new release...

[Ollie 1,059]

I believe it was Ford Thaxton who mentioned Goldsmith had to approve each cue in writing for the deluxe TMP release.

I vaguely remember a post that I believe was by either Mike Matessino or Nick Redman, commenting on Williams' lack of involvement for the RCA special editions. I believe it's buried somewhere over at FSM.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The most desirable action music JW composed in the 2000's is the duel from ROTS. That was more like the JW who did the original trilogy, Indy 1-3, Hook, etc.

Lately I've been craving everything prior to the 2000's. I listen to his stuff from the 70's and 80's (90's is more hit and miss in my experience) and there's so much more going on and I'm usually much more entertained. I want more releases like Black Sunday, Poseidon Adventure, Images, etc.

[Ollie 1,059]

Well like I said, I prefer the labels concentrate on releasing Williams' work prior to the 90's first.

Then they can do the newer stuff.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

The more releases this year the better. All I know is that I will purchase any Williams release (even if I shouldnt be spending money.) He is the only composer that I will continue to do this for.

[King Mark 3,631]

. As far as i remember, Goldsmith even fought a short cue called FLOATING OFFICE, which was a last minute inclusion.

that's the coolest cue in the score

[Richard Penna 3,703]

There's no one I can purchase all releases blindly from. Even the best composer doesn't write gold all the time, and there's no point in having music in your collection that you don't listen to.

In an imaginary world in which every JW score was released complete, the only ones I would pick up would be Potter 1 - 3, the Jurassics, Hook and maybe RotS. I'm just not very interested in most of his earlier stuff.

Has anyone else noticed it seems to be the 'old school' composers (Horner, Williams, Goldsmith) who keep a tight reign over how their music is presented, and for most others it seems to be the barriers to release that annoy them? I guess the lack of Internet when the old-schoolers were truly active is one factor.