AOTC a reflection of time.

[Taikomochi 1,145]

A true standard hater post, it gets old.

2) The whole mystery plot with Obi Wan was great, really great in my eyes. We got to see one of the most interesting planets ever Kamino, saw even more of Coruscants civil life (dinner), had the cute younglings scene...and you have the cool action scenes with Jango and Boba Fett

[Demodex 557]

AOTC is the biggest disappointment of the prequels for me. The plot and dialogue could have all been handled much better. I totally agree with the people saying that the only thing special about it is that it is a STAR WARS movie. There is absolutely nothing else special about it.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The way I understand this is that every single villain in the prequels is a foreshadowing of Darth Vader. You have Darth Maul's rage, Count Dooku's charisma and the last missing part was a cyborg thing. So they introduced Grievous. Yes, I know. It's still lame.

Karol

"It's like poetry. They rhyme."

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Caught the last half hour of ROTS yesterday.

Baaad!

[Quintus 5,399]

I've seen Sith precisely once. It was quite enjoyable, compared to the other two.

I won't "do an Alex" and return to it, since not only would that most likely be counterproductive, but also a complete waste of my time.

[Ollie 1,069]

They should have had one Sith to accompany Palpatine up until ROTS, and then let Anakin kill him/her/it. That way if the death occurred early in the film it would have had more of an impact.

[John Crichton 4]

I still find RotS a more enjoyable movie than Return of the Jedi.

[Ollie 1,069]

I flip flop.

[Quintus 5,399]

Between the movies or around your house?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I stuck around mainly for the big duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan. It's not very good. Neither actor can convince me that they are anywere near lava, there is far to much stuff happening in the back ground, and the choreography of the fight is not very good.

Lucas never managed to beat the big sword fight in TPM.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

Probably just another case of fanboy expectations and setting the prequels up to fail by already having the story made up in your head, but ever since I got A Guide to the Star Wars Universe as a child, I thought Ben and Vader fought near a volcano or molten pit. Not a whole planet of lava! The scene was like a parody. I was very disappointed. I always thought Yoda was just trying to drive it into Luke's head to stay away from the dark side when he talked about the dark path and it forever dominating your destiny. Vader turned back to good, so maybe it was just a lesson for Luke. After all, Yoda does say "there is another" hope. Maybe he meant that Anakin could return.

But in Episode III, Yoda rather coldly sends Obi-Wan to kill Anakin. "Gone he is. Destroy them, we must." Gee. I also assumed that Ben thought Vader had died and in that scene on the Death Star, he was truly shocked to see him/it. He fell into a molten pit or something and it seemed there was no way he could survive. In the movie, he is badly burned, but on a populated planet and whereabouts known to the Empire. They passed by inhabitants while riding the lava. Anakin had the Force. He should have figured Anakin could use that to will someone to help him and that the Emperor would send guys for him or even with him. He should have ended his suffering. But it was the will of the Force, I guess.

[Quintus 5,399]

No, Steef is right: the duel between Anakin and Ben is artificial. Souless.

Just for the hell of it; compare it to the drama and suspense of the equally monumental scene with Frodo and Sam at the fiery Crack of Doom.

During those moments, did people really care for Anakin and Ben as they did for Frodo and Sam? No.

[John Crichton 4]

Lucas never managed to beat the big sword fight in TPM.

That is true.

The Anakin/Obi-Wan duel would have played better if there was no dialogue during the fight itself.

[Jacob 0]

During those moments, did people really care for Anakin and Ben as they did for Frodo and Sam? No.

This fan cared a lot.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

Who the hell really cared about what was going on in the fight in Episode I? It was all sound and visuals with lame-o boring characters. They're behind those energy walls and no one even talks? That drove me nuts.

[Red 75]

Lucas never managed to beat the big sword fight in TPM.

That is true.

The Anakin/Obi-Wan duel would have played better if there was no dialogue during the fight itself.

It would have played better if it wasn't 45 minutes long.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

Even though it's generally ludicrous, the best part is when they stop fighting to dodge the falling embers on that bridge, then the bridge collapses and they ride the stream. But then it just gets worse and worse from there.

[Faleel 5,447]

Who the hell really cared about what was going on in the fight in Episode I? It was all sound and visuals with lame-o boring characters. They're behind those energy walls and no one even talks? That drove me nuts.

they didnt talk in ESB, and besides who said they didnt talk while we were seeing whatwas going on with anakin and amidala?

[Sandor 799]

they didnt talk in ESB, and besides who said they didnt talk while we were seeing whatwas going on with anakin and amidala?

Vader and Luke didn't talk in ESB? "Don't let yourself be destroyed as Obi-Wan did."

[Luke Skywalker 1,809]

The prelude of the EPIII duel, even if it has bad acting or dialogue, is rather emotional, and the music is superb.

I also assumed that Ben thought Vader had died and in that scene on the Death Star, he was truly shocked to see him/it.

What?

Ben explains (with his peculiar certain point of view) to luke who darth vader is, how can he be shocked to discover something he already knows?

No, Steef is right: the duel between Anakin and Ben is artificial. Souless.

Just for the hell of it; compare it to the drama and suspense of the equally monumental scene with Frodo and Sam at the fiery Crack of Doom.

On the technical side, The lava in LOTR is artificial, souless

[Wojo 2,453]

Lucas never managed to beat the big sword fight in TPM.

That is true.

The Anakin/Obi-Wan duel would have played better if there was no dialogue during the fight itself.

The Prequels would have played better if there was no dialogue during the three movies themselves.

Better.

[Ollie 1,069]

The duel wasn't help by the pathetic delivery of dialogue by Hayden right before they began. And the silly lava surfing didn't help either.

I would imagine Obi Wan initially though Anakin was dead when he burst into flames. Now whether or not he knew Anakin had survived up until the moment he encountered him on the death star could be debated. One would assume Obi-wan kept up on current events while secluded on Tatooine.

Of course most people would have finished the job and made sure Anakin was dead, Obi Wan should have decapitated him or at least finished the job to ensure he was dead. But then that's what happens when you write a story backwards.

As far as dialogue in during the duels in the original films between Luke and Vader, there was more at stake. Neither really wanted to kill the other and it was more mind games of trying to lure each other to their respective sides of the force.

[Wojo 2,453]

The backwards writing sometimes makes it ridiculous to consider that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda could not defeat Palpatine and his apprentice when they had the chance.

True, each duel was fought one-on-one, instead of two-on-one or two-on-two. True, Kenobi did not want to kill a defenseless Anakin in cold blood, and left him within an inch of his life to his fates. True, Yoda turned tail and ran from Palpatine, who had thousands of large senator pods to throw at him.

But Kenobi had decades of experience and Yoda had centuries, and that was the best they could do. Both Jedi chose to hide for 20 years before making themselves known to their would-be deliverer. They put all of their hope and faith into one small boy, who could have died at any moment from bad bantha or dehydration on a harsh planet. He would get only a few short days of training before being unleashed upon the Empire, and then a few years here and there until the end.

It's as if Obi-Wan and Yoda said "We took this kid with really strong Jedi potential, gave him the best Jedi training that money can buy, and he betrayed us. Let's take his son and give him as little Jedi training as possible, and see what happens. We can't end up worse off than now."

Yet it speaks to Lucas' all-encompassing message that the power of love will ultimately conquer all. Luke shows love and mercy to his father, who finally cracks and turns against the master who had ensnared him, ending the reign of evil.

Aww shit, it's still ridiculous.

[Ollie 1,069]

I liked it better when it was just Star Wars, Empire and to a certain extent, Jedi.

Imagination can be a wonderful thing, Anakin's downfall was much more compelling that way.

[Faleel 5,447]

they didnt talk in ESB, and besides who said they didnt talk while we were seeing whatwas going on with anakin and amidala?

Vader and Luke didn't talk in ESB? "Don't let yourself be destroyed as Obi-Wan did."

that was at the end of the duel

[Red 75]

The prelude of the EPIII duel, even if it has bad acting or dialogue, is rather emotional, and the music is superb.

No, the epilogue to it was, with Anakin getting burned and Obi-Wan pleading to him. It's maybe the best scene in the movie, certainly one of the best in the prequels. Though that isn't saying a whole lot.

[Wojo 2,453]

they didnt talk in ESB, and besides who said they didnt talk while we were seeing whatwas going on with anakin and amidala?

Vader and Luke didn't talk in ESB? "Don't let yourself be destroyed as Obi-Wan did."

that was at the end of the duel

No, I'm sorry, they talk all through the duel. Or rather, Vader talks a lot and Luke doesn't.

Round 1

The Force is with you, young Skywalker, but you are not a Jedi yet.

(Luke jumps the gun and ignites saber, Vader follows. Luke takes the first swing, and Vader is just playing with him single-handedly. Then,)

You have learned much, young one.

You'll find I'm full of surprises.

(Are we at the end of the duel? More fighting, and Luke loses his saber. Uh-oh, that should be the end, but it's not.)

Your destiny lies with me, Skywalker. Obi-Wan knew this to be true.

No. Aargh.

(Luke falls into freezing chamber. We should be at the end of the duel, but we're not.)

All too easy. Perhaps you're not as strong as the Emperor thought. Impressive, most impressive. Aargh. Obi-Wan has taught you well. You have controlled your fear. Now release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me. Aargh.

Round 2

(No talking while Vader catches up on teaching his son baseball.)

Round 3

(No talking while Vader pushes Luke backwards out onto the walkway.)

You are beaten, it is useless to resist. Don't let yourself be destroyed as Obi-Wan did. Aargh.

Ah!

(Now the duel is over, as Vader cuts off Luke's hand, sending his old lightsaber spinning off into oblivion.)

There is no escape...

[Faleel 5,447]

alright here i'll edit my post EDIT: there is no talking pretty much except at the beggining and end of each round

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

What?

Ben explains (with his peculiar certain point of view) to luke who darth vader is, how can he be shocked to discover something he already knows?

He tells him Vader helped hunt down the Jedi. I assumed the fight happened sometime after that, during the Jedi purge. It would be important, one of the last remaining Jedi and Vader. Then I assumed he became a hermit on Tatooine, believing Vader had died in their fight. I doubt he kept up with much from his house there. That's what.

[John Crichton 4]

Lucas should have resisted the urge to have Yoda and Palpatine actually fight. Palpy should have stayed the dark manipulator behind the scenes.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

I figured their powers were beyond swords. The delivery of the Emperor's line about Luke's lightsaber being a Jedi's weapon made me think he looked down upon it. And the ballsy way he tells Luke to attack him, like clearly he was way beyond laser swords. The guy was in charge of Vader. Then he begins to use his powers at the very end and it was nothing you had seen before.

In the prequels, Count Doku steals his thunder by being as powerful as the Emperor in the ability to cast that lightning.

The lightsabers can, stupidly, block the lightning. It's energy from the force. Why would a laser block that?

There's also a really weird line in Episode II where Obi-Wan tells Anakin the sword is his life. It's a defensive weapon, but a weapon nonetheless. Why would that be a Jedi's life?

[Faleel 5,447]

it means "this weapon is everything, withought it you are almost defensless"

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

I don't exactly buy that. They lose them all the time, so I guess it was some kind of joke? The statement sounds aggressive.

[Datameister 2,095]

It was necessary to set up the "Master Obi-Wan's gonna kill me" joke later on.

[King Mark 3,631]

Ah .More Prequel Bashing

I was expecting a deep meaningful thread about the passage of time

[Faleel 5,447]

it was.......joke? The statement sounds aggressive.

yes have you even listened to the commentary? ol' george himself says it is

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

Ah .More Prequel Bashing

I was expecting a deep meaningful thread about the passage of time

And you were hoping for the complete scores. That must really suck!

[Luke Skywalker 1,809]

What?

Ben explains (with his peculiar certain point of view) to luke who darth vader is, how can he be shocked to discover something he already knows?

He tells him Vader helped hunt down the Jedi. I assumed the fight happened sometime after that, during the Jedi purge. It would be important, one of the last remaining Jedi and Vader. Then I assumed he became a hermit on Tatooine, believing Vader had died in their fight. I doubt he kept up with much from his house there. That's what.

That's you assuming things.

Obviously, The Emperor and his 'Commander in chief' are well known throughout the Empire...

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

Yes, it's an assumption. Want to read more? Read your own posts.

This is something I've been arguing for years and other fans don't want to accept. There was never any indication in the movies that Darth Vader is known throughout the universe. He is known to select heroes and villains, Imperial officers and perhaps alliance personnel. The movies indicate, in fact, that he is mainly behind the scenes. In Star Wars, it seems he has been called in to deal with the rebels same as with the Jedi years before. So he's been attacking and raiding ships in an attempt to round up rebellion supporters and locate their base. But he takes orders from Grand Moff Tarkin. He ain't that important. Meanwhile, you have Leia reporting these incidents to the senate and Imperial senators likely not giving a crap. "Huh? Darth what?" Vader was just the Emperor's lapdog.

The EU and fans unfortunately support Vader being this big celebrity.

[Luke Skywalker 1,809]

Vader appears in Cloud City, not at all undercover.

Lando calrissian is not either a hero or villain at this point.

case closed.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

?

It's never indicated Lando wasn't introduced to Vader when the Empire invaded!

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Yes, it's an assumption. Want to read more? Read your own posts.

This is something I've been arguing for years and other fans don't want to accept. There was never any indication in the movies that Darth Vader is known throughout the universe. He is known to select heroes and villains, Imperial officers and perhaps alliance personnel. The movies indicate, in fact, that he is mainly behind the scenes. In Star Wars, it seems he has been called in to deal with the rebels same as with the Jedi years before. So he's been attacking and raiding ships in an attempt to round up rebellion supporters and locate their base. But he takes orders from Grand Moff Tarkin. He ain't that important.

Vader was clearly there to watch over GMT under orders from Palpatine, and obviously begrudgingly took orders from him. Once GMT - and the Death Star - failed, something Palpatine probably predicted, Vader was given carte blanche to do whatever the fuck he wanted. This is why by ROTJ he'd assumed GMT's position. You think a guy with The Force running around the Empire choking anyone who won't do his bidding is going to stay behind the scenes? I guarantee 80% of the Imperial forces were sucking up to him on Facebook.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Of course all of this is after-the-fact talk. In the late 70's Lucas had not fleshed out the entire SW universe. So ultimatly there is is no right or wrong answer with regards to the way Vader is portrayed in Star Wars ANH

[Luke Skywalker 1,809]

Still Vader survived, where the main villain didnt.

?

It's never indicated Lando wasn't introduced to Vader when the Empire invaded!

Vader appeared in the open, people saw him.

And he didnt kill them. Therefore Darth vader must not be an Imperial secret agent that must remain hidden..

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

People saw Boba Fett, doesn't mean they know who he is. He's just another guy with a helmet. There's no reason for most people in the universe abroad not directly connected with the war to know who Vader is. Someone like Han Solo didn't even believe in the force or that kind of thing. Again, likely he was only known among Imperial and rebel personnel in addition to the select heroes and villains. The celebrity status is laughable.

He was most certainly an agent.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The celebrity status is laughable.

He was most certainly an agent.

In the OT, there is no direct evidence either support or reject your theory.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

Exactly.

The opening of SW refers to Vader as a sinister agent. Whether it was an undercover thing, which I support, is not clear. It's left up to one's interpretation.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The meaning of the phrase "sinister agent" is open for interpretation.

[Incanus 5,733]

Exactly.

The opening of SW refers to Vader as a sinister agent. Whether it was an undercover thing, which I support, is not clear. It's left up to one's interpretation.

The films themselves do not make very clear if people by and large knew Darth Vader widely but it would be rather strange that the second-in-command to the ruler of the Empire was not widely known to its subjects. That is not implied in the first film though. But if anything Darth Vader is the visible symbol of the oppression of the Empire, not just a guy in a cloak, military helmet and mask sneaking around the corners and moving through shadows being very hush hush about himself or his mission. Cruising everywhere with huge battleships is not exactly an image of subtlety but of brute oppression and clear show of might. Vader is thus established as an active villain more so than any Imperial officer, Tarkin included. You might read subservience and errand-boy position to this activeness but on the other hand there is always menacing authority to Vader that to me separates him from a mere lackey or a thug who bullies people for the Empire and gets blown to bits in the end or shot by the heroes.

In the first film Vader seems like the strong-arm man of Tarkin/Empire but of considerable authority of his own right. In the subsequent two films Vader's position is obviously that of a sort of high commander or fleet commander out-ranking even admirals and generals. It is here that we get to know more about him and his position that was left a bit vague in the first film. In RotJ his position as Emperor's chief servant and apprentice comes clear although that position seems to be very temporal as the Emperor is willing to cast him aside when he finds a stronger apprentice.

Ben mentions Vader as the man who helped the Empire to destroy the Jedi and hunt them down. Wouldn't this make Vader just a bit more known than your average military goon? I do not know if any celebrity status is implied but certain notoriety is, Vader is established as part of the background and history of the galaxy. And perhaps not every farm hand and out of the way hermit (Ben excluded) and the population of Tatooine would know Vader when they are in the back water of back waters of the galaxy and do not follow the news but one would expect Vader to have some kind of reputation amoung larger galatic populace if Leia knows him instantly and implies that Vader is known for his ruthless acts, like attacking a diplomat ship if his mission required it. Ruthless agent of the Empire and known for it. Certainly Emperor's lapdog as he was but a powerful and active lapdog, a far cry from Tarkin who is a traditional behind-the-scenes operator. The fact that Vader is hands-on about his mission does not mean that he is somehow a lesser servant, just a suitable servant for the job. Perhaps even more famous for it. And of course in a galaxy far far away there certainly were darker corners where the word of the almighty Darth Vader and his menacing magnificence had not reached. But, Darth Vader, a nobody? I don't think so.