What is the last video game you played?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

23 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

Sounds intriguing! But Fallen Order was pretty heavily inspired by Uncharted anyway, I wonder what will set this one apart?

 

Either way I'm glad to see another single-player action/adventure SW game in the works. Never been a multiplayer gamer myself and FPS games don't do much for me either.

 

It appears as if there's three such games in the works at the moment. This one, the sequel to Fallen Order and that Eclipse one which is most likely an action RPG, successor to the wonderful Knights of the Old Republic games. 

Fallen Order is heavily inspired by From Software games. Amy Hennig’s previous Star Wars game was canceled by EA when they shut down Visceral. So it’s nice to see her given another shot. 
 

Eclipse is developed by Quantic Dream, so it will not be an action RPG. That game is already in development hell. It was announced that it won’t be released until 2027 or 2028. KOTOR is currently being remade as a PlayStation exclusive by another team. 

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

1 hour ago, Koray Savas said:

Eclipse is developed by Quantic Dream, so it will not be an action RPG. That game is already in development hell. It was announced that it won’t be released until 2027 or 2028. KOTOR is currently being remade as a PlayStation exclusive by another team. 

 

Ah fair enough. I read the description about the High Republic and made the assumption it was meant to be a successor to KOTOR. Didn't realise KOTOR is getting a remake, that's great (though hopefully it's not just the same storyline again). Thanks!

 

 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

1 hour ago, Docteur Qui said:

Ah fair enough. I read the description about the High Republic and made the assumption it was meant to be a successor to KOTOR. Didn't realise KOTOR is getting a remake, that's great (though hopefully it's not just the same storyline again). Thanks!

It’s a remake so I’m assuming the storyline will be the same.

 

[SilverTrumpet 638]

I wouldn't count on that, at least not completely the same.

 

We live in an age where things are remade to "make them better". The people remaking think they're better than the people who created classics. 

 

Hell, look at Final Fantasy VII Remake. It's a completely different story because a character designer on the original thought he knew better. 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I’ve heard nothing but good things about FF7R from fans of the original. 

[SilverTrumpet 638]

17 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

I’ve heard nothing but good things about FF7R from fans of the original. 

 

I'm not even commenting on the quality. I'm just saying the story was completely changed. Beyond just being expanded upon. 

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I mean for me personally a remake should have something new to offer, including in the story it tells. I hope there is some changes to KOTOR, or at least extra depth in areas the original didn't focus on. I'd honestly prefer a sequel or a story set another few hundred or thousand years earlier or later if the alternative is just the exact same thing but with modern gameplay and graphics. I don't really see the point in that personally.

[Jay 37,369]

UbiSoft might be next to be acquired by someone else

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-22/assassin-s-creed-publisher-ubisoft-said-to-draw-buyout-interest

[King Mark 3,631]

On 21/04/2022 at 9:21 AM, SilverTrumpet said:

I wouldn't count on that, at least not completely the same.

 

We live in an age where things are remade to "make them better". The people remaking think they're better than the people who created classics. 

 

Hell, look at Final Fantasy VII Remake. It's a completely different story because a character designer on the original thought he knew better. 

 

Well Final Fantasy is a Japanese game so they actually tried to make some improvements over the original and please the fans of the series, and that's why it was well received. KotoR remake is a western game so I'll be hijacked by the woke police who will ruin it for the fans (removal of problematic dialogue lines, unattractive female characters to avert the male gaze and prioritize diversity and inclusion over the story)

[Faleel 5,353]

3 hours ago, King Mark said:

 

....KotoR remake.....the woke police....will ruin it....(ugly female characters)

Bull.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Yeah that was a big yikes from me. Ugly female characters? I really need to reread my copy of the woke agenda manual, I don't remember that being in it. They must've updated it.

[King Mark 3,631]

Woke "strong female characters" have a more masculine body type with this haircut usually.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

It’s ok KM, the women with asymmetrical haircuts can’t actually hurt you.

[Quintus 5,399]

Eh, he made a truthful observation, nothing more. How about take that chip off your shoulder instead of drawing conclusions about people you don't know. 

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Ah yes, I’m the one with the chip on my shoulder, not the person who is upset that the imaginary police are making imaginary women less sexually appealing to him personally.

[Quintus 5,399]

The proof of the pudding will be in Bioware's next Dragon Age game, a series renowned for its DD-Cup luscious long locked mage babes. I never played it myself, but I saw the graphics. 

 

Or perhaps the new generation of female characters in the series will now take on the appearance of the butch partner in lesbian relationships. But with an implausibly really pretty asexual face. 

[SilverTrumpet 638]

In all fairness, there is definitely a clear trend in western gaming with how the characters look. The above shows three or four different art styles and they still have obvious similarities. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It'd be funny to see somebody draw Princess Peach looking like she was redesigned to fit this new androgynous paradigm with that side swoosh haircut.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

11 hours ago, King Mark said:

Woke "strong female characters" have a more masculine body type with this haircut usually.

Feels like you just googled queer video game characters. What makes them ugly? The similar hair styles? Do you need to be sexually attracted to a video game character to play it? Sounds like all the hate for Aloy in Horizon recently for not being skinny enough. 

These characters look masculine to you?

 

[King Mark 3,631]

I didn't mean to be too specific, it's the first pic I cam across to illustrate the trend.

2 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Sounds like all the hate for Aloy in Horizon recently for not being skinny enough. 

 

 eeh ,it's more the reaction of sites like Kotaku devoting whole articles to praise how Aloy looks now because she's more "relatable" to how people look in real life and they didn't over sexualised her. Some elements in games are clearly added to please woke game Journos or prevent backlash from social media activists and not the real fans.

 

This is just a joke but there's a bit of truth in it

 

 

 

This upcoming game character  from Project Eve got immediate game journo and social media  backlash for being too pretty and "attracting the male gaze" . Even if those people complaining are less than 1% of gamers, the companies seem to bend to their will because of the social media pressure they cause. Personally I want my videogame characters to look like this.

 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,199]

45 minutes ago, King Mark said:

Personally I want my videogame characters to look like this.

 

Personally you want your female video game characters to be sex objects. Others don't, including women, who have long been a minority group among video gamers because they have in games often been… reduced to sex objects. But of course, those "woke" radicals don't matter, as long as the "true fans" can get off.

 

(Essentially, whenever someone uses "woke" as a criticism for something not being the way they grew up with it, it just underlines that they don't care about the reasons why something is changed, but rather blame those who've been objectified/under/misrepresented for not wanting to go on being objectified/under/misrepresented)

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I like the ones that are neither oversexed nymphs nor alt-punk freakazoids

[Quintus 5,399]

The best female character I've ever known in a game is probably Abby from TLOU2. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,199]

In the end, there are games and genres for over-sexed characters, and there are (many more) games that traditionally have had over-sexed (mainly) female characters not because they naturally follow from the game's setting/story, but because they appeal to the mainly male gamer demographic that therefore for a long time remained a mainly male demographic because most of the games had over-sexed female characters. You're average action film isn't a soft porn film, but saying that perhaps action and fantasy video games shouldn't automatically be soft porn games is still a cause for controversy in 2022.

[King Mark 3,631]

41 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Personally you want your female video game characters to be sex objects. Others don't, including women, who have long been a minority group among video gamers because they have in games often been… reduced to sex objects. But of course, those "woke" radicals don't matter, as long as the "true fans" can get off.

 

(Essentially, whenever someone uses "woke" as a criticism for something not being the way they grew up with it, it just underlines that they don't care about the reasons why something is changed, but rather blame those who've been objectified/under/misrepresented for not wanting to go on being objectified/under/misrepresented)

 well that's your interpretation of it.  That Project Eve character model somehow got you triggered as inappropriate in this day and age and you concluded I want my female characters to look like sex objects. I'm not saying there's not a place for more down to earth character models, but developers should still be allowed to make them like this without having to change them because of some backlash (by people who would never play the game anyways). Right now there is a push to eliminate female characters deemed "sexy" in a traditional gamer geek way. Women are a small minority of gamers and always will be no matter if developers try to appeal to their sensibilities. 

 

I see videogames as an escape from real life where it's ok to have idealised characters that are not designed  to pander to woke game journos.

 

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Personally I want my videogame characters to look like this.

[King Mark 3,631]

yeah!

[Marian Schedenig 8,199]

8 minutes ago, King Mark said:

 well that's your interpretation of it.  That character model somehow got you triggered as inappropriate in this day and age and you concluded I want my female characters to look like sex objects.

 

What character model triggered me? I was responding to your comments that you want games to keep over-sexualised characters, and that you don't care for people who feel triggered by them (e.g. potential female gamers who still encounter a strong tendency for objectified female sex model "characters" in games) and just blame "woke game journos".

 

8 minutes ago, King Mark said:

I'm not saying there's not a place for more down to earth characters, but developers should still be allowed to make them like this without having to change them because of some backlash. Right now there is a push to eliminate all females characters deemed sexy in a traditional geek way.

 

In other words: You're not saying there's not a place for games that to not objectify women, but developers should still be allowed to exploit them, and nobody should complain that a majority of female video game characters are primarily sex objects. (Why? Because that's what you like, and you want to stay it that way.) Right now there is a push to make fewer female video game characters sex objects in a traditional geek way that young male gamers can lust over and young female gamers can't connect to (in the best case - or worse, learn that this is what men expect them to be like).

 

8 minutes ago, King Mark said:

I see videogames as an escape from real life where it's ok to have idealised characters that are not designed  to pander to woke game journos.

 

Only if they're *your* kind of idealised. Because you keep ranting about how games should not be allowed to have characters that are idealised by those who have different idealised - like a majority of female gamers (and an at least increasing number of male gamers).

 

Try questioning the "traditional geek way" from a female gamer's point of view. I've recently been watching the STTNG Blu-ray extras, and one thing I'm always amazed by is how highly Roddenberry is held in regard by Black actors simply for having a black woman in a starship crew interact normally with white men (as repeatedly emphasised by LeVar Burton and Whoopie Goldberg), because it taught them that something like this is imaginable when everything else on TV was still teaching them that it wasn't. Representation (here's another trigger word) can make a huge difference to the lives of those represented. But you're arguing against it because you don't like how it impacts your traditional geek ways.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

44 minutes ago, Quintus said:

Probably the best female character I've ever known in a game is probably Abby from TLOU2. 

Agreed; and the game is reviled by many for being “woke.” KM would hate it. 

[Quintus 5,399]

I found Ellie's arc and general storyline to be not as compelling as I'd have liked (or anticipated), and so should Abby feature in the inevitable sequel I'd personally rather see her character be the focus and main playable character. Begin a brand new story, with her historical motivations being a driving factor. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I'm all for sexy and non-sexy characters in video games.  Just like how there are sexy and non-sexy people in real life.  

[Disco Stu 15,495]

8 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Just like how there are sexy and non-sexy people in real life.  

 

 

[King Mark 3,631]

8 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

 

Try questioning the "traditional geek way" from a female gamer's point of view.

  

Hmmm..no . I play videogames to visit fantastical worlds,  escape reality and have fun.  The last thing on my mind is "how would a potential female gamer feel about the portrayal of this character" .  Some of the most hilarious moments in videogames is when I know it would upset moral puritans, especially in Japanese games.

 

That  female gamer in the you tube video I linked to about Project Eve seems more like the normal reaction of a real female geek gamer than the other ones who roam Twitter trying to find something to complain about.

 

And  I never sexualise videogame female characters like I'm watching soft porn or something, but I like them designed with an element of cuteness and femininity.

 

 

8 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

 

 

 

I've recently been watching the STTNG Blu-ray extras, and one thing I'm always amazed by is how highly Roddenberry is held in regard by Black actors simply for having a black woman in a starship crew interact normally with white men (as repeatedly emphasised by LeVar Burton and Whoopie Goldberg), because it taught them that something like this is imaginable when everything else on TV was still teaching them that it wasn't. Representation (here's another trigger word) can make a huge difference to the lives of those represented. But you're arguing against it because you don't like how it impacts your traditional geek ways.

  Hmm, Star Trek is not woke because it has a multiracial cast. You seems to misunderstand  my definition of it.

[Marian Schedenig 8,199]

12 minutes ago, King Mark said:

Hmmm..no . I play videogames to visit fantastical worlds,  escape reality and have fun.  The last thing on my mind is "how would a female gamer feel about the portrayal of this character" . Some of the most hilarious moments in videogames is when I know it would upset moral puritans, especially in Japanese games.

 

But you're not the only one playing these games, and they are not made just for you. Somebody else might say (to give an exaggerated example) that they like a game where they can have Black slaves and torture them. But that wouldn't necessarily make it acceptable to actually produce and release such a game.

 

And I'm not saying sexualised characters cannot have a place in a video game. There are games where they fit, and even when they aren't "required", they might be a fun touch and don't necessarily be entirely inappropriate. The lines are fluent, but they're obviously there, and even if you perceive them differently than others, you can at least acknowledge that others have a reason for their views. Yet you don't even complain about the decision to regard those lines so much as you are simply refusing to accept that some people may have valid objections.

 

12 minutes ago, King Mark said:

Hmm, Star Trek is not woke because it has a multiracial cast.

 

My point was more detailed than that. And I would classify Trek as woke, probably more than any other classic TV franchise.

 

12 minutes ago, King Mark said:

You seems to misunderstand  my definition of it.

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke

Quote

aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)

 

[King Mark 3,631]

Well, when it's the series creator (Gene Roddenberry) that wanted it that way it's fine. I like Star Trek.

When it's changes made due to social media pressure or backlash, or top down interference by the studio it's bad.

Having diversity doesn't mean it's automatically woke, at least not in the way I perceive things.

8 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Agreed; and the game is reviled by many for being “woke.” KM would hate it. 

Probably not . I'll play it if I have the time. Again it goes more with my line of thinking that if the game was designed with these characters in mind it's fine. 

 

I think the reason it was deemed woke is not the game itself but the 10/10 across the board reviews from woke Game Journos and that it won GOTY award despite being buggy and having gameplay issues. A bit like Black Panther was nominated for an Oscar for best film even if it's really a bottom tier Marvel movie on par with Ant Man and Captain Marvel.

[Marian Schedenig 8,199]

As I said, you refuse to even acknowledge that other people may have good reasons for objecting to be portrayed in a certain way that you enjoy. You refuse to even concede them a right to criticise a game for doing that. Yet you assume the right to criticise game developers for acting on that criticism - perhaps even because they agree with it (but then they're "woke", and that's a bad thing, because when used as a derogatory term it is meant as "aware and actively attentive to things that I don't care about and that's the only thing that counts even if those things are important to others").

[King Mark 3,631]

 I stand by my position because we've reached a point where most of these complaints aren't legitimate anymore except for some special interest groups living in their woke bubbles. Social media lunatics are stretching the limits of imagination to find a racist or sexist context in everything , so by responding and making changes to accommodate everyone that claims to be offended by this and that aspect of the game you end up with a neutered and flavorless product that nobody likes.

 

 

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Just because it’s not your flavour doesn’t make it flavourless.

[Faleel 5,353]

I mean....

[King Mark 3,631]

she was ok

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

But you're not the only one playing these games, and they are not made just for you. Somebody else might say (to give an exaggerated example) that they like a game where they can have Black slaves and torture them. But that wouldn't necessarily make it acceptable to actually produce and release such a game

 

 Obviously.

 

Which reminds me  Boba Fett's ship is not called the Slave One anymore because it has the word "slave" in it. Even words taken out of context are being censored. That's a good example of wokeness taken to the extremes .

[Quintus 5,399]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Somebody else might say (to give an exaggerated example) that they like a game where they can have Black slaves and torture them. But that wouldn't necessarily make it acceptable to actually produce and release such a game.

 

 

 

Oof, even as "exaggerated examples" go this was terribly clumsy. In a determined reply, you went from 0-60mph in 0.2 seconds, and accidentally flew off the cliff. 

 

Pity. 

 

 

 

I just finished Breath of the Wild. The readout says it took me 122 hours. Will post final thoughts tomorrow. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I think all sexy and non-sexy characters should have skimpy, suggestive DLC outfits.  For males too.  

[King Mark 3,631]

Quintus, I'm stuck in Live Service  game hell. 2 years ago I never understood how you could devote so many hours in a game like Destiny 2 . But I'm having the same problem now with Genshin Impact.  I'm just grinding for minimal improvement of my characters and doing daily activities gives me in game currency. . I really need to cut loose of it to return to my normal schedule of single player games

9 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I think all sexy and non-sexy characters should have skimpy, suggestive DLC outfits.  For males too.  

  but they are really expensive

[Marian Schedenig 8,199]

24 minutes ago, Quintus said:

Oof, even as "exaggerated examples" go this was terribly clumsy. In a determined reply, you went from 0-60mph in 0.2 seconds, and accidentally flew off the cliff.

 

I don't think so, at least not if you refer to the exaggeration/comparison. I wanted to take something that was once commonplace and is now generally recognised and regarded as unacceptable, so I used an extreme/extremely obvious example. The point was to contrast it with sexism, which I'm arguing often still isn't even recognised as such. But just because one group of people isn't even aware of it (or is so used to it that it's easy to turn a blind eye) doesn't mean that another, more directly affected group, isn't, and isn't possibly suffering the consequences.

 

Again, I'm not saying these things are always clearly defined or clear cut. But I'm arguing against categorically dismissing them, especially when keywords like "woke" and "lunatics" suggest that they're being dismissed *very* categorically. Not seeing issues because one is not affected by them is the essence of privilege (another trigger word there).

 

And if these things are sometimes taken too far (which again cannot easily be defined as a hard line), that's not surprising. As long as one extreme is still the norm and people trying to hold against it face immediate outrage, that's almost inevitable. And it can be discussed without summarily rejecting even the existence of valid reason for the basic motivation behind it.

[Faleel 5,353]

Unlucky Bastard is back?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Marian’s got the brain worms

 

KM’s hardly alone, across the political spectrum, in just wanting to get thirsty over some waifus.   No point getting worked up about it for some abstract nonsense.

[Romão 2,274]

Not to derail the interesting conversation, but as anyone given Dune: Spice Wars a try?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

12 minutes ago, Romão said:

Not to derail the interesting conversation, but as anyone given Dune: Spice Wars a try?

 

Unless it depicts Paul Atreides as jacked and wearing an outfit that shows his massive junk I'm not interested. 😤

[Marian Schedenig 8,199]

49 minutes ago, Stu said:

KM’s hardly alone, across the political spectrum, in just wanting to get thirsty over some waifus.   No point getting worked up about it for some abstract nonsense.

 

As I said, my objection was to the outright dismissal of any trace of validity to the "woke" arguments. It's an ongoing issue in the industry, and the strict rejection of even a reason for debate by a significant number of gamers has even led to serious death threats (see Gamergate) - not that I'm trying to accuse KM of that, mind you!

 

I have no problem with anyone enjoying those kinds of things in games. I sometimes do myself. I'm not trying to go for a holier than thou thing - I probably enjoy some things about games (and films and books etc) that others have valid reasons to object to, and often I'm probably not aware of them. When I am, I may or may not understand the objections, and I may agree or disagree with them or their importance. But I can at least acknowledge them, especially when they're quite fundamental to a large number of gamers (and even developers). That's pretty much all I can say about it.

 

29 minutes ago, Romão said:

Not to derail the interesting conversation, but as anyone given Dune: Spice Wars a try?

 

I only even heard of it today, in a local newspaper article. The author bemoaned that it doesn't have "Hans Zimmer's impressive score" from the film. I'm not quite clear on how official the game is or how much it is based on the book(s) (apparently not on the film) or rather their stories. I played the original Dune 2 back on the Amiga - in fact the only (pe) C&C version I've ever played myself.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

6 hours ago, King Mark said:

I think the reason it was deemed woke is not the game itself but the 10/10 across the board reviews from woke Game Journos and that it won GOTY award despite being buggy and having gameplay issues. A bit like Black Panther was nominated for an Oscar for best film even if it's really a bottom tier Marvel movie on par with Ant Man and Captain Marvel.

Receiving critical praise doesn’t make a game “woke.” As this entire conversation has been about, The Last Of Us Part II features masculine, gay, and trans women at the center of its storytelling. All of these narrative details leaked before the game was out, and people have been devouring it for them ever since.

 

Neil Druckmann receives death threats for it on Twitter.

 

These types of reactionary responses to diversity in storytelling are the issue, along with far left games journalism as you mentioned. But game devs and publishers aren’t forcing this stuff into games because of journalists. People simply exist that want to tell stories with these types of characters.
 

Naughty Dog has carte blanche with PlayStation. No one is forcing these characters into games to avoid journalistic backlash. Your sexy JRPG character design isn’t going to go anywhere.