GAME OF THRONES

[Arpy 4,145]

17 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Whether they know they're related or not Dany + Jon is inevitable. 

Yes! They are made for eachother!

 

Just now, Disco Stu said:

That seemed logical to me.  Why do you think it's ridiculous?  He's having trouble convincing anyone the threat is real.  Capturing a wight would be pretty convincing.

Cersei doesn't seem like the kind of person that would give two shits about zombies! 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

2 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Cersei doesn't seem like the kind of person that would give two shits about zombies! 

 

It'll hold off her defeat at the hands of Dany until after the Night King is defeated.  Buys her time to find a way to win.

[crumbs 14,318]

Anyone else nervous about what ideas Cersei + Qybyrn might have if they had access to a Wight?! This has bad news written all over it.

 

Would Cersei be insane enough to turn the entire Lannister army into an undead army, using whatever knowledge Qyburn uncovers from a captured Wight? I could easily see the show heading down this path, as she's basically acknowledged she can't defeat Dany and 3 dragons as it stands.

[Jay 37,371]

5 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

It'll hold off her defeat at the hands of Dany until after the Night King is defeated.  Buys her time to find a way to win.

 

Exactly

 

 

4 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Would Cersei be insane enough to turn the entire Lannister army into an undead army, using whatever knowledge Qyburn uncovers from a captured Wight? I could easily see the show heading down this path, as she's basically acknowledged she can't defeat Dany and 3 dragons as it stands.

 

Right

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I thought it was pretty amusing when I noticed last night that HBO's official subtitles misspell 'wight' as 'white.'

[Wojo 2,453]

The entire Targaryen line is borne out incest going back generations. Rheagar was rather novel in his interest in women outside the family, in the Martell and Stark families. Of course, Dany had a child to Khal Drogo but it died. 

 

It's kind of unfair that she would get googly eyes for another outsider, but one who turns out to be her nephew anyways, with a father with the same parents as both of hers. Almost makes me think they will not end up together. 

 

 

I predict one of Dany's most loyal servants will end up returning to her as the very creature they went north to find. 

[Jay 37,371]

3 minutes ago, Woj said:

I predict one of Dany's most loyal servants will end up returning to her as the very creature they went north to find. 

 

Oh shit that'd be nuts!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

He cures a disease thought to be incurable, just to end up a zombie 3 episodes later.  No one has worse luck than Jorah Mormont.

[Jay 37,371]

LOL:

 

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

Remember Alliser Thorne was sent to King's Landing in Season 1 with the severed hand of the wight that had attacked Jeor Mormont? It could have helped make this "wight-capture plan" seem more natural (from the audience's perspective), as a desperate measure, if the show had actually followed through and shown us the reaction that Alliser got from the Small Council. In the book, the hand had rotted away to almost nothing and become inactive, so the reaction was "What the hell is this supposed to prove?!" I seem to recall hearing that Owen Teale, the actor who played Thorne, had a scheduling conflict when they were shooting Season 2, so they replaced his scene with another in which the Small Council simply receives another raven from the Night's Watch requesting help.

 

Anyhow, if they'd at least mentioned the fact that a rotted hand got nobody's attention, it could have bolstered the credibility of the idea that nothing short of a full, active wight would have any impact on the sceptics.

[Wojo 2,453]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

How does that have anything to do with Dany choosing to sleep with her nephew or not?

 

Because it would mean she would not be against the idea. 

 

If Dany doesn't know, "King Snow, you are the bravest man I've ever met for standing up to me in spite of my Dragons for what you believe in. Take me, you fool." 

 

Once she knows: "All that stuff is still true, but we can rebuild our family line." 

 

Of course, this assumes her response to his legal right to the throne, regardless of his intent, remains civil. 

 

[Jay 37,371]

5 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

Remember Alliser Thorne was sent to King's Landing in Season 1 with the severed hand of the wight that had attacked Jeor Mormont? It could have helped make this "wight-capture plan" seem more natural (from the audience's perspective), as a desperate measure, if the show had actually followed through and shown us the reaction that Alliser got from the Small Council. In the book, the hand had rotted away to almost nothing and become inactive, so the reaction was "What the hell is this supposed to prove?!" I seem to recall hearing that Owen Teale, the actor who played Thorne, had a scheduling conflict when they were shooting Season 2, so they replaced his scene with another in which the Small Council simply receives another raven from the Night's Watch requesting help.

 

Anyhow, if they'd at least mentioned the fact that a rotted hand got nobody's attention, it could have bolstered the credibility of the idea that nothing short of a full, active wight would have any impact on the sceptics.

 

Actually, Benioff & Weiss specifically mentioned that (and they showed footage from that season 1 scene) in the "Inside The Episode" featurette that aired after the episode (on HBO Now at least).  They said that it was wriggling at the time it was cut off, but had withered away by the time it got to King's Landing.

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

Ah, right. Good to know they had it in mind; pity they couldn't have worked it into the script (unless I missed something).

[Wojo 2,453]

11 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

He cures a disease thought to be incurable, just to end up a zombie 3 episodes later.  No one has worse luck than Jorah Mormont.

 

Yup. Hey Sam, you think you're so smart, try to cure this now! 

 

Speaking of which, I wonder if there is precedent for a member of the Night's Watch to legally remove the black to inherit his house, now that his father and brother are ash. 

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

It will be funny if they succeed, at great cost, in capturing a wight, and then by the time they get it to King's Landing it's just a dead body.

 

Regarding the potential incest, I don't know what Jon or Daenerys's feelings would be on the matter, but I do find it striking that the majority of commentators on Game of Thrones seem to take it for granted that consensual incestuous relationships are both gross and immoral (in actuality, not just relative to the standards of the fictitious society in which it's set)...

[Jay 37,371]

39 minutes ago, Woj said:

Speaking of which, I wonder if there is precedent for a member of the Night's Watch to legally remove the black to inherit his house, now that his father and brother are ash. 

 

Ha!  Me and a coworker were just discussing the exact same thing!  I said maybe his son would actually be the heir since he took the black.  Then I realized once they kill the White Walkers, there won't need to be a Night's Watch any more, so he'll be all set!

[KK 3,307]

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

I joked all week with friends that it would be way too cheap/soap opera-ish to have Jamie/Bronn wash up on a shoreline away from the battle and escape. I burst into laughter when that exact scenario occurred.

 

So, so cheap. Talk about burning trust with viewers after such a contrived cliffhanger.  Can you imagine Vince Gilligan pulling shit like this on his viewers?

 

Better Call Saul season 3 spoiler:

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It would be as cheap as Better Call Saul season 4 starting with Chuck bursting out his front door, engulfed by smoke, as his burning house collapses behind him.

 

 

Logic in general seems to be of very little concern to this show.

 

The plan to capture one of the Dead to prove it to Cersei just sounds really dumb when you say it out loud.

 

Also, this might be the first episode where the travel times genuinely caught me off-guard. It's all pretty ridiculous.

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

7 minutes ago, KK said:

...the travel times genuinely caught me off-guard. It's all pretty ridiculous.

 

Which do you think don't add up?

[Wojo 2,453]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

Ha!  Me and a coworker were just discussing the exact same thing!  I said maybe his son would actually be the heir since he took the black.  Then I realized once they kill the White Walkers, there won't need to be a Night's Watch any more, so he'll be all set!

 

Sam's son? I'm not sure the show has told us how honest that Sam and Gilly are regarding the parentage of baby Sam, since the father/grandfather is Craster. But if he's passing the child off as his own, that's great. I don't remember what he told his folks last season. 

[Bilbo 3,709]

"I thought you might still be rowing" was fan service at its finest. 

[Jay 37,371]

Haha, was just about to mention that

 

Funniest moments of the episode

 

"Thought you might still be rowing"

 

"I won't be going, I'm a liability out there" "You are"

 

"Did you bring the big woman?"

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I laughed out loud when Cersei indicated her pregnancy.  But that was certainly not what the show intended.

[Jay 37,371]

My coworker thought that was hilarious too.  He thought she was pointing at her crotch but I thought she was pointing more just above it

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Yes, the act of silently pointing at her uterus was unintentionally funny and just as a tired old plot device it's pretty funny.

[Jay 37,371]

Well, the prophecy she received as a kid told her she'd have 3 children but they'd all die right?

 

I think there are three options

 

1) She's lying to Jaime to manipulate him

 

2) She'll die before she has the kid

 

3) She'll have the kid, it'll be disfigured in some way and she'll kill it, which will finally send Jaime over the line to kill her

[Disco Stu 15,495]

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

Well, the prophecy she received as a kid told her she'd have 3 children but they'd all die right?

 

I think there are three options

 

1) She's lying to Jaime to manipulate him

 

2) She'll die before she has the kid

 

3) She'll have the kid, it'll be disfigured in some way and she'll kill it, which will finally send Jaime over the line to kill her

 

It says a lot about where they've taken this character that option 3 seems likely at all!

---------------------------------------------------

 

Informative article about the context and implications of the letter Littlefinger planted for Arya to find:

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/game-of-thrones-sansa-letter-arya-season-7-episode-5-eastwatch

 

I had forgotten that Cersei forced Sansa to write before Ned's execution, in season 1.

[Jay 37,371]

Ah, perfect, thanks for that!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

Ah, perfect, thanks for that!

 

Here's another very informative explainer about Cersei's pregnancy and the prophecy and all that:

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/game-of-thrones-cersei-pregnant-miscarriage-season-7-episode-5-eastwatch

[Jay 37,371]

Well it seems certain she's not gonna have a healthy baby and raise it and it turns out swell for everyone

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Wouldn't that be a fun ending.

 

Fade to black and:

 

And the Lannister Dynasty ruled Westeros with an iron fist for thousands of years

[crocodile 8,017]

Good episode. Loved the "magnificent 7" team they put together at the end.

 

But damn, now it is moving a bit too fast. 

 

Karol

[Jay 37,371]

It was cool

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

1 minute ago, BloodBoal said:

...no point in bringing the character back if it is to kill him in the next episode...

 

That's what Osha thought...

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

It was cool

 

 

All the reunions, meetings, and new groupings are my favorite part of the story starting to whirl towards a conclusion.  I didn't think Jon's team could get better, and then I realized who was in the prison cell!

[Jay 37,371]

15 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

I'm guessing Gendry will survive for sure (no point in bringing the character back if it is to kill him in the next episode), Jon too, of course, Jorah probably as well, but after that... The Hound may survive too (if they have to go to King's Landing after that, the Cleganebowl could still happen), but Thoros, Tormund and especially the extraordinary, legendary Lord Beric Dondarrion...

 

I think Jorah is likely to die.  Essentially, he'll give his life for his queen by being the Wight they take back.

 

15 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Regarding Cersei: if she truly is pregnant (which I believe is the case), then I say it's a death sentence for her character...

 

Probably.  If she dies this season, who would sit on the iron throne?  Or will the season end with Daenrys on the throne?

[Wojo 2,453]

I would like for the Hound to do something great and be redeemed in Arya's eyes. 

[Quintus 5,399]

8 hours ago, crumbs said:

I joked all week with friends that it would be way too cheap/soap opera-ish to have Jamie/Bronn wash up on a shoreline away from the battle and escape. I burst into laughter when that exact scenario occurred.

 

So, so cheap. Talk about burning trust with viewers after such a contrived cliffhanger.  Can you imagine Vince Gilligan pulling shit like this on his viewers?

 

 

Just be thankful David Lynch isn't behind Game of Thrones, you'd have had to wait four more episode to find out what happened to Jamie, IF AT ALL. 

 

And besides, why do you talk like Game of Thrones is somehow supposed to be above cheap tactics? Jon Snow murdered season finale *cough*

 

Burning trust? Contrived cliffhangers? Which Game of Thrones show have you been watching up until now?

 

6 hours ago, KK said:

Logic in general seems to be of very little concern to this show.

 

The plan to capture one of the Dead to prove it to Cersei just sounds really dumb when you say it out loud.

 

Dumb but fun. It's one of those daft movie plans which the heroes go for after deciding it might just work.

 

Quote

 

Also, this might be the first episode where the travel times genuinely caught me off-guard. It's all pretty ridiculous.

 

It's like they've openly just thought, "fuck it, its been 7 years now, let's just get this done as economically as possible." I'm personally alright with it if reduces idle padding and sexposition (remember that?). Keep in mind: in this show those are the alternatives.

 

2 hours ago, Jay said:

 

 

 

The Expendables Christmas Movie is looking great this year.

 

In all seriousness though, I'm really loving this season far more than I expected to and quite a bit more than I have in years. It's better television without the shackles of Martin's novels forcing awkwardly fitting adaptation work. It's focused, remarkably tight by GoT standards and I'm enjoying the nice sense of everything coming together quite purposefully for the grand finale. Sure, it's a bit absurd how quickly people are getting from A to B, but I can happily overlook that particular variety of silliness and go along with the remainder of the ride if in the end that aspect becomes the final two seasons biggest flaw (it's fantasy, after all).

[KK 3,307]

3 hours ago, Quintus said:

Dumb but fun. It's one of those daft movie plans which the heroes go for after deciding it might just work.

 

Yea, I guess. But at some point this show used to be the antithesis of that stuff. After all, the success of the novels is largely indebted to the novelty in how it plays against those typical conventions.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Spot on BloodBoal, that's exactly what I was referring to. It's a suicide mission, but one the writers couldn't be bothered to dress with some idea of design. They just needed to get all these characters to the North somehow.

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

33 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

True, but I think we can all agree Gendry most likely has a larger role to play than Osha did.

 

I think you're begging the question, there!

 

I'd say that, back in the days when Osha was a full-time character, she was at least as prominent as Gendry; perhaps even more so. She was brought back just to tie up a loose end, long after her real function in the story was concluded. It's not out of the question that they're doing the same with Gendry.

 

Come to think of it, there was also the Blackfish, brought back after a long absence and killed in the next episode. The same goes for Walder Frey and Rickon (if you exclude a few intemediate episodes where they didn't feature)!

 

R.I.P., Gendry...

 

33 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

It's just "Let's go North and improvise!".

 

"Let's go North, kill Gendry, and leg it back to the castle with him as soon as he wights up!"

[Bilbo 3,709]

3 hours ago, KK said:

 

Yea, I guess. But at some point this show used to be the antithesis of that stuff. After all, the success of the novels is largely indebted to the novelty in how it plays against those typical conventions.

 

True but we don't know how Martin intends to finish the series (which he won't) I'd be surprised if his novels didn't start to become as cliched as the show the closer it got to the end. 

[Quintus 5,399]

3 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Regarding the plan, I think it's not so much the idea behind it ("Let's bring back a wight to convince Cersei") that is dumb, but how they seem to want to execute it ("well, let's just go North of the Wall, find the army of the dead somehow and capture a wight somehow". Really? Don't you want to discuss how you could capture it before going straight away North? I mean, there have been zero discussion about how they could possibly pull that off. It's just "Let's go North and improvise!". THAT, to me, is what is dumb and feels like lazy writing).

 

Huh? It wasn't shown of course, but I'm assuming the voyage from Dragonstone to Castle Black took them a good few days at least? Time is of the essence! You think they spent that time reminiscing about old times, the good old days or something? To me, they obviously discussed it all off-screen, hammered out the nitty gritty of the plan among themselves. To be shown unfolding soon, for dramatic effect. 

 

I realise Game of Thrones enthusiasts like to know it all and have everything well plotted out to the best of their ability for their postulating pleasure (which makes discussion insufferably impenetrable for casuals like me), but this storytelling technique is still very much in use on TV, in other shows. It can be very effective.

 

Must absolutely everything be shown being debated among the characters in order for you guys to accept it? Wow! I mean, I see the word dumb being bandied about, but I'd say this is decidedly dense more than anything.

[Bilbo 3,709]

The fast travel isn't much of an issue when it's happening in EVERY storyline. Business end of the story, pace does tend to speed up .

[Quintus 5,399]

Hey, it never occurred to me that since both Castle Black and Dragon Stone have been unlocked, that fast travel will indeed be available to the characters now. It must be installed on an SSD too, because there aren't even any loading times.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

Given the fact that they have formed a motley crew and headed north, I'm pretty sure they have thrashed out a plan between them prior to setting off. Does that not compute for you or something? This common sense. Yikes!

 

I mean seriously, this sounds exactly like a case of pics or it didn't happen.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

You seem to be arguing this from an entirely different angle to myself, but I was just about to say, you can rest assured about that stuff coming up anyway in the next episode, where they're bound to fight amongst themselves about how much of a "bad idea" it was in the first place, bound to fail. That sort of thing. I mean, it's not like they all get on is it. We have to be expecting one or two deaths of key characters after this excursion, right? That's where it'll feel like the mission is falling apart, but in the end it'll be the success it's obviously designed to be.

 

Out of curiosity though, is there any reason why you switched the debate about the common sense of the viewer into the common sense of the characters in the fiction? I think it was a deflection, but I'm just making sure.