Jay 37,374 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Oh right, I totally forgot about the Tyrion framing angle; My bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Well it was 6 years ago to be fair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 One thing I didn't really like was the whole Bran voice over: I'm going to spell it out for you, you dumb audience. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, crocodile said: One thing I didn't really like was the whole Bran voice over: I'm going to spell it out for you, you dumb audience. Karol And how Sam arrives at Winterfell, walks straight to Bran's room, and basically knocks on the door to say "Hey Bran, you still on for our appointment? The exposition dump? Cool." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just now, Disco Stu said: And how Sam arrives at Winterfell, walks straight to Bran's room, and basically knocks on the door to say "Hey Bran, you still on for our appointment? The exposition dump? Cool." Yes, it seems random that Sam should go straight to Bran. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: If they don't need to bring proof, why did they wait so long to kill him? That's my biggest counter to people who think they were playing Littlefinger all season. 5 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: I do wonder why they left people at the Wall, when it was clear they had no fighting chance, and all they did was run away anyway? "OK, we're going to stay here and wait for the army of the dead, and when it'll be here, we'll just run!". From a narrative point of view, I suppose it's to have characters we know at the Wall during the attack, but even then, we barely saw Tormund and Beric anyway... You pegged it, the only reason was to have characters there instead of a scene of them attacking an empty wall. Quote OK, question of the day, people: where the hell is Gendry? He didn't stay at the Wall, apparently, nor was he with Jon and co at King's Landing. So... Did the writers bring him back only to have a character run to the Wall in Episode 6 to warn the others? That's it? Because I now doubt we'll ever see him again... He's back in his rowboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, crocodile said: Yes, it seems random that Sam should go straight to Bran. Karol Wasnt Bran the only person at Winterfel he actually knew? 2 minutes ago, Jay said: That's my biggest counter to people who think they were playing Littlefinger all season. You know when Arya is "spying" on Sansa. When Lord Royce was pledging his allegiance to her was it to her over Littlefinger rather than her over Jon we weren't to believe it was? I might be a bit fuzzy on the details there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I really don't see how Sansa and Arya could have been playing Littlefinger. Their conflict came to a head last episode when Arya said all she needs to be Lady of Winterfell was Sansa's face. That conversation was in private. It wasn't a show for Littlefinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 The Night's Watch left soldiers stationed on the Wall because that's what they've always done for centuries. For centuries, they kept watch and only undead skirmishers would attack. The undead dragon is the game changer that causes the Night King to mobilize his entire army and march to the Wall. The soldiers ran because of the dragon, not because of the big army hundreds of feet below. If there wasn't a dragon, they would not have run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just now, BloodBoal said: Of course, but by that point, surely, they knew the Night King had a dragon, didn't they? They didn't know the Night King had dragged up and resurrected the dragon until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I forgot to say, I'm really glad Jaime finally fucking left Cersei. The Danish guy (I never remember his name) played the scene really, really well too. One of my favorite performances of the episode. Damien F and Quintus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Of course, but by that point, surely, they knew the Night King had a dragon, didn't they? Just because I got the Spanish download early and spoiled the big reveal for you with my dickish avatar does not mean that the Night's Watch knew the same. It's a shame too. Jon was careful to burn Thoros' body to prevent his conversion, and I'm pretty sure we've seen the blue eyes of zombified horses, but nobody considered the dead dragon would be recovered. Not that there was any way to do so last week. It's called dramatic irony. The audience knows something that the characters don't. This show has way too much of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 11 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: I forgot to say, I'm really glad Jaime finally fucking left Cersei. The Danish guy (I never remember his name) played the scene really, really well too. One of my favorite performances of the episode. Some of the absolute best performances in the show have been played opposite him. I really like him, I think he's excellent in this show. Never seen him in anything else though! Quintus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 33 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said: You know when Arya is "spying" on Sansa. When Lord Royce was pledging his allegiance to her was it to her over Littlefinger rather than her over Jon we weren't to believe it was? I'm sorry, I tried reading this twice but I actually have no idea what you're trying to say. Can you try again? 29 minutes ago, Damien F said: I really don't see how Sansa and Arya could have been playing Littlefinger. Their conflict came to a head last episode when Arya said all she needs to be Lady of Winterfell was Sansa's face. That conversation was in private. It wasn't a show for Littlefinger. Exactly. I thought the whole point of the "Imagine the worst possibility" conversation Littlefinger has with Sansa was that afterwards, she finally figured out that Littlefinger had been playing her, so she setup the trial (probably after talking to Arya and Bran in private first). I don't see any evidence at all that Arya and Sansa had been planning any of those before that time. "I'm a slow learner, but I do learn". Point being it took until that conversation that she got it. 26 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Of course, but by that point, surely, they knew the Night King had a dragon, didn't they? Why would you think that? As far as they saw, the dragon fell under the ice. They didn't know the Walkers had chains or that he could even resurrect a magical being like that. In fact, that could be why we saw Tormund and Berric at the wall; The other main characters might realize it's been breached, but it might be up to T&B to tell them that they have a dragon, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just now, Jay said: I'm sorry, I tried reading this twice but I actually have no idea what you're trying to say. Can you try again? Sorry. That was a really poor effort on my behalf. I'd just woken from a nap There was a scene earlier this season featuring Arya spying on Sansa. I'm a little hazy on the details but I think you see her meeting Lords in secret. They're pledging their loyalty to her. The way the scene works, as I recall, is to make you think they're siding with her over Jon. I'm wondering is it actually Littlefinger they're siding with Sansa against. I think Lord Royce was the person she was meeting but as I said, the details are hazy. Or maybe I just imagined it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 There is no scene like that that I recall at all. I think you imagined it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Thanks BB! Only seen episodes 5,6, and 7 the once so that's why I was hazy on the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 21 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: I think the moment that made her realize something was up is after the "Imagine the worst possibility", when the conclusion was "Arya was going to kill her and become lady of Winterfell", as Sansa knew Arya never wanted to become a lady. Exactly. 21 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Talking about Sansa/Winterfell, etc., another question I have: why did Sansa ever receive an invitation to go to King's Landing? Jon was going to be there: what was the point of also having her in King's Landing? At first, when the letter appeared in the previous episode, I thought it was a fake, created by Sansa to make Brienne leave Winterfell (so that she wouldn't interfere during the quarrel between Arya and Sansa), but I wasn't quite sure about that, and I'm still not sure about it now. Yea, it's pretty wonky, innit? The only real reason for it was to have Brienne be in the dragonpit scenes, and the only real reason for her to be in the dragonpit scenes was to have her reunite with Jaime.... but it didn't seem like their brief conversation really accomplished anything! 21 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Come on, they know at least the Night King can resurrected the dead, whatever the dead may be: a man, a bear, a giant... No reason for them not to believe he couldn't resurrect a dragon. The one thing I can buy is that the dragon fell in the water, and they wouldn't guess the dead could bring it out of the lake... Well I completely forgot that Bran was warged into the crows that flew over the wall just before it fell, so he already knows they have a dragon anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 7 hours ago, Disco Stu said: Seeing some theories that even though Littlefinger is dead, Aiden Gillen will still return next season because Arya will use his face for... stuff. I hope so actually! I'm expecting that, yes. 1 hour ago, BloodBoal said: The whole scene doesn't make sense. The Starks don't have to bring proof of what they're saying? Everyone just believes them? "Hey, our brother saw it in a vision! Shut up!"? If they don't need to bring proof, why did they wait so long to kill him? More to the point: Never mind if it was a long con or not, why the charade at the trial? Except as a surprise for the audience? 1 hour ago, BloodBoal said: OK, question of the day, people: where the hell is Gendry? Still running. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 31 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Talking about Sansa/Winterfell, etc., another question I have: why did Sansa ever receive an invitation to go to King's Landing? Jon was going to be there: what was the point of also having her in King's Landing? At first, when the letter appeared in the previous episode, I thought it was a fake, created by Sansa to make Brienne leave Winterfell (so that she wouldn't interfere during the quarrel between Arya and Sansa), but I wasn't quite sure about that, and I'm still not sure about it now. I assumed it was actually a plan of Littlefinger's, to get rid of their protector while he was trying to play the sisters against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 In the real world, the reason Cersei requested Sansa's presence at King's Landing was so Brienne could go instead and have scenes with Jaime and the Hound. The the world of the show, I am struggling to really think of a reason why Cersei would send for her.. OR, even when she did, why Sansa would send Brienne instead of simply ignoring the request all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 But why did Cersei want Sansa there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 @Marian Schedenigthe reason for all the charade at Littlefinger's "trial" was to humiliate him and catch him off guard. Some thing he would have done (and did with Ned). Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Well the point of the meeting was to call a truce between the major warring factions, but Winterfell was already represented by Jon. Sansa's requested presence made no in-world sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Cersei wanted her there so that, should things go wrong, she could order the Mountain to kill her too (along with every other enemy). It's quite obvious really. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 OK, I can buy that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Glóin the Dark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Saw it on the plane. Good season finale. Liked how it took its time with the Kings Landinf meet. Every got a scene or two without it fe hieling forced. (Unlike the week before) Strong scene between Tyrion and Cersie. Two people who hate each other and have little left to say to each other. Wonder why Tyrion trusted her that she would send troops to the north though. The Winterfell stuff was ok, but could have been much better. Some logic flaws as mentioned above. GOT doesn't really do subtle political intrigue very well anymore. The ice-Dragon breaking the wall and the army of the dead crossing into the North is a fine closure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 11 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Wonder why Tyrion trusted her that she would send troops to the north though. Doesnt it seem suspicious how it cut straight from him discovering her pregnancy to her accompanying him back to the arena? That, coupled with his very ambiguous face at the end, has conspiracy theorists in heaven. Has Tyrion betrayed Dany?!?! It wouldn't be the biggest surprise ever for Tyrion to turn antagonist. Seriously though, that cut was a little weird Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I'm not ready to throw in with the Tyrion betrayal speculation yet! This show is lost to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Watched it tonight, and I'll share my own response by simply quoting Christopher Hooten of The Independent, who wrote: "This conclusion was a reminder of just how bonkers and Top Trumps-esque Game of Thrones has become in its latest season, but when it looks this gorgeous, the dialogue exchanges are this pithy and the action is this jaw-dropping and enthralling, it's hard to be too mad about it. At some point in season eight, a living dragon is going to fight a dead dragon, jets of blue and red flame meeting in the middle like in a Manga, while dead giants and dead horses do battle with multiple races of men. And I will be there." About sums it up for me. Now, I'll leave you guys to speculate and theorise about the final 6 for the next year or so. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Stefancos said: Wonder why Tyrion trusted her that she would send troops to the north though. My understanding of it was that Cersei knew that her sincerity would be doubted unless Tyrion believed she was doing it for purely selfish reasons; she also knew that Tyrion recognises her devotion to her children, having called it her one admirable quality. She contrived to let slip "accidentally" the fact that she's pregnant, in order to put her deception on a more credible footing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 But Glóin, we get that part (that Cersei was playing Tyrion). The question is why wasn't Tyrion smart enough to realize Cersei was putting on a show for him? I agree that the way they cut away from the Cersei Tyrion scene indicates more was discussed that we didn't see. And also that the only reason to show Tyrion outside Dany's door as she banged Jon is connected to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I don't see any compelling reason not to take the version of events presented to us at face value! A plausibly-motivated pledge of support from Cersei is all they could hope for, and that's what they got. Even if Tyrion was sceptical that she would keep her word, what more could be done about it? What sort of conspiracy do people think is being masked here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Hmm lemme try to explain another way. Step 1: Cersei put on a show for Tyrion, pretending to "accidentally" reveal she's pregnant, but in reality she wanted him to "figure it out" . Do you agree so far? Step 2: Therefore, the question is, why didn't Tyrion stop and realize "oh, I'm not so smart that I figured out a secret she was trying to hide; she wanted me to 'discover' her secret". In other words, why is, once again, the audience smarter than a character we like. Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 28 minutes ago, Jay said: Step 1: Cersei put on a show for Tyrion, pretending to "accidentally" reveal she's pregnant, but in reality she wanted him to "figure it out" . Do you agree so far? Yes. 29 minutes ago, Jay said: Step 2: Therefore, the question is, why didn't Tyrion stop and realize "oh, I'm not so smart that I figured out a secret she was trying to hide; she wanted me to 'discover' her secret". Perhaps I expressed myself poorly in my last post, because I intended it to acknowledge the possibility that Tyrion didn't trust Cersei's expressed sentiments and assurances. Let me clarify my view of the matter: it's perfectly possible that Tyrion did realise that he was being played, and it's perfectly possible that he was genuinely deceived (there's more than one reason why the latter scenario doesn't necessarily make his character less smart than audience); most likely of all is that he didn't trust her completely but thought there was a decent chance of her being sensible given the very good case Tyrion and his colleagues had just presented in the Dragonpit. What I was asking was what sort of thing (regarding the Tyrion/Cersei conversation) people suspect has been concealed from us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 What's up with Robin Arryn by the way? He's now Lord of the Vale but no sign of him this season. Did he not come north with his army last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Who gives a shit? Where's Gendry?? And Ghost??? Dany was wearing Ghost when she set off North wasn't she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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