Howard Shore's An Unexpected Journey (Hobbit Part 1)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It was associated with Rohan in TTT by way of tracking.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,017]

Well, as far as I recall, Nature's Reclamation theme was associated with Rohan in TTT only as an afterthought

You mean in ROTK?

Well yes, as Stefan says, it was first tracked into Helm's Deep (in the place of Gandalf in Nature) and then in ROTK it became in fact part of the score. But it obviously wasn't the original intention behind the theme, even if in the end it fits in really well (both with the story and composer's intentions).

Having said that, I don't undertand what Fourth Age theme is doing in The Hobbit.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Either a last minute temp track Shore had to follow or he felt it would fit.

[KK 3,307]

I'm sure several other themes could have been used in such a soaring fashion. I want to see how all these curious musical choices work in film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wasn't that bothered by the 4th Age theme. But the Nazgul theme really worked against the film.

If they were gonna re-use from LOTR, why not some choral music from Moria?

[Jay 37,371]

Here are some more pics I took showing the difference between the two versions:

The disc art is completely different. The Standard edition has a normal booklet in a normal jewel case, the SE version has the booklet permanently attached to the covers

This cool pic under the second disc of the standard edition is nowhere to be found on the SE. In fact - NONE of the art used on the standard edition appears on the SE packaging AT ALL - with the ONE exception of the picture of Howard Shore

Pages 2 and 3 of either booklet show the exact same Production Credits (with one additional credit for session photos in the SE version), though different art is used

Pages 4 and 5 of either booklet show the exact same Thanks, though different art is used

Pages 6 and 7 of either booklet show the exact same Writing credits (the tracks which use Plan 9's theme are singled out, and the songs too), except that the SE booklet also mentions Blunt The Knives. Again different art is used

After that, pages 8-9 and 10-11 of the standard OST feature Doug's notes, while the back cover features a picture of Gollum.

For the SE, page 8-9 feature the Blunt The Knives and Misty Mountain lyrics in full, page 10-11 feature the Song of The Lonely Mountain lyrics in full, and then pages 12-13 feature a portion of that cool "banner" art, and page 14 is the picture of Howard Shore (which takes up a full page here, but is part of page 8 on the standard CD. Doug's notes are then spread out over pages 15, 16, 20-21, 24, 29, 32-33. Pages 17, 18-19, 22-23, 25, 26-27, 28, 30-31, 34-35 are all pictures of the recording sessions, and the back cover features a different picture of Gollum.

Phew!

Overall I am glad I have both versions. Doing a second-by-second comparison of both versions' audio now and will post my spreadsheet when done.

[crocodile 8,017]

It's weird because my SE booklet is not permanently attached to the cover. It's a kind of thing you can put in a standard jewel case.

Karol

[Jay 37,371]

Really? That's really odd. Mine is definitely permanently attached to the binding, you can't remove it. It wouldn't fit in a standard jewel case anyway, its 36 pages of high-stock paper!

Anyway, I guess Decca handled the international version of the SE differently than Water Tower handled the domestic version. But wasn't Alexander's version permanently attached too?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Maybe Alex ordered from Amazon

[Jonesy 55]

But wasn't Alexander's version permanently attached too?

Nope.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Ok, people seem to be tiptoeing around what's pressing heavily on their minds, and having just seen the film (in splendid 48 fps), I think I can speak it out loud what I thought after the film:

What the FUCK, Jackson?

You can count on one hand the cues from the soundtrack that were untouched in the film. I'm loving these films, but it's time to put the fanboyish gushing aside for a moment of realism. Howard Shore's music on CD is absolutely splendid. How it was presented in the film however, that is a freaking tragedy!

My favourite moments on album - not there at all. "The Adventure Begins", first half gone. "The World Is Ahead", mostly gone. "A Good Omen", almost entirely gone. "Riddles In The Dark", mostly gone. The choir in "Radagst The Brown", gone. The juicy bits of "The Hill of Sorcery", gone. The first minutes of "The White Council", gone. Some of "Brass Button", gone. The middle part of "Over Hill", gone.

And in their place isn't even new music most of the time. How the riddles in the dark sequence began, with direct lifting of the Ring theme from Fellowship (yes, those Ring variations on album are all gone!), and Gollum's menace and pity themes tracked in, like, six times in a row, that drove me mad right in my seat. Really, they must have used every cimbalon statement of his theme there is in LotR. It sort of matched Jackson's really obvious film making at this moment, with the ridiculously emphasized shot of the ring falling out of Gollum's nonexistent pocket.

Not even the haunting chorus from the end of "Brass Buttons" is there. Then they used in all honesty The Breaking Of The Fellowship in the scene from the trailer, when gandalf talks about Bilbo giving him courage. That didn't match the pacing at all.

Then, oh my lord Jesus, the worst musical moment as far as continuity is concerned is when

Thorin attacks Azog with the Nazgul music behind him.

That was so unbelievably awkward for someone knowing the music a bit.

Then there was the direct reusing of "Master Peregrin's Plan" from Two Towers, followed by an absolutely out of place statement of Gondor Reborn. Jesus. I think it is even a re-recording because the french horn counterpoint is not there.

What is this new devilry?

Out of all the things I was worried about going into this film, frame rate, pacing, the music was the least of my worries.

They cut Bilbo's theme almost entirely from the film!

The Nature variations at the end are really breathtaking, but at that point, the music took me out of the film, like, a dozen times already.

The coup de grace at the ending is that they took music away completely from the final shots of zooming in on the Lonely Mountain and Smaug opening his eye.

I do not know what was going on there, if Howard Shore could not keep up with the pace Jackson changed the film or if Jackson genuinely thought those things are actually good ideas, but I think the special edition of the AUJ score is the best presentation that film score can possibly get, even though that nature variation at the end needs to be released.

[Jay 37,371]

But wasn't Alexander's version permanently attached too?

Nope.

Oh wow - you're right! Also, his his version there is a third "panel", and the CDs come out of slots in the left. In mine, there's just the two "panels", with the booklet attached in between them, and you take the CDs out of the TOP!

[Jonesy 55]

The WaterTower release looks better than Decca.

[crocodile 8,017]

Well, the booklet is too thick for a jewel case, that's true. Anyway it's hidden in a sleeve.

Here are some pictures of what it looks like:

And back:

Sorry about slightly crappy quality but the only camera I have at the moment is the old iPhone.

EDIT: Oh I see Alexander beat me to it. With an almost identical pic!

Karol

[Brónach 1,302]

I'm reading gkgyver and I'm internally screaming "fan cut! fan cut! fan cut!"

[crocodile 8,017]

The WaterTower release looks better than Decca.

It really does. Decca looks cheap. It's just a cardboard.

Karol

[KK 3,307]

Wow. So have the extra recording sessions just been Shore re-recording past material?

Now I'm really scared for tomorrow's viewing....I knew I should have stayed away from this place!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Wow. So have the extra recording sessions just been Shore re-recording past material?

Now I'm really scared for tomorrow's viewing....I knew I should have stayed away from this place!

I don't want to scare you, but around every 15 minutes or so I thought either "they didn't really do this to the score?" or "they didn't really reuse that cue?"

But on the bright side, the OST version of Roast Mutton is included.

[Jonesy 55]

The WaterTower release looks better than Decca.

It really does. Decca looks cheap. It's just a cardboard.

Karol

Pity, I ordered the Decca release

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jonesy 55]

Decca

[crocodile 8,017]

Decca

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Bwahahahahaha!

[Jay 37,371]

crocodile can you post a picture of the set standing up like I did?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Alan 689]

Wow. This thread has been a depressing read this evening. People that are stuck with the Decca version have been screwed over with the packaging and the film butchers the score.

Can anyone get on Doug's blog? I'm getting that it's for invited readers only and my access is denied.

[gkgyver 1,645]

LOL. Gkgyver was so pissed off by how the music was treated in the film, he created a thread in TORN to express his discontent.

BloodBoal - who actually kind of supports gkgyver's initiative.

Yes, well, these films and music are too important to let a barefooted hedgehog edit out all the highlights.

There's a better chance of someone listening on TORN than here, obviously. Not that it will matter or anything.

But yes, you are right, the wacky edits in the film really PISS me off. It's not like the scenes were all of a sudden too short or too long or too different for Shore to do a proper rescore. In short, the edits were made because the score wasn't deemed fitting by someone. And I think that someone should get his head washed.

Wow. This thread has been a depressing read this evening. People that are stuck with the Decca version have been screwed over with the packaging and the film butchers the score.

Can anyone get on Doug's blog? I'm getting that it's for invited readers only and my access is denied.

I'm getting that message as well, I've emailed him.

Maybe we'll have to sign some sort of "loyalty towards Howard Shore" form before being able to rant about the film

[Faleel 5,359]

Maybe he is revamping the blog.

[Alan 689]

I've got a bad feeling about this...

Anyway, I love the score as it is on the CD so my loyalty to Shore isn't in question. I also want to believe that Jackson has made another worthy film in this universe but the music edits disturb me. It all seems too familiar.

(I'm telling myself that LOTR wasn't free of heavy edits and tracking. We're just very aware of Shore's music now)

[Faleel 5,359]

Gkgyver, was that great fanfare in Out of theFrying pan removed?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

Gkgyver, was that great fanfare in Out of theFrying pan removed?

YES!

Now you're reminding me.

[Alan 689]

Gkgyver, was that great fanfare in Out of theFrying pan removed?

YES!

Now you're reminding me.

NOOOOOOOOOO!

That was one of the highlights for me!

[gkgyver 1,645]

(I'm telling myself that LOTR wasn't free of heavy edits and tracking. We're just very aware of Shore's music now)

Trust me, the edits in any of the LotR films were never as heavy as in this one.

At least in Two Towers, they had the decency to remove the entire cue, like "The Story Foretold" being replaced by "Evenstar", so the flow of the piece isn't gone.

But here, sections of cues are simply dialed out and filled up with LotR music. Like The Breaking Of The Fellowship suddenly pops up in the middle of "Over Hill".

[Alan 689]

Hell, why bring Shore back for films two and three? Use Rohan for Laketown and Gondor for the Dwarves. Oh wait, they already did that one.

[Brónach 1,302]

No!! That fanfare in Frying Pan noo!! What the hell??? What for??? WHY??

[Alan 689]

Maybe that fanfare was from Kong...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,359]

Gkgyver, was that great fanfare in Out of theFrying pan removed?

YES!

Now you're reminding me.

I think am going to personally kick down Jackson's door now.

[Alan 689]

I think there will be a few of use helping you! Just like the scene in TTT he'll be up top throwing things down at us.

[crocodile 8,017]

crocodile can you post a picture of the set standing up like I did?

As you can see it is already slightly torn on top. The funny thing is that I don't remember how it happened.

A shit packaging!

The booklet is inside.

Karol

[Faleel 5,359]

Watch out for that spear

Shore: "I want to go on record as feeling artistically betrayed."

[Alan 689]

Isn't that what Williams said after TPM? Never thought I'd be drawing comparisons.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Really, it felt like from the beginning of The Riddles In The Dark onwards, the entire finale was an extremely strange mixture of rescoring, tracking, rerecording and not knowing what the hell to do with it.

When the music stops for the zoom in on Erebor, it doesn't sound like a cue ends, but merely fades out, and nobody knew what to do with it.

[Alan 689]

Well maybe Bloodboal is right then and the final month or two was just too up in the air to get it right. Perhaps they'll fix it for the EE. Whatever state the music in the film is in now I still trust in Shore's passion for this world he's helped to create and he's too big a part of the franchise to loose. The music of LOTR has continued to line the powers that be's pockets long after the films were done with.

[Faleel 5,359]

I wonder if perhaps Shore wrote/recorded new cues, than Jackson decided that even those new cues 'didnt work' for him and replaced theme with tracked music?

[Jay 37,371]

crocodile can you post a picture of the set standing up like I did?

As you can see it is already slightly torn on top. The funny thing is that I don't remember how it happened.

A shit packaging!

The booklet is inside.

Karol

Ah, thanks! Wow, the Water Tower Records version is SIGNIFICANTLY superior! I mean, the covers themselves are a thick, hearty material, not cheap cardboard like the Decca. Weird.