Howard Shore's An Unexpected Journey (Hobbit Part 1)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,715]

Oh BB you are such a little conspiracy monger!

Btw does anyone know what does the mysterious melody heard in Radagast the Brown (0:38-0:51 and 1:14-1:40) and Council of Elrond (6:43-) signify? Is this related to Radagast or the Necromancer?

[Quintus 5,399]

In that case I retract my earlier comment. Sorry Mr Adams (if you're reading).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Now he won't read anymore, because his tears prevent him from doing so!

[Incanus 5,715]

Out of the Frying Pan and A Good Omen make a pretty darn satisfying finale for this score. Tremendously dramatic and powerful action combined with a beautifully soaring emotional ending and that delicious statement of Smaug's Theme closing the curtain.

[LongTallJodie 59]

It's not used in LotR in such a scene, not even once.

My mistake then. Suppose I'm not as intimately familiar with it all as you guys. But I thought most of the "tracked" cues still worked well as I just enjoyed the film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Again, there are no tracked cues from the previous films used in The Hobbit!

[KK 3,307]

Btw does anyone know what does the mysterious melody heard in Radagast the Brown (0:38-0:51 and 1:14-1:40) and Council of Elrond (6:43-) signify? Is this related to Radagast or the Necromancer?

I was wondering the same thing, because the melody shows up in the White Council cue too. I doubt its a Necromancer theme. It could be related to Radagast however. Or even just a conceptual theme like the "Weakness and Redemption" motif in LotR.

Speaking of "Radagast the Brown", the more I listen to it, the more I love it. Honestly, I can't believe they cut out the children's choir in film! It would have worked so incredibly well in the scene (as far as I remember). The almost-apocalyptic chorus would really appropriately reflect Radagst rushing about the forest in worry.

I'd also like to hear the action cue that plays when the Bunnies of Doom take Radagast to Dol Goldur.

Out of the Frying Pan and A Good Omen for a pretty darn satisfying finale for this score. Tremendously dramatic and powerful action combined with a beautifully soaring emotional ending and that delicious statement of Smaug's Theme closing the curtain.

Those two cues are amongst the best of the year (if not the best). Out of the Frying Pan is an exhilarating action piece and A Good Omen is such a satisfying finale. I just love that choral opening! Beautiful stuff.

Again, there are no tracked cues from the previous films used in The Hobbit!

No. Instead more money was spent on re-recording the temp track...what a great alternative! -__-

And I thought the quotation of the Breaking of the Fellowship was tracked. Was that re-recorded too?

Having said that, I must say I sort of liked the pulsating version of the Nazgul theme in film. It still doesn't work in context and is incredibly jarring, but I'd like to get my hands on that cue.

[Incanus 5,715]

Btw does anyone know what does the mysterious melody heard in Radagast the Brown (0:38-0:51 and 1:14-1:40) and Council of Elrond (6:43-) signify? Is this related to Radagast or the Necromancer?

I was wondering the same thing, because the melody shows up in the White Council cue too. I doubt its a Necromancer theme. It could be related to Radagast however. Or even just a conceptual theme like the "Weakness and Redemption" motif in LotR.

Speaking of "Radagast the Brown", the more I listen to it, the more I love it. Honestly, I can't believe they cut out the children's choir in film! It would have worked so incredibly well in the scene (as far as I remember). The almost-apocalyptic chorus would really appropriately reflect Radagst rushing about the forest in worry.

I'd also like to hear the action cue that plays when the Bunnies of Doom take Radagast to Dol Goldur.

I thought the chanting children's choir underscored the frantic exorcism of Sebastian. I have to see the film again to refresh my memory of the outline of the scene.

Btw what the hell were the spiders doing in trying to get into Ragdy's house in the film? And why did they give up so suddenly?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

They stopped after Radagast drew the poison from that rodent.

[KK 3,307]

I still don't understood what that scene meant. What the poison have to do with the spiders coming and retracting. Wouldn't they still want to attack Radagast's homes. And why do the spiders look they came straight from Alice in Wonderland or something.

Btw does anyone know what does the mysterious melody heard in Radagast the Brown (0:38-0:51 and 1:14-1:40) and Council of Elrond (6:43-) signify? Is this related to Radagast or the Necromancer?

I was wondering the same thing, because the melody shows up in the White Council cue too. I doubt its a Necromancer theme. It could be related to Radagast however. Or even just a conceptual theme like the "Weakness and Redemption" motif in LotR.

Speaking of "Radagast the Brown", the more I listen to it, the more I love it. Honestly, I can't believe they cut out the children's choir in film! It would have worked so incredibly well in the scene (as far as I remember). The almost-apocalyptic chorus would really appropriately reflect Radagst rushing about the forest in worry.

I'd also like to hear the action cue that plays when the Bunnies of Doom take Radagast to Dol Goldur.

I thought the chanting children's choir underscored the frantic exorcism of Sebastian. I have to see the film again to refresh my memory of the outline of the scene.

No. I think it was just suspense music along with the statements of the Mordor Descending Third/Necromancer's Theme.

Oh how I wish we heard the fiddle and the choir! Heck, even that creepy statement of Sauron's theme didn't make it. Oh well.

Wow apparently my post at Doug Adams' blog, as harmless it was as I was just saying how Shore's original Dwarven music would have fitted the Azog/Thorin duel more than fine, was apparently moderated and didn't make it to the blog's discussion.

I didn't even mention the azog/thorin conflict. I just said the use of the score in film is a bit perplexing at times.

It looks like my comment failed the moderation process (comments posted long after me have made it). Guess I should have known better than write a comment like that. Doug is must be keeping things under the wrap.

[Incanus 5,715]

Wow apparently my post at Doug Adams' blog, as harmless it was as I was just saying how Shore's original Dwarven music would have fitted the Azog/Thorin duel more than fine, was apparently moderated and didn't make it to the blog's discussion.

I didn't even mention the azog/thorin. I just said the use of the score in film is a bit perplexing at times.

It looks like my comment failed the moderation process (comments posted long after me have made it). Guess I should have known better than write a comment like that. Doug is really keeping things under the wrap.

Could be that it takes a bit of time for the moderator (Doug?/someone else?) to approve the posts as mine appeared on the blog today (I had posted it yesterday).

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

It's probably as you said Incanus.

Strange though. Doug said he'd be more free on Friday to open up and discuss some things about the score. I wonder why he hasn't actually said anything since then.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

You mean the New Zealand goverment had Doug shipped to Istanbul to keep quiet while James Newton Howard's agent is moderating these comments?

Oh and I guess I posted this on the wrong thread:

I wonder if the "The Edge of the Wild" scores an extended scene. Maybe something to do with the Nazgul tombs (based on the Witch-King motif). It's probably a demo for one of the scenes that got cut.

[Incanus 5,715]

I wonder if the "The Edge of the Wild" scores an extended scene. Maybe something to do with the Nazgul tombs (based on the Witch-King motif). It's probably a demo for one of the scenes that got cut.

A good point! There is definitely something akin to the Witch-King motif (although it is a Fourth Age theme as well) heard on that track.

Oooh Doug posted another longer note on his blog!

[Jilal 569]

"Dreaming of Bag-End" was used in the end credits.

[KK 3,307]

Oooh Doug posted another longer note on his blog!

Ooh, he's come out his hobbit hole! Time to read!

[Incanus 5,715]

OK apparently the Nazgûl theme appearance will make sense, eventually. Doug can't divulge too much yet. But his insights were again very enlightening and exciting. This stuff is endlessly compelling. Another few years of it ahead for all of us.

[crocodile 8,017]

Interesting, so the re-recorded material seems to be part of some sort of design then...

Karol

[Incanus 5,715]

"Dreaming of Bag-End" was used in the end credits.

Good to know. I was a bit tired when I saw the film and left early during the credits and did not stay to hear the ending.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,715]

Interesting, so the re-recorded material seems to be part of some sort of design then...

That's just bullshit.

I am glad you are feeling sensible today BB.

[KK 3,307]

Yeah, to be honest, I don't buy any of it. The Nazgul theme connection may make sense after some far-fetched explanation, but there still remains the Gondor Reborn theme. Doug says the score in film is as it was meant to be and he calls it brilliant.

I just don't believe it. Consider how "temp-tracked" it sounds. Not to mention all the more original material replaced by almost direct TDKR-style passage quotations.

Something's real fishy here...

[Incanus 5,715]

Ya, to be honest, I don't buy any of it. The Nazgul theme connection may make sense after some far-fetched explanation, but there still lies the Gondor Reborn theme. Doug says the score in film is as it was meant to be and he calls it brilliant.

I just don't believe it. Consider how "temp-tracked" it sounds. Not to mention all the more original material replaced by almost direct TDKR-style passage quotations.

Something's real fishy here...

Are we leaning toward conspiracy theories now?

Let's at least first hear what the film makers might have to say before we fetch pitch forks and torches. I think asking questions is just good and being baffled by these adjustements to the score is just normal, when they feel abrupt or clunky. But we also tend to be rather cantankerous when on a hunt for answers.

[KK 3,307]

I'm not nearly as irritated as you make me out to be Incanus. I just find this a bit confusing. If this was really what the score was intended to be, then I can't help but be disappointed, because then it makes some parts no different from Zimmer's TDKR (where past passages were quoted with little-to-no difference). The strange thing though is that the album proves that Shore did write great new material for those scenes so he's no Zimmer...but it all got shafted for a more curious alternative.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,715]

I'm not nearly as irritated as you make me out to be Incanus. I just find this a bit confusing. If this was really what the score was intended to be, then I can't help but be disappointed, because then it makes some parts no different from Zimmer's TDKR (where past passages were quoted with little-to-no difference). The strange thing though is that the album proves that Shore did write great new material for those scenes so he's no Zimmer...but it all got shafted for a more curious alternative.

It is curious and as I said sometimes rather obvious, clunky and awkward but they have had their reasoning before (in LotR trilogy) for such changes so I am willing to hear it even though I might prefer the original or "in process" approach more than the finished version.

The only thing that would justify using the Nazgul theme for Azog is because his body is actually used as an avatar for one of the Nazgûl (by that I mean the Necromancer "resurrected" him by putting a Nazgûl's spirit in his body). And if that's what explain the use of this theme, then god help us all...

Uh-oh. You might have hit pretty close to the mark with that speculation BB. If so then heaven help us...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

The only thing that would justify using the Nazgul theme for Azog is because his body is actually used as an avatar by one of the Nazgûl (by that I mean the Necromancer "resurrected" him by putting a Nazgûl's spirit in his body). And if that's what explain the use of this theme, then god help us all...

Well since Azog is related to Mordor, I'm sure we could be with a dozen weak but somewhat adequate explanations. Azog is probably one of the "undead". And the Nazgul are also undead in Jackson's world, the "undead". So it naturally makes sense to put the Nazgul theme in there. Or the purpose of the Nazgul theme may now be shifted to represent Sauron's non-living forces. Or something as far fetched as your own theory.

Still doesn't explain the Gondor Reborn theme though. Unless all these old themes are having the designated purposes being re-shifted.

And I don't think you're theory works just because I see no reason why the Nazgul would be trying so hard to hunt down Thorin and his company when the Necromancer clearly has more important affairs for them to attend to. And there's a million other problems with that theory too...

...but then again, your frightening guesses are usually spot on, to the doom of us all!

[Incanus 5,715]

We would do well to start panicking now and continue for the next 2 years.

[crocodile 8,017]

Or maybe Nazgul's theme was Azog's before he got resurrected as a Ringwraith. Maybe that's what they mean.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,715]

Only a Bunny of Doom could predict such doomy affairs so accurately...

OMG! BB! Not you....

[KK 3,307]

And I don't think you're theory works just because I see no reason why the Nazgul would be trying so hard to hunt down Thorin and his company when the Necromancer clearly has more important affairs for them to attend to.

My theory is not far fetched. Not by any stretch of the imagination. It fits right in with PJ's lore. Remember: Gandalf wants the Dwarves to succeed so that Sauron won't be able to use Smaug during his war against the good guys, so obviously the Necromancer wants to stop them so their mission fails and so that he CAN use Smaug after all. Why else would Azog suddenly reappear after so many years to hunt Thorin? Why wait so long?

But if Sauron never suspected once in during the Quest of the Ring that the ring had been found by a hobbit and that all the races of Middle-Earth were supporting their quest to destroy it; what makes you think that Sauron would be aware of Gandalf's largely secretive quest whose true notions are only known to the White council (and that was AFTER the warg attack by Azog!).

And the film really did make it seem like a straight-forward vengeance affair.

Then again, your frightening guesses are usually spot on...to the doom of us all!

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh God, even I didn't suspected that the Bunnies of Doom would be as significant as they ended up being in the film.

Only a Bunny of Doom could predict such doomy affairs so accurately...

OMG! BB! Not you....

I always suspected it...deep in the shadows of my mind.

[Incanus 5,715]

Are there more than a couple of token appearances of the bonus track themes Dwarf Lords and Erebor in the actual score?

Oh btw Doug's blog continues the moderation of the posts. I found one error in my own post and corrected one word in my accepted message and now it is back to the moderator for approval and disappeared from the blog for the time being. I guess I have to be extra careful with writing messages there in the future.

[KK 3,307]

The theme from "Erebor" shows up in 2 or 3 more spots I think. And I heard a snippet of another theme at the end of Dwarf Lords and another cue (I'll look for it). I wouldn't be surprised if its like th brief intros of the Gondor and Minas Tirith themes in FotR.

I'm not nearly as irritated as you make me out to be Incanus. I just find this a bit confusing. If this was really what the score was intended to be, then I can't help but be disappointed, because then it makes some parts no different from Zimmer's TDKR (where past passages were quoted with little-to-no difference). The strange thing though is that the album proves that Shore did write great new material for those scenes so he's no Zimmer...but it all got shafted for a more curious alternative.

It is curious and as I said sometimes rather obvious, clunky and awkward but they have had their reasoning before (in LotR trilogy) for such changes so I am willing to hear it even though I might prefer the original or "in process" approach more than the finished version.

Thinking about it now, do you know what makes me doubt Doug's "everything here was as intended" proposition even more? There are varied statements of past motifs that were cool new fresh takes that good replaced by identical carbon copies of their past permutations. For instance, the fun variations of the Ring theme in "Riddles in the Dark" were completely replaced with a statement of the History of the Ring theme from LotR and the whole scene was tracked with a re-recorded version of "Lost in Emyn Muil" (from TTT). I especially remembered that as the ring fell from Gollum's keeping. Or the fact that TTT action music pops up here and there and in the Out of the Frying Pan chapter.

There's no way those were all scored as intended.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The Roasted Mutton OST Misty Mountain statement is fantastic and blood pumping.

But am I the only one that gives a slight edge to the lovely statement in "The World is Ahead" ?

[gkgyver 1,645]

The only thing that would justify using the Nazgul theme for Azog is because his body is actually used as an avatar for one of the Nazgûl (by that I mean the Necromancer "resurrected" him by putting a Nazgûl's spirit in his body). And if that's what explain the use of this theme, then god help us all...

Uh-oh. You might have hit pretty close to the mark with that speculation BB. If so then heaven help us...

Jesus!

I think that could be right! God help us all ...

[crocodile 8,017]

The Roasted Mutton OST Misty Mountain statement is fantastic and blood pumping.

Maybe, but overexposure to this theme over the months and it's overusage in the film make we want to snap little kitten's neck. I'm tired of it already. And, if you think about it, the melody never changes and it's kind of boring after a while.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sounded great in the film.

I think some fans are just disappointed that Shore didn't write it, and are having tier prissy and bitchy reaction to it.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Maybe, but overexposure to this theme over the months and it's overusage in the film make we want to snap little kitten's neck. I'm tired of it already. And, if you think about it, the melody never changes and it's kind of boring after a while.

The same could be said of Darth Vader's theme in ESB. But that's the point, sometimes a theme's gotta hammer you in the brain a few dozen times to make itself the defining theme of the movie, which the Misty Mountain theme is here.

I think some fans are just disappointed that Shore didn't write it, and are having tier prissy and bitchy reaction to it.

I agree. Boo hoo.

[crocodile 8,017]

No, but I admit it might be that everyone else thinks it's so cool and epic. Not here, but elsewhere. And no, it's not Vader's theme, which at least gets million different variations. This one is kind of stated in the same vein every single time.

It's great as a Dwarf song, though.

Karol

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

All in all, I prefer Bilbo's theme.

[crocodile 8,017]

Me too. It's not apparent when you first hear it, but when you do it sticks in your mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbHKo_EE_QE

Karol

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

That track rips out my heart and stomps on it at around 0:53.

It conjures up memories of home...and being a kid...and therefore...my mom.

Lovely theme.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I'm not bothered by the many statements of that theme. It sounds good.

Posted by Doug:

Suffice it to say, the score in the film is, by and large, exactly what Shore put on the page.

That I believe.

If it is true that Azog's theme will make sense, and Doug certainly doesn't tell lies, then the wraith theme for Azog is probably the one that is least puzzling.

Putting the Azog moment aside, the deeper question then is not whether or not the film version is what Shore put on the page, the question is "he put it there on whose behalf?"

It still does not explain why cues like Samwise the Brave or Master Peregrin's Plan or Lost In Emyn Muil or Gondor Reborn were used and recorded verbatim. Those are instances, especially with Riddles In The Dark, where thematic content wasn't an issue, and Howard Shore is a skillful composer who can, and did, write fresh versions of those themes.

And I simply don't believe he would reuse such lengthy, exact quotes from LotR on his own behalf, especially since he never did it without reason on the album.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I wont buy any explanation of the usage of the nazgul theme. (unless as suggested... azog is a nazgul..) then i wont buy any of that...

BTW, doesnt the music start when thorin decides to confront azog? as I saw it on the scene, this music was 'thorin heroics motif' so unless thorin is another nazgul...

I never bought the explanation on the nature theme for rohan, but at least horses are part of nature...

The rescoring of the eagles' rescue is great though. it should have been like that since the begining.

[crocodile 8,017]

I like both versions of the eagle rescue.

Karol