Howard Shore's An Unexpected Journey (Hobbit Part 1)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Joe Brausam 214]

The Water Tower release really does seem better - but the packaging material itself still pales in comparison to the material used for the SE's of the original films.

[crocodile 8,017]

You know, I don't really care all that much. The music is the same, booklet is the same. But it seems really weak as compared to the standard jewel case edition.

Ah well, I've got bigger things to worry about. Like the film itself, for example.

Karol

[Joe Brausam 214]

I do wonder what all this would mean for a theoretical CR type release in the future. To be honest, even though from an artistic standpoint the music situation in the film seems to be in pretty poor shape, I'm glad that we have an album preserving Shore's original intent. I just wonder how the worthwhile unreleased music will make it to market.

[crocodile 8,017]

I wonder what they're going to do with live to projection concerts. If there will be any, that is.

Karol

[Faleel 5,357]

So, any unreleased cues of note? Brassy shire theme?

[Joe Brausam 214]

I wonder what they're going to do with live to projection concerts. If there will be any, that is.

Karol

I think they were in the habit if restoring some cut material in the concerts, but this sounds like it would be a big job.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,017]

I wonder what they're going to do with live to projection concerts. If there will be any, that is.

Karol

I think they were in the habit if restoring some cut material in the concerts, but this sounds like it would be a big job.

Yes, here is an example from the opening of ROTK performance:

But in the case of The Hobbit that would mean changing a lot of the score and hence changing the film itself.

Karol

[gkgyver 1,645]

Unused in the film are:

"My Dear Frodo" 0:52-1:56

"The Adventure Begins" 0:00-1:13

"The World Is Ahead" 0:00-0:55

"Radagast The Brown" 0:15-0:50 (no choir), 0:50-1:15, I don't know exactly what's missing, it sounded like the whole thing was rescored, or pasted together. The extension from the SE apparently isn't there either.

"The Hill of Sorcery" 0:52-1:10, 3:00-3:20 (which really hurt the moment I thought)

"Moon Runes" 0:00-1:01 (not sure, but I don't remember hearing it, starts with the english horn in the film when Thorin hands Elrond the map)

"The White Council" (extended) the Rivendell/Necromancer music in the beginning; there is more missing here, two minutes or so, but I don't know the time stamps

"Over Hill" 1:10-2:20

"Riddles In The Dark" 0:00-1:44 (a snippet is used later), 2:29-4:15 (I'm pretty certain the rest isn't there as well, but I'm not sure)

"Brass Buttons" 0:20-1:19, 6:52-end

"Out Of The Frying-Pan" 3:42-4:13, 4:24-5:09 (different version), 5:10-5:16

"A Good Omen" 0:00-4:09, 5:00-end (complete rescoring)

"Dreaming of Bag End" in its entirety isn't there.

Those are the major ones. There are other small edits that I won't bother listing because I don't remember where they were.

So, any unreleased cues of note? Brassy shire theme?

Well, apparently, the film version of A Good Omen features a badass statement of the Reclamation Of Nature theme.

Also, after that, when the eagles fly to their mountain, there is a new thoroughly beautiful recording with a female soloist. That had my heart in an upbeat, until they plastered "Master Peregrin's Plan", followed by the effing Gondor Reborn theme over the finale.

[Faleel 5,357]

I had hoped Shore would rescore the finale, but I did NOT want "tracked" music from LOTR.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Even if it isn't tracked, and it's a new recording ... I mean, if you're going to record the piece anyway, why not have Howard Shore write an original piece. It doesn't have to be super-mind-boggling, but any original piece is better than reusing LotR.

I can hear how A Good Omen would play out in the film, and can't understand for the life of me why it was removed.

[Quintus 5,399]

Any reason why this thread isn't marked SPOILERS? Fucks sake the selfishness of posters and the selective moderation of our sometimes competent mod (who is also a freaking hypocrite) are perplexing to anyone hoping to remain as fresh as possible before seeing a movie like this. Have some consideration for crying out loud, sheesh.

Accidentally caught sight of some major details there guys, thanks a bunch.

[gkgyver 1,645]

What did we spoil?

The surprise that the ring is found? The completely unanticipated eagle rescue?

[Faleel 5,357]

Any reason why this thread isn't marked SPOILERS?

Why aren't you in the non-spoiler thread, your the one in the wrong.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Any reason why this thread isn't marked SPOILERS?

Why aren't you in the non-spoiler thread, your the one in the wrong.

Yes, how unforeseeable that once the film is out people would discuss the score in this thread. People want to visit threads that are active, but not spoiled at the same time. Does not compute.

[Quintus 5,399]

I'm referring to incidental film details which would have been nice to discover for myself, as posted on the last few pages - the debate abruptly morphing from speculation into actual explicit details from those who have seen it with no thought to notify wandering eyes first. It's my own stupid fault for forgetting how eager to be spoiled people are here.

Any reason why this thread isn't marked SPOILERS?

Why aren't you in the non-spoiler thread, your the one in the wrong.

Yes, how unforeseeable that once the film is out people would discuss the score in this thread. People want to visit threads that are active, but not spoiled at the same time. Does not compute.

Don't be a smart arse - dicuss all you like but would it hurt to show a little consideration for others? It takes very little effort. Of course it would be too much for someone like you though who lives in a bubble of all consuming unbridled gushing without care for anyone but yourself.

Anyway forget it, don't let me interrupt your ritual any further, I'm backing out.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I actually didn't read these posts by Doug before posting:

Has anyone taken a stab at a good chronological order for the special edition tracks? I know Doug Adams said they are arranged the way they are for "musical" reasons, but I'm curious if anyone has figured out where everything fits chronologically (if at all)?

I don't think Doug said anything about album sequencing at all, did he?

Well, I thought he did.

Doug, any idea why only 2 of the 6 "Special Edition-only" tracks were inserted into the flow of the main score, with 4 appearing at the end after the main presentation? Did Shore prefer it that way for a specific reason? Or was it a Water Tower Records decision?

It's presented this way for a specific musical reason. It will all make perfectly logical sense.

Ah! My apologies, I didn't realize you were talking about the bonus tracks -- thought you meant the main body of the score, which is essentially in film order.

Gotta keep track of my own posts!

I assume you can't really explain the appearance of the Nazgul theme and the Lorien theme in action mode (although this makes ore sense) yet.

As for the Ringwraiths, if you read between the lines of my previous post, I kind of did explain it. Studio prefers that I say no more for now.

You said that the main body of the score is essentially in film order.

It could be, and this is pure speculation, that the Nazgul statement is alternate music for the events happening in Dol Guldur earlier in the movie, and it was put in that scene with Thorin and Azog because time pressure didn't allow a full rescore.

Close?

[KK 3,307]

MY CDs JUST ARRIVED!!!

[Jay 37,369]

Sorry Quint but I gotta disagree with you and agree with others. This is a thread to discuss the score, of course those that have seen the score will comment on how the score is used in the film. What would you prefer to me have done, started a FOURTH Hobbit thread where only those that have seen the film discuss the film in?

[gkgyver 1,645]

Yes, a "Hobbit spoiler-free SCORE discussion thread".

[KK 3,307]

While I understand that a new thread is unneccessary, it is a bit frustrating to go scroll through to find details about the score only to learn about important spoilerific details about the film.

[Jay 37,369]

But the movie opens in less than 48 hours or is already out depending on your country. Why not just avoid the thread entirely until you've seen the film? What could anyone possibly learn about the score between now and seeing the film that can't wait?

Actually, here's a solution that should please everyone: How about we use SPOILER TAGS between now and say, Friday afternoon for any specific film details? Sound good?

I've gone and added spoiler tags to the last 4 pages where necessary

[Incanus 5,715]

The film is out, the soundtrack is out, why should be refrain from discussing the score in context at this point? If you do not want to be spoilerized, do not read the thread. Simple as that. But in spirit of camaraderie I will post everything in spoiler tags from now until next Monday to be on the safe side for those who do not want details divulged too early.

Still waiting for my Decca pressed flimsy cardboard Special Edition.

[Jay 37,369]

Can you cancel your order and import the Water Tower Records version from Amazon US instead? It would ship by the end of the day that you order it.

[Incanus 5,715]

Nah I will settle on the European pressing. I just care about the music. And Doug's learned liner notes.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

Can you cancel your order and import the Water Tower Records version from Amazon US instead? It would ship by the end of the day that you order it.

That's precisely what I did.

[tannhauser 101]

Sorry if this has been asked already, ive skipped reading the last few pages which are a little spoilery. Anyone else unable to get on musicoflotr.com? Says Im not invited!

[TownerFan 4,983]

Is any of the Bonus tracks from the SE heard in the film like Erebor or the Dwarf-Lords?

No as far as I can remember none of the four bonus tracks appear in the film.

"A Very Respectable Hobbit", "Erebor" and "Dwarf-Lords" sound very much like concert arrangements (or maybe early stabs at some of the main thematic material). "Edge of the Wild" instead seems more of an underscore cue, especially for the low, atmospheric ending bars (a bit of strange anti-climactic way to cap off the album imho).

Let's hear what Doug will say

PS: after reading the last few pages of this thread, I guess I was right in the end when I said a few days ago that it's Phantom Menace syndrome all over again

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I have to ask...why did Peter even bring Howard back?

Just hire a music editor and have em chop away at the vast amount of LotR music.

Re: SE Album. I'm such a sucker for bassy recordings. I like the low end mix when it kicks in. Sadly the high's don't sound as flighty as LotR CR recordings. As a whole, I prefer the wet mix of the CR as well.

It sounds...almost too close to a Shawn Murphy Job.

[Jay 37,369]

Well gang, I've completed my comparison of the Standard Edition OST to the Special Edition OST, and guess what?

Roast Mutton is NOT the only track on the Standard Edition that contains music not heard on the Special Edition!

Here's my spreadsheet that breaks it all down:

https://docs.google....U1E&output=html

All comparisons were done with my own FLAC rips of the USA Water Tower Records versions of both releases.

Basically,

1:51-2:31 of Old Friends on the Standard Edition is not found on the Special Edition! It's a nice whistle version of the Shire theme followed by music that recalls the Fireworks music from FOTR. In its place at roughly the same time stamp on the Special Edition version is the Rural setting of the Shire theme, basically straight out of Concerning Hobbits from FOTR. No fireworks music at all. I would guess this is just two different approaches to the same scene. The fireworks music is really missed on the SE version!

In Roast Mutton, 2:07-3:23 on the Standard Edition appears to be a re-scored version of the piece with the approximate same timestamp on the Special Edition. While the SE version uses a more mellow version of the Plan 9 theme and them some non-thematic underscore, the Standard OST version uses a high-energy, adrenaline-pumping version of the Plan 9 theme, and a little while later the Plan 9 theme plays again. This bit is really awesome!

The final bit of music on the Standard Edition that is not in the SE version is at the ending of Moon Runes, from 2:42-2:57. This is a lovely quiet setting of Thorin's Theme, in its place at roughly 3:08-3:19 on the SE is a woodwind version of the same theme.

[Jilal 569]

Thanks, Jason.

The violin motif and choral part from "Radagast the Brown" is not in the movie, unfortunately.

Hearing all this disappoints me... I really liked that theme. It fit the character from the trailers very well.

And The White Council... Well, that was one of my favourite tracks from the album.

[Bellosh 3,419]

Fuck can't wait to pick this up after seeing the movie! ahh!!

[Jay 37,369]

Has Doug made a post on some other forum or emailed anyone back as to why his blog is down?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Damien F 1,742]

Some of my favourite material from the OST is not in the movie especially the jig for Radagast (both the fiddle and the children's choir) and the glorious triumphant brass fanfare and strings from Out Of The Frying-pan. The ending with Smaug's theme blasting out of the trumpets was also omitted and that final shot is score-less.

The tracked music is jarring to anyone familar with the original scores. I found the inclusion of The Breaking of the Fellowship during an otherwise lovely conversation between Gandalf and Galadriel to be especially distracting.

To my knowledge, the awesome Lothorian theme has never been used to identify Rivendale (please correct me if I'm wrong) so although its action statement at the end of Warg Scouts is a thrilling listen, it makes no sense thematically. I wonder what an action version of the Rivendale theme would have been like instead.

More unforgivable though is the unfamous inclusion of the Nazgul theme during Thorin's fight with the defiler. It is cheap and completely disregards the careful thematic intelligence of the series. I don't believe that version of the theme was on CRs so it was either unreleased or (more likely) recorded for this movie. Either way, I can't imagine Shore was responsible.

The final battle contains more of the nature theme than the brief snippet on the OST would suggest. They sounded awesome and I hope they'll be released someday (although I couldn't tell if they were tracked but I really don't think so). I'm also pretty certain I heard one or two unreleased statements of the plan 9 theme also, especially during scenes where the dwarfs suddenly spring to the aid of a friend in trouble.

This music editing together with plan 9 providing the best and most memorable of the new themes certainly makes this score a very unexpected journey for us indeed. Hopefully there won't be anymore tracked music for the remaining two films.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Alan 689]

Honestly, I didn't hear that many nasty edits during the film. A lot of alternates yeah. Should make for an interesting CR somewhere down the line. I don't think there's any actual tracking just new recordings of old themes that, to me, seemed to be worked in to compositions and recorded that way. Some of them don't fit with what they were originally written for in LOTR, sure, but they worked well in the scenes they were put in.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Honestly, I didn't hear that many nasty edits during the film. A lot of alternates yeah. Should make for an interesting CR somewhere down the line. I don't think there's any actual tracking just new recordings of old themes that, to me, seemed to be worked in to compositions and recorded that way. Some of them don't fit with what they were originally written for in LOTR, sure, but they worked well in the scenes they were put in.

Yeah, well, that the music just works is not the quality standard for these films. That's what you say when Hans Zimmer churns out yet another clone score.

Newly recorded or not, it sounds precisely like the LotR cues, and that is absolutely distracting. And not very comforting.

More unforgivable though is the unfamous inclusion of the Nazgul theme during Thorin's fight with the defiler. It is cheap and completely disregards the careful thematic intelligence of the series. I don't believe that version of the theme was on CRs so it was either unreleased or (more likely) recorded for this movie. Either way, I can't imagine Shore was responsible.

It is a new recording. Maybe it was his idea. The question is just WHY?

[Incanus 5,715]

More unforgivable though is the unfamous inclusion of the Nazgul theme during Thorin's fight with the defiler. It is cheap and completely disregards the careful thematic intelligence of the series. I don't believe that version of the theme was on CRs so it was either unreleased or (more likely) recorded for this movie. Either way, I can't imagine Shore was responsible.

It is a new recording. Maybe it was his idea. The question is just WHY?

We demand answers goddamit!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No we dont!

I hate this feeling of entitlement that fanboys have!

No one owes us any answers.

And anyway it seems clear enough. The film was heavily restructured at a late date. Causing much of the score to be tinkered with.

Really no mystery.

[Incanus 5,715]

You are confusing demanding and deserving perhaps in your post but obviously more smileys should be sprinkled in my posts to indicate their jocund nature. Chill Stefan!

Well gang, I've completed my comparison of the Standard Edition OST to the Special Edition OST, and guess what?

Roast Mutton is NOT the only track on the Standard Edition that contains music not heard on the Special Edition!

Here's my spreadsheet that breaks it all down:

https://docs.google....U1E&output=html

All comparisons were done with my own FLAC rips of the USA Water Tower Records versions of both releases.

Basically,

1:51-2:31 of Old Friends on the Standard Edition is not found on the Special Edition! It's a nice whistle version of the Shire theme followed by music that recalls the Fireworks music from FOTR. In its place at roughly the same time stamp on the Special Edition version is the Rural setting of the Shire theme, basically straight out of Concerning Hobbits from FOTR. No fireworks music at all. I would guess this is just two different approaches to the same scene. The fireworks works is really missed on the SE version!

In Roast Mutton, 2:07-3:23 on the Standard Edition appears to be a re-scored version of the piece with the approximate same timestamp on the Special Edition. While the SE version uses a more mellow version of the Plan 9 theme and them some non-thematic underscore, the Standard OST version uses a high-energy, adrenaline-pumping version of the Plan 9 theme, and a little while later the Plan 9 theme plays again. This bit is really awesome!

The final bit of music on the Standard Edition that is not in the SE version is at the ending of Moon Runes, from 2:42-2:57. This is a lovely quiet setting of one of the Dwarf themes, in its place at roughly 3:08-3:19 on the SE is a woodwind version of the same theme.

Excellent work (as usual) Jason!

[TownerFan 4,983]

Honestly, I didn't hear that many nasty edits during the film. A lot of alternates yeah. Should make for an interesting CR somewhere down the line.

Maybe the Special Edition release already represents Shore's intended, original ideas and concepts... hence it makes a CR a bit unnecessary. Maybe the unreleased bits and pieces (esp. the ones from the pick-up sessions) will find another way to be properly released, like digital download or a new "Rarities" release.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I didnt notice nasty editses !

[Incanus 5,715]

In the film? Oh there were plenty of small things nipped and tugged. But that is normal for any film.

On the whole I didn't spot very many unreleased cues as such apart from the Goblin Town and Gollum sequences. But I was rather engrossed in the story throughout to make a mental note of every musical change.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

So the SE is by all accounts the best representation of Shore's reported originality and the most cohesively enjoyable version of the score available?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,715]

So the SE is by all accounts the best representation of Shore's reported originality and the most cohesively enjoyable version of the score available?

Yes.

BB beat me to it in the details of what are the differences on the regular OST. Quick sort of chap isn't he.

[BloodBoal 7,538]