Howard Shore's The Battle of the Five Armies (Hobbit Part 3)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its a decent performance, but a live recording

[crocodile 8,020]

I don't recall it being bad at all. And I like Kaitlyn Lusk, she's really versatile. I've seen her perform live on a few occasions and her range is impressive.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

If you want a shorter version of the scores, then its a valid option. The CR's are great, but really really long

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Even shorter then that!

[crocodile 8,020]

We wants it. We needs it.

Karol

[Jay 37,374]

I just didn't hear anything good about the symphony and have no problems with the original recordings.

[crocodile 8,020]

Yes but your collection is not complete without it.

Speaking of which I created an iTunes playlist of every single album released in the series and symphony and Rarities. Just to see how much stuff is there. It's about 23-24 hours of music!

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Just wait till the sessions leak!

[crocodile 8,020]

Oh gosh.

Karol

[KK 3,307]

Of course, I was exaggerating. But I still don't find it really spectacular, and definitely not better than the CRs, so I just don't see any reason to buy it.

Yeah, I'm not too big a fan of the performance. The slower tempis and general OST based presentation doesn't make me revisit it often.

It's definitely an experience worth having in a live setting.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Id go and see it in a proper symphony hall rather then the huge sports stadium i saw it in a decade ago.

Still can't live with the horrible removal of The Fellowship Theme from the climax of The Bridge Of Khazad Dum

[gkgyver 1,645]

Missed a lot of BS in this thread. Video game scores are often excellent, surpassing film scores. Anyone who dismisses the medium is a severe idiot, who apparently has no conception of one of the most common follies of historical idiots: dismissing things.

At the same time, this score is anything but generic, falling short of the two previous installments in its distinctiveness only because of the one-note nature of the film. But to deny the firmly above-average quality of the music likely has more to do with classic JWFan past-worship and nostalgia than with clearheaded musical judgement.

You seem to have also missed that I didn't dismiss video game scores. I said it makes NO sense to compare them to film scores because requirements and boundaries are different. So, comparing BOTFA to some video game is absurd.

I recall liking it, but preferring the Silva Screen compilation by the TCOPF

WTF?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I gather you don't?

[gkgyver 1,645]

Who would prefer adapted material over material chosen by the composer, recorded in the presence of the composer?

Speaking of Howard Shore:

MTV: There’s been all this back and forth over the past few days, where Ian McKellan said, “I don’t think Peter Jackson Is done with Middle Earth yet,” and then Peter Jackson said “Nope, I’m done with Middle Earth.”

So what’s your take on it? Where is Peter’s head at, and would you want to come back if there was a seventh Middle Earth film of some sort?

Shore: Well I do love Middle Earth, I mean I love working in the world. I would say, never say never. I think Peter references having rights to other works. This may well be it. These six films… So I guess we’ll see. But never say never, it would be lovely to make a return at some point to the world.

[KK 3,307]

By the way, Shore doesn't rule out coming back to Middle-earth at some point.

Karol

[Jay 37,374]

I have a million thoughts on the score to this film now that I've seen the film, but for now I'll say this:


-Much like the way Shore took the "Barrels of of Bond" melody and turned it into a new theme for Bilbo sneaking around, he took the little melody for Alfrid's introduction in DOS and extended it to an outright theme for him here. Odd that none of those appearances made the OST album, because it was used either 3 or 4 times for him in the film. Some of them where really fun!

-The Arkenstone gets either 1 or 2 additional moments to shine in the film (that aren't on the OST). Sounded really great!

-Wow, one moment I did not expect was a final appearance of Bard's DOS theme. I mean, after hearing the "Fire and Water" OST track, where Shore takes his sullen and moody DOS theme and turns it into a heroic one, I assumed that for sure that was the final appearance of that theme, what that theme was building up to the whole time. Especially when his new Leader theme shows up in the very next track. But nope, when he appears on the shores of the lake behind Alfrid, his old DOS theme plays in a final, kind of extra murky setting. It was neat!

-Speaking of "Fire and Water', it's not just microedited on the OST, it's HEAVILY EDITED. Shore's original cue must be twice this length - I'm not joking. On CD, the cue is 6 minutes long. The BOFA title card appears over twelve minutes into the movie. TWELVE. WHY couldn't Shore have put the complete version of this cue on the SE OST? WHY!? Ah!

-As others have mentioned, once the battle starts the music is so hacked up and moved around it's going to be a nightmare to figure it all out. Everything before that shouldn't be too bad to figure out.

-Lots of cues featured additional overlays in the film, some of them where really cool!

-I'm sorry, but I don't think Shore stuck the landing with this score at all. I love Shore and I love these scores, but the finale is a big wasted opportunity IMHO. I mean, after the auction, with Bilbo inside his home, and then the jump the FOTR-Bilbo greeting Gandalf, you have this opportunity to write a great concluding cue, bringing Bilbo's great Main Theme to a conclusion, and instead we get music I still don't even remember. The finale of this amazing six film score experience deserves better. I pray there is a recorded alternate somewhere and this subdued music we got was a requested rewrite from PJ!

It's also a shame Shore didn't write a nice, either all 3 or all 6 film encompassing end credits suite to properly conclude his saga. I love the ending of the end credits for ROTK! Instead here we get two concert arrangements of music on CD that feel like they took 8 different roughly 1 minute theme presentations, recorded them, then edited them together into two tracks. And in the film we get a cloying song followed by music that relates to this film only, with no specific throughline or coherence. It sounded like parts of Ironfoot and Dragon Sickness with parts of actual film cues edited in as well. The whole thing sounded like a music editor's assembly.

Seriously though - overall the score is great - I already like it more than before now that I know all the scenes the music goes with - but I wish it had a more satisfying ending.

[Incanus 5,716]

Smaug's Attack on Lake-Town is indeed much shorter than in the film. I suspect Shore wanted to create a coherent listening experience with constant drive rather that cut it midway for the quieter music of the Erebor point of view stuff. Sadly.

Bard's theme doesn't disappear after the opening. You can hear another heroic variation of the old DoS theme later on the Battle for the Mountain track (4;24-) as he saves his children.

The finale of the score was very suitable from the story's point of view. This is not the big ending of the entire piece, just a midpoint and hence there is no BIG end moment to bring things to a major emotional closure as that comes at the end of Lord of the Rings really. But I can certainly see where you are coming from Jason. At first I was a tad dissatisfied but after seeing the film my reaction was the opposite and I thought Shore gave Bilbo's return enough warmth and feeling of accomplishment but his score really followed Peter Jackson's direction and script by being more a setup for The Fellowship of the Ring than finale to end 6 films. Plus he managed to sneak wisps of Bilbo's own music into this score despite PJ not wanting to use it that much.

The end credits as in the film are atrocious editing job with no feel of arc to it. Even the LotR credits are better in this regard. But obviously they did not for the above reason treat this as the big end (although in a way it really is that) but rather 3rd in a 6 part series. Billy Boyd's song is the only thing that actually has that feeling but the Ironfoot suite (which I really dig) and the film version of the credits treat this as any other film without much nostalgic charge to them.

[MedigoScan 324]

yes the alfrid pieces and the full Fire&Water cue are what I want the most now from future possible CRs

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I believe both PJ and Shore realised that TBOTFA is not the true ending of this series of films and opted for a relatively low key finish.

Its a logical and defendable decision.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,020]

I liked the ending. And music that goes with it.

Karol

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Is there anyone here who's happy with the mix on the CD?

It sounds just a bit too....Brian Tyler

[Incanus 5,716]

Is there anyone here who's happy with the mix on the CD?

It sounds just a bit too....Brian Tyler

Yeah I think the mix is too wet and buries some of the details, favoring more a really big bassy sound. I'd like to hear the separation of the instrumental sections better.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its very loud and closely miked, but lacking in depth.

Very fitting for the movie I guess.

[Jim Ware 526]

I recall liking it, but preferring the Silva Screen compilation by the TCOPF

That doesn't use the original orchestrations.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Is that supposed to be an issue? Apart from some of the early tracks I like the performance. And you can hear the choral texts a lot better then the OST's.

Its a version of LOTR that truly sounds different. And it has value because of that.

[aj_vader 534]

The Desolation of Smaug (in terms of production, mixing and mastering) sounds better than The Battle of the Five Armies. I'm quite disappointed with score overall, although it does have some great 'Theme' moments.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The score mainly consists of "theme moments".

I like it, but it might be too much of a patchwork of pre-excisting themes.

[aj_vader 534]

The score mainly consists of "theme moments".

I like it, but it might be too much of a patchwork of pre-excisting themes.

Missed a huge opportunity for powerful Mordor material in Dol Guldor

[crocodile 8,020]

If you had that in Dol Guldur, what would you do with The Lord of the Rings?

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thats my point. Shore drops in countless statements of pre-excisting themes, and that's basically it.

I do seem to recall ROTK being more then just that.

[Incanus 5,716]

Thats my point. Shore drops in countless statements of pre-excisting themes, and that's basically it.

I do seem to recall ROTK being more then just that.

What would you have the music do specifically? All the themes are gathered, there are no new cultures to introduce. Isn't the whole style of these scores that they present a very purposeful flow of leitmotifs to illustrate the action and the story? To my ears the score for BotFA does just that.

I don't even begrudge the big epic main theme never surfacing. I never thought these scores to be about big main theme anyway but about this wealth of material which is constantly developing and shifting and helping to tell the story.

[aj_vader 534]

If you had that in Dol Guldur, what would you do with The Lord of the Rings?

Karol

Well we've had huge Mordor/Sauron statements throughout the Hobbit Trilogy (most cut out). Then when Sauron finally appears in BOTFA it's just a solo voice, rather peaceful music. Felt really out of place.

[Incanus 5,716]

If you had that in Dol Guldur, what would you do with The Lord of the Rings?

Karol

Well we've had huge Mordor/Sauron statements throughout the Hobbit Trilogy (most cut out). Then when Sauron finally appears in BOTFA it's just a solo voice, rather peaceful music. Felt really out of place.

It's PJ, aj_vader, PJ.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sure. But like I said. ROTK was more then just a patchwork of themes.

Whats the greatest stretch of music in TBOTFA without using any previously established thematic material? It cant be more then a minute or two.

There just seems something a bit too cut and paste about the way Shore uses his themes in this score.

Maybe unavoidable due to the frantic nature of the film, but I dunno.

[aj_vader 534]

If you had that in Dol Guldur, what would you do with The Lord of the Rings?

Karol

Well we've had huge Mordor/Sauron statements throughout the Hobbit Trilogy (most cut out). Then when Sauron finally appears in BOTFA it's just a solo voice, rather peaceful music. Felt really out of place.

It's PJ, aj_vader, PJ.

Yeah you've got a good point

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,716]

Is there anyone here who's happy with the mix on the CD?

No.

We moaned about it on pages and pages. It all started here: http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24673&page=94#entry1069007

Is Faleel going to do something about it! Well, is he?!!!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I don't aprove of fanboy tinkering with the equalizer button

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Wojo 2,453]

Equalizer? Shit, I don't even touch the volume knob without getting precise instructions from the album label. Who am I to determine what volume level is correct for the particular album and my unique setting, it's not up to me.

[KK 3,307]

Is there anyone here who's happy with the mix on the CD?

It sounds just a bit too....Brian Tyler

Yeah I think the mix is too wet and buries some of the details, favoring more a really big bassy sound. I'd like to hear the separation of the instrumental sections better.

Really? Ithink the problem is it's not wet enough. Too dry, too close-mic-ed, with a thin sound for the strings.

And I wouldn't call BOTFA patchwork at all. But it doesn't feel as wholesome as ROTK, but most of that could be tied to the film. Which is often unfocused, and leaves little room to score it ROTK style. With that film, Shore could base the whole thing on strains of the Ring temr because there was an ultimate goal, and forward direction and momentum in the film.

With BOTFA, stuff just happens. And things just pop up in screen.

I like the ending. Was disappointed myself at first, but it was a perfect decision. Shore isn't scoring it with the sweeping finale of ROTK, because this isn't that kind of film. It's much smaller, and it ends where the next trilogy begins. In fact, if you listen, you'll notice that the final chord of the score is the very first chord that the Shire scenes open with in FOTR. And I think boy PJ and Shore agreed to go for a more understated ending, which works just fine.

Yeah! I don't want to play album producer. They should do a better mix and run a "CD replacement" campaign.

Well there's already our re-recording kickstarter campaign!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with KK. Usually these recordings have been quite wet and reverbery, like they were performed in a massive hall. TBOTFA sounds like its a big orchestra crammed into a tiny space. No room for the sound to breathe.

[Incanus 5,716]

Equalizer? Shit, I don't even touch the volume knob without getting precise instructions from the album label. Who am I to determine what volume level is correct for the particular album and my unique setting, it's not up to me.

Yeah it is part of the listening experience provided by the label and composer! Thor would approve!

I agree with KK. Usually these recordings have been quite wet and reverbery, like they were performed in a massive hall. TBOTFA sounds like its a big orchestra crammed into a tiny space. No room for the sound to breathe.

Ironic when they used the magnificent Wellington Town Hall which has enormous acoustics perfect for big music. My main complaint is that it sounds very loud and buries details and doesn't have good separation of the orchestral layers.

[KK 3,307]

Indeed, strange indeed! It's probably because they were recording with close mics. DoS had a similar problem, but it was less obvious. The percussion and string ostinati have never sounded worse.

[BloodBoal 7,538]