Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 They probably recorded with closer mics this time so PJ could ask for separate orchestra sections only when working on the final mix of the film's audio. Which means we album listeners have to suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 LOL. Interesting how the blame always shifts back to PJ. Not Shore, not the recording team or Pope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm not asking for an overblown emotional finale! I love The Return Journey, which is quite understated. The reason I don't like There And Back Again is not because it's not overly emotional or whatever: it's just that it's basically comprised of music we've heard a thousand times before. It's basically a copy-paste job of the History Of The Ring theme statement from the FOTR prologue and some Shire theme statement similar to the ones we've heard before. Nothing to get excited about, really.Yes, that is exactly what I meant as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 It does seem like there's a lot of very familiar music in this score but at the same time more listenable to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 well when its done so on purpose, I find it hard to dislike it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 It does seem like there's a lot of very familiar music in this score but at the same time more listenable to meI think he assembled a pretty listenable OST here, despite the fact it's far from complete.The score overall is good, though I wish the ending was stronger.I think the EE cues will feature some of the best material the score has to offer. It's annoying to think we might never get to hear them in full if they are hacked up and dialed in and out in the final EE, and there is no CR release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Most of Shore's Middle Earth music sounds like it's meant to be edited and cut and moved aroundThere's no inherent structure to a cue like Williams where every little bit has a purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Most of Shore's Middle Earth music sounds like it's meant to be edited and cut and moved around There's no inherent structure to a cue like Williams where every little bit has a purpose You really think that way? Wow. I think The Fellowship Of The Ring's score has a super strong inherent structure, throughline, and purpose. I do agree that from ROTK on, he tended to write shorter cues, as PJ began sending him edited footage in smaller chunks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 ROTK, shorter cues? It has some of the longest musical sequences of the entire trilogy!And some of the shortest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 lol"What the hell is wrong with you?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Don't you mean:"What is it with you anyway?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I think it would have been nice if Shore had used music accompanying the final image of Bilbo's map to connect the Thorin / House of Dúrin themes with those similar Shire phrases heard when Gandalf picks up the map in The Fellowship of the Ring. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I loved the callback to the opening of The Ring Goes South when Bilbo gets the Mitril shirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I like the first cue on disk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Well...it's a start mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 917 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I have only just bought this so I'm still ripping my copy at the moment. Having said that, I enjoyed the music when I heard it in the film (I went to see it today) so here's hoping they do CR releases for all three films (not likely until all three EEs are out). While they're at it, they could poke Amazon up the backside and get them to make it so that they stock the LOTR CEs properly as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 I think it would have been nice if Shore had used music accompanying the final image of Bilbo's map to connect the Thorin / House of Dúrin themes with those similar Shire phrases heard when Gandalf picks up the map in The Fellowship of the Ring.YES! Something like that would have been SO COOL!Anything than the nondescript cue we got.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Well...it's a startHe must be listening to the wrong thing. There are no cues on The Hobbit soundtrack. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Actually.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Wait, you thought it sounded a little familiar? You didn't immediately recognize the specific reference?Have you not listened to the FOTR OST or CR that many times or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Listen to the opening of the track! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 All The Hobbit scores have references to bits from LOTR that you weren't expecting Shore to turn into a theme (at least, I wasn't).And then the one bit I *was* expecting him to turn into a theme (the music that plays when Gandalf looks at Bilbo's map), he didn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 The "Gandalf looking at the map" music? Yea, it's in "Old Friends" three times, but doesn't really represent anything specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 And then the one bit I *was* expecting him to turn into a theme (the music that plays when Gandalf looks at Bilbo's map), he didn't! Although arguably he did, of course! In my judgement, the fact that not just one but both of the melodic patterns used in the map scene are used for Thorin and The House of Dúrin (which are really just two incarnations of the same underlying theme) suggests a very high probability that the similarity was a conscious decision on Shore's part. I mean, that he deliberately grew the dwarf themes out of those seeds. It's just not absolutely clear-cut, so it remains something for the likes of us to quibble over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 You know that's the thing - when I first heard Thorin's Theme - to ME, it was clearly inspired by the "Gandalf looking at the map" music. But then I talked to John Takis about it and he convinced me I was wrong!!! Was I right the whole time?A more specific reference to the map music does turn up in Old Friends 3 times though, most notably when Gandalf carves the mark on Bilbo's door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I guess only Howard Shore can tell us whether the correspondence is deliberate or accidental, but in either case the musical relationship is very real and, since it makes perfect narrative sense, I can't help but connect the two in my mind. The fact that the map music is used directly for the scene with Gandalf vandalising the door means that that particular motif has an identity of its own, but there's no reason why that should rule out a fundamental connection with Thorin. Can you remember what John Takis had against the idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Glóin the Dark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Well I feel like it represents Gandalf's nudge out of the door, when he puts the mark on the door. Yeah, that's how I would view it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 He just thought it wasn't related directly to Thorin's theme.It's obviously the same theme used for the door scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Arwen's Theme does NOT return in The Hobbit score!!! The "Elven healing" theme does.http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23907 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 It doesn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I feel like Doug's book being released before The Hobbit made some themes seem odd and out of place. If it were released after all six films, he could make the scores seem more coherent.What?It's not Doug who should make the themes coherent. Thats' the responsibility of Howard Shore!Shore didnt compose anything for LOTR with the idea that it would be clear after he finished The Hobbit a decade later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I just nicked this page from Howard Shore's house, in a notebook entitled "How I came up with all of the themes for The Hobbit". The first line is a sketch of the map theme as heard in The Fellowship of the Ring. Incontrovertible proof! SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Well gentlemen, there is this thing called temp-tracking which might have also played a role in this production. At least the "Elven healing theme" (AKA Arwen's theme as it really is a connecting passage in her theme) and the appearance of Sauron's theme at his reveal in DoS sound both like cases of film makers putting in a certain piece or version of a theme they liked and stuck to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 You won't find anything about temp tracking, or the influence of the director on the composition process anywhere in Doug's book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I liked Sauron's variations in An Unexpected Journey. The ones that don't quite find their resolution yet.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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