crocodile 8,017 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 While I think the main theme is sort of average by Powell's standards (who is a very good melodist actually) his secondary theme is not bad.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Do you consider the main one to be the one featured prominently in Mine Escape, and the secondary theme the one in Floating / Neverland Ahoy? If so, I disagree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 They both appear in the first track. First the main one and then the second one.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,515 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 They're both good themes in different ways. The first one is typical Powell, quite straightforward and pleasant to listen to, but not hugely original. The second one has a really interesting build-up which I like, and is probably Powell trying to be experimental.Overall it's nowhere near the level of HTTYD but still very enjoyable to listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 So, anyone else besides me prefers this one more over the HTTYD scores?Anyone?Anyone?Any... one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 While I think the main theme is sort of average by Powell's standards (who is a very good melodist actually) his secondary theme is not bad.KarolThe second theme in the overture is quite beautiful actually.The score as a whole is disappointingly a step back from the progress made in HTTYD 2, but it certainly has its moments. I'll elaborate more later.- KK, currently cracking on a Pan review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 - KK, currently cracking on a Pan review.MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 So, anyone else besides me prefers this one more over the HTTYD scores?Anyone?Anyone?Any... one.. Pan got nothing on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 That's not fair! You included Flying With Mother, which is one of the few HTTYD tracks I really dig!Apart from that, though, nope, still don't connect to that music (especially stuff like the second half of Hiccup Confronts Drago).I'd rather take this, not matter how flawed it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 The problem is all that is very standard Powell, as well done as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 The problem is all that is very standard Powell, as well done as it is.HTTYD? I agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,515 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I think there's a big difference between HTTYD and HTTYD2.HTTYD2 was great, one of Powell's best.But HTTYD was LEGENDARY! And far and away the best animated film score of the 21st century in my (humble) opinion.The main difference between those two scores was the cohesion in the first one. Not only was every track a great piece of music, but the entire thing was very well structured. When the Test Drive theme arrived in the final battle it was one of those "Holy Shit" moments that was missing in the second film. Not to mention the ending sequence. It was all just brilliantly balanced. And I think a large part of this was due to the movie itself, in fact.HTTYD2 had great individual tracks (e.g. Flying with Mother). But it lacked the cohesion IMO and just didn't feel as inspired.I'm just saying this to make it clear that when I say "HTTYD" I specifically refer to the first film, not to the second film (or the overall series).Pan I would place somewhere around HTTYD2 or Mars Needs Moms (pretty close together). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,357 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Interesting that you felt HTTYD2 was uninspired, since it sounded the least RC sounding of his scores to me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I'd say How To Train Your Dragon 2 and Mars Needs Moms both show the height of John Powell's abilities within his extrovert bombastic style.Yes, How To Train Your Dragon felt more cohesive but that's because the second score is a literal act two. He doesn't really bother restating his original themes as much and they are now taken for granted. It is now a developing story and new themes, particularly the multifaceted and ambivalent lost/found theme, form the emotional core. The new ideas of the sequel, while not having a simplistic appeal of its predecessor, are a sign of a musically maturing world. And that is no small achievement. I hope he manages to push it even further score in the third one.Overall, I'd say the first score was a pinnacle of the adolescent RC sound that Powell was developing over the years. And the second score becomes much more classically symphonic. Even if it is still ridiculously overblown in that respect.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,357 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I'd say How To Train Your Dragon 2 and Mars Needs Moms both show the height of John Powell's abilities within his extrovert bombastic style.Yes, How To Train Your Dragon felt more cohesive but that's because the second score is a literal act two. He doesn't really bother restating his original themes as much and they are now taken for granted. It is now a developing story and new themes, particularly the multifaceted and ambivalent lost/found theme, form the emotional core. The new ideas of the sequel, while not having a simplistic appeal of its predecessor, are a sign of a musically maturing world. And that is no small achievement. I hope he manages to push it even further score in the third one.KarolYeah, I wonder if HTTYD3 will follow the tradition of third score melancholy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 The little Burt Bacharach-inspired section of Flying with Mother (1:20 in the soundtrack) is one the most inventive sections of any film composer's carreer I'd dare say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 So, anyone else besides me prefers this one more over the HTTYD scores?Anyone?Anyone?Any... one.. You are alone in your misguided viewpoint.But... I will say this: Pan, despite all my reservations, is still inexplicably present on my daily playlist. It is a work of someone with an actual talent and, as such, impossible to really dislike.Happy now?Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 That's not fair! You included Flying With Mother, which is one of the few HTTYD tracks I really dig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Even you cannot dislike the awesome power of Forbidden Friendship! Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Brilliant cue! One of my favorites of any film score to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,357 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I love how its the first joining of the Friendship ostinato and Friendship theme together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 So, anyone else besides me prefers this one more over the HTTYD scores?Anyone?Anyone?Any... one.. You are alone in your misguided viewpoint.It's no misguided viewpoint, but OK...But... I will say this: Pan, despite all my reservations, is still inexplicably present on my daily playlist. It is a work of someone with an actual talent and, as such, impossible to really dislike.Happy now?Only partially...Even you cannot dislike the awesome power of Forbidden Friendship!Meh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 You prefer Pan over HTTYD?Wow.Pan is completely average Powell to me (I like 3 cues), whereas HTTYD is a composer having a lot of fun and showing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I'll accept your apologies when you'll be familiar with the score and end up liking it more!BloodBoal was right all along! We should have listened to him! It's a fun score! Can he forgive me for doubting him?I do, Richard, I do. But that's because I like you. And because I know you won't make that mistake again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Bloodboal, exactly how many times have you listened to HTTYD? Have you listened to the FYC promos for each? Said another way, have you listened to the score without the shitty mastering of the official albums? It's ridiculous how much of a difference that makes. Pan is decent, but as with John Williams, there really is no comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Brilliant cue! One of my favorites of any film score to be honest.Me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 What does TGP think of John's latest?Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 He hasn't heard it fully yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 He'll probably feel the same way as all of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I actually don't feel as strongly about HTTYD as so many others do here. I don't find much reason to go back to that score. But HTTYD 2 is really good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Speaking of my favourite theme from this score, BloodBoal (which you wrongfully hail as superior to HTTYD ), this arrangement is quite good (at the very first start of this track): It's a really interesting transformation. For comparison, here is the version heard in the first track (starts at 1:06): I love how ambivalent and elusive this melody is. You can find it in many tracks but it's often stated only in fragments.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Yes. The melodic transformations throughout the score are all expertly done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Speaking of my favourite theme from this score, BloodBoal (which you wrongfully hail as superior to HTTYD ),As I thought, you guys are misunderstanding my opinion on the score! As I said when I first posted my thoughts on the score:I'm probably in the minority here (or maybe even the only one around here), but I think I prefer this score over Powell's How To Train Your Dragon scores. Sure, the latter are probably technically superior, better structured, etc. Yet, I connect more to the to the themes and the music overall of PanI don't consider Pan to be superior to HTTYD. I reckon the HTTYD scores are overall stronger scores, better written, etc. But they do little for me, emotionally. I personally prefer the music of Pan.You would have known that, had you decided to read my post instead of ignoring it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I actually prefer the theme croc pointed out to many of the HTTYD themes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Speaking of my favourite theme from this score, BloodBoal (which you wrongfully hail as superior to HTTYD ),As I thought, you guys are misunderstanding my opinion on the score! As I said when I first posted my thoughts on the score:I'm probably in the minority here (or maybe even the only one around here), but I think I prefer this score over Powell's How To Train Your Dragon scores. Sure, the latter are probably technically superior, better structured, etc. Yet, I connect more to the to the themes and the music overall of PanI don't consider Pan to be superior to HTTYD. I reckon the HTTYD scores are overall stronger scores, better written, etc. But they do little for me, emotionally. I personally prefer the music of Pan.You would have known that, had you decided to read my post instead of ignoring it!Ok you wrongfully personally prefer Pan. Fine. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Yeah but let's not get ahead of ourselves - it's craftsmanlike and has some good moments but there's a lot of water treading in between. And HTTYD, as good as it is, has its downsides too, though in both cases a more strict album editor could've fixed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I actually prefer the theme croc pointed out to many of the HTTYD themes. Ok you wrongfully personally prefer Pan. Fine. Yeah but let's not get ahead of ourselves - it's craftsmanlike and has some good moments but there's a lot of water treading in between. And HTTYD, as good as it is, has its downsides too, though in both cases a more strict album editor could've fixed that.Oh, yeah, definitely. The album presentation is far from perfect. But I'm sure that with a recording session leak, you could make a solid selection of cues, with a better balance between action material and calmer stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Speaking of my favourite theme from this score, BloodBoal (which you wrongfully hail as superior to HTTYD ),As I thought, you guys are misunderstanding my opinion on the score! As I said when I first posted my thoughts on the score:I'm probably in the minority here (or maybe even the only one around here), but I think I prefer this score over Powell's How To Train Your Dragon scores. Sure, the latter are probably technically superior, better structured, etc. Yet, I connect more to the to the themes and the music overall of PanI don't consider Pan to be superior to HTTYD. I reckon the HTTYD scores are overall stronger scores, better written, etc. But they do little for me, emotionally. I personally prefer the music of Pan.You would have known that, had you decided to read my post instead of ignoring it!So we're all just misunderstanding you? You think you're smarter than all of us? You must if you feel compelled to explain things to us. Will you respond to every criticism of this score explaining why the person is wrong? Well, will you? HUH?!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 BB, no need to be ashamed that you like this score so much. I do accept you the way you are. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Aww that's so sweet you are taking your time to photoshop my photo. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Bahahahaha!How To Train Your Dragon > Pan > How To Train Your Dragon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Surely, you can't be serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 How to Train Your Dragon 2 > How to Train Your Dragon > Pan (haven't heard much but I already know it doesn't stack up to the other two) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 How to Train Your Dragon 2 > How to Train Your Dragon > Pan (haven't heard much but I already know it doesn't stack up to the other two)This.I've listened to more of it, and while there are some good parts, it's inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 There is nothing incoherent or unfocused about How to Train Your Dragon 2 compared to its predecessor. If anything the first score suffered from too hectic and bustling layers which often translated into pure loud noise which the sequel fixed with a more streamlined approach to the action music. Powell also did wisely focus on the new themes for the new story while still giving the old themes their due and giving the music a feeling of continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Another gem from FSMThe score, it is as reported, not cohesive, not thematic and not that interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,515 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 There is nothing incoherent or unfocused about How to Train Your Dragon 2 compared to its predecessor. If anything the first score suffered from too hectic and bustling layers which often translated into pure loud noise which the sequel fixed with a more streamlined approach to the action music. Powell also did wisely focus on the new themes for the new story while still giving the old themes their due and giving the music a feeling of continuity.Absolutely nothing incoherent or unfocused, but just not as cohesive, which is the main reason why I put HTTYD into "legendary" status. When I listen to the HTTYD album I can see the whole story play out in my head because it just flows so perfectly. This is not the case with the HTTYD2. But as I said I think a lot of this is to do with the movie itself, which gave Powell plenty of breathing space to write music, more so than HTTYD2. It's Powell's most "operatic" score IMO.I think both had hectic and bustling layers...if anything HTTYD2 was more adventurous, but this broke the flow of the music for me in many places (e.g. Drago Battle). I sort of agree with crocodile when he says that HTTYD was the pinnacle of Powell's "RC" sound and HTTYD2 was more symphonic. In the end I think the musical material is hard to compare. But I know that if I had a choice to take either HTTYD or HTTYD2, I would definitely take HTTYD, which to me is a much more pleasant listening experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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