Faleel 5,360 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 BOTFA EE vs. TE comparison (Some potentially NSFW images on the sidebars):http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=781094 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Those guys are always very thorough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 The ads in the side banners can be annoying, but I suppose they have to pay the bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Dammit, I just realized today that the EE of BotFA killed my enjoyment of the film. With the theatrical cut, you could say, well, that film is anything but perfect, but I can see the potential in it, and with some additions, it could be quite good.But now, it's so crystal clear what the emphasis was on in this film in the mind of the film maker. And it's horrid.The battle got worse, the music got worse, the bits omitted from the book were not put back in ... I've got little desire to watch that film again. Maybe once with audio commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 BTW, what scene(s) do you guys think brought this film to an R rating instead of the PG13 all 11 prior cuts of Jackson Middle Earth films got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 The exploding Troll heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 You have to be somewhat grown up to process the bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 The excessive amount of body violence, even though they were trolls and orcs, was pretty horrific. Galadriel basically blowing up the Dungeon Master was brutal too. This sums it up pretty well. Definitely not child material: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 It really is Jackson taking it to excessive levels, isn't it? The original trilogy didn't need to be so indulgent because he seemed to understand the concept of restraint back then.The entire prequel trilogy just reeks of someone forced into a job they never wanted, and being utterly self indulgent as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Hey PJ keeps saying how he would not have wanted to spend the last few years in any other way than shooting these films! He is so passionate and it shows! It shows in excess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 It's just bizarre how the series went so far off the rails after the first film. Sure, it was excessively long and an almost page-for-page adaptation of the book, but at least the invented elements were kept to a minimum.He just didn't give a shit by the third film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Can you blame the guy for wanting to quit when he was getting only 1-3 hours of sleep every night during the post production of the last film. I would be making silly decisions when half dazed all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Oh, don't get me wrong, I feel some sympathy for Jackson but, by the same token, his track record ever since LOTR isn't exactly stellar. Lovely Bones was absolutely awful and King Kong needed another 6 months in the editor's suite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Yeah, I meant relative to the subsequent films.At least Azog was a character Tolkien actually invented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 If only they had chosen Bolg as the antagonist for the films. It would have made perfect sense, there would have been a great motivation for it (vengeance) and it would have obviated bigger deviations from Tolkien's own mythos. I can understand a heck better how Bolg could be subservient to the Necromancer and also like Azog in finished film also served him to get his revenge on Thorin. Plus there might not have been a need for a Dol Guldur army at all if they had gone with Bolg and Gundabad in the first place.Oh and Tauriel would have been fine if they had not tried to shoehorn in the uncomfortable romance. Just diminish her role in DoS and give her something to do as Thranduil's aide in BotFA and she would have been palatable. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 If only they had chosen Bolg as the antagonist for the films. It would have made perfect sense, there would have been a great motivation for it (vengeance) and it would have obviated bigger deviations from Tolkien's own mythos. I can understand a heck better how Bolg could be subservient to the Necromancer and also like Azog in finished film also served him to get his revenge on Thorin. Plus there might not have been a need for a Dol Guldur army at all if they had gone with Bolg and Gundabad in the first place.But Legolas needed his own nemesis when he became a principal character!!!11!!111!Yet another stupid narrative compromise only made because of further departure from the source material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Oh and Tauriel would have been fine if they had not tried to shoehorn in the uncomfortable romance. Just diminish her role in DoS and give her something to do as Thranduil's aide in BotFA and she would have been palatable.It's a role Legolas could have easily filled.Yes of course. But if you absolutely wanted to get a female character in there then Tauriel in a different form would have filled the need without all the smooching and lovey dovey love triangle.But Legolas needed his own nemesis when he became a principal character!!!11!!111!Alas he did, when his role completely blown out of proportion by PJ and the script writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Do we know how much Bloom was paid for these films? I know there were initial reports of him being paid $1m for a two-minute cameo (sigh - if only), but obviously that wasn't the case. It's none of anyone's business of course, but it might give us an idea of the role expected of him.I don't think anyone can accuse Jackson of not giving a shit at any stage - about the source material possibly, but not the project itself. It's just that he often has these insane (silly?) ideas which none of us can fathom sadly.With the violence, because it's cartoony enough and inflicted on 'monsters' do we really need think of the children? I imagine a good number would probably love it (they're probably thinking the wargs and ogres are cunts who deserve it anyway). I know I would have done.Of course, I too don't believe much of what Jackson and co have said about the production of these films in public, especially when they try and justify certain plot elements and the theatrical running time of the third film. Even the commentaries don't strike me as being from the heart I'm sorry to say. But if he wants to work with Warner or indeed another major studio again I imagine his hands are tied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Actually, the Tauriel/Kili stuff is symptomatic for the mindset on these films. When it became clear that the films would include this story, Boyens said that Tolkien fans would recognize which female story they wanted to tell. And people were thinking, hm, which obscure and geekish story are they telling? Nice that they would include something from Tolkien's other ... hold on, it's a retelling of Galadriel/Gimli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Actually, the Tauriel/Kili stuff is symptomatic for the mindset on these films. When it became clear that the films would include this story, Boyens said that Tolkien fans would recognize which female story they wanted to tell. And people were thinking, hm, which obscure and geekish story are they telling? Nice that they would include something from Tolkien's other ... hold on, it's a retelling of Galadriel/Gimli.And we can always ask why tell the same story again and thus diminish the uniqueness of Galadriel and Gimli moment in LotR? I thought it was funny that Philippa Boyens was actually quite taken both on the commentary and in the documentaries with the romantic love story they invented for the Hobbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 With the violence, because it's cartoony enough and inflicted on 'monsters' do we really need think of the children? I imagine a good number would probably love it (they're probably thinking the wargs and ogres are cunts who deserve it anyway). I know I would have done.My respect for you just keeps on decreasing with each day that passes!The depiction of violence is a major problem in these films, as it plays a big part in their schizophrenic nature. You have all those dumb ideas thrown into the films which are justified by the good ol' "It's just for kids anyway!" bullshit motto, and then you have more violence than in any of LOTR films (or at least, it's depicted in a more gruesome way)... What the fuck?The feeling is mutual buddy!In my view, the more disturbing (upsetting) parts of the films (for kids) are those from the book - the beheading of Thror (out of context, but you know what I mean - and the desecration of his body is far darker in the source material), the deaths of the Dwarves (the depiction differs, but death is death). Because these are good guys, you'd think they would find it more shocking. Something like the launching of the heads of Gondorian soldiers into Minas Tirith has more power to disturb than a warg being crushed.I agree with you on the depiction of violence being inconsistent in terms of tone. Like how one minute the battle will be deadly serious and the next we might get a throwaway comedic scene (the EE exacerbates this problem). The gore is OTT for sure, I'm not arguing with that. But it's no coincidence that the more explicit violence is inflicted on non-human, evil characters. If say they'd added Fili being beheaded, I would certainly take the side of those upset about the R-rating.This issue with kids (let's cut to the chase and say young boys) and R-rated films (due mainly to violence) is an interesting one in general. Looking back now, it's crazy to think of a time when they made animated series', action figures and computer games (aimed at kids) based on franchises like Rambo, Robocop and even Toxic Avenger. I'm getting way off track here, but I guess one could make the point that Jackson, at times, seems to approach battle content like the big kid he is at heart. The signs are there with some set-pieces in TTT and ROTK, but the indulgence of King Kong (a childhood favourite, lest we forget) seems to have left him in that state pretty much permanently. It's about what struck him (and I emphasize him) as cool or amusing, rather than what was actually called for.Still, I must admit I enjoyed the chariot race for what it was. Particularly the troll holding up the bridge, which reminded me a little of that part in Moria where they were throwing down slabs for the Orcs. Fuck you all.Actually, the Tauriel/Kili stuff is symptomatic for the mindset on these films. When it became clear that the films would include this story, Boyens said that Tolkien fans would recognize which female story they wanted to tell. And people were thinking, hm, which obscure and geekish story are they telling? Nice that they would include something from Tolkien's other ... hold on, it's a retelling of Galadriel/Gimli.I still think Boyens was instructed by the studios to try and justify this bullshit storyline by making reference to a strand from the books, because deep down she must know what kind of relationship exists between Gimli and Galadriel in Tolkien's works, and how different it is to the horrific bile we're subjected to with Kili and Tauriel. I know she has her detractors (I've been one of them) but you try and give people the benefit of the doubt. Anyone with a brain would know it's insulting to even compare the two.It's a major studio film, so it needs a love story (not my line of thinking you understand). Lord of the Rings had a love story, and we all know these films had to, on paper, tick as many boxes as that as possible. We know from the casting calls the original plan was for some kind of Elf romance between two fictional characters (I know some people think that 'Elf Lord of Rivendell' was Legolas, but I'm not convinced). I could have lived with that, especially if Saiorse Ronan had been cast (a far better actress than Lily, and infinitely more Elf-like). But no, it has to be interracial and star-crossed, because that's how it was in LOTR, and that's what the teens lap up with shit like Twilight, where, from what I gather, werewolves and vampires and Christ knows what else all fuck one another. Coincidence? I think not. If you must, what about Tauriel and Bard? That makes some kind of sense, and wouldn't be overly offensive. Distracting sure, but not plot-destroying. But then you would have had people draw parallels with Aragorn and Arwen, so that couldn't wash. And so we come to a foul, hideous Dwarf and Elf union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I'd be stunned if anyone disagreed with both of those sentiments.I was watching Ant-man the other day, and - aside from her stupid hair - Lily's facial expressions really annoyed me. I guess my Hobbit hate carried over, but then my Kate hate from Lost probably carried into that, so she never stood a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Didn't Jackson outright admitted the studio requested a female character?Jesus, did you listen to the audio commentary?Jackson actually wanted to put in a young Gothmog, and make Azog or Bolg his uncle. They even had designs made.Holy jumping shitballs ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 He mentioned it being a cold-blooded decision. Do we honestly think Jackson sat down and made an invented female character a priority? I can't see it. I suspect it was a studio insistence. And where fictional female characters thrive, bad made-up love stories follow...That young Gothmog idea is stupid. Now having Sharku as one of Azog's band, that would have made more sense, even if he's not as well-known as Gothmog. He could have be seen getting his facial scars at one point. And before anyone jumps on my back, I know not everything in LOTR has to be explained, it would just be a little nod, because obviously Sharku is an old warrior by the time of LOTR (obviously), and it's quite possible he would have fought in these wars, being closer to the action (theoretically, he could have came to Isengard from the Misty Mountains or Dol Guldur). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I still haven't seen this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Me neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I still haven't seen this.Watch only the funeral scene which can be found around interwebs. It is all you really need from the EE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Who are we to judge the needs of others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Nothing in this EE is really needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I had the misfortune of watching this for reasons of family peace and i endured but my dear children, let me say it was a long haul. And unlike the first three parts which already had some sfx bloat i got the feeling Jackson now constantly cuts away from interesting stuff (the actors) to numbing action sequences the weight of balloons. The scenes that threatened to get interesting or had some dramatic potential either were solved with awful dialogue from the book of clunkiness or depressingly literal-minded imagery (the king dwarf's gold nightmare). The sad thing is: it could have had some potential if Jackson would have taken the first LOTR movie to heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 The first three? Did Jackson make a fourth and we didn't notice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 More and more the hate flows throughI am outta here!...Still Starwars comes along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Except that even mild criticism grows into full-blown hate for those who seriously think these movies 'matter'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I think I'm just going to hate Star Wars, so I can be on the cool side for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 You are really behind. It's desperately unhip to hate SW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Well in that case I'll love it, unreservedly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I'm not judging his needs, I know them. After all, he's my brother.Indeed. You know me too well.Well in that case I'll love it, unreservedly!Yup! Even the slightest criticism should be something of great offence to you!Except that even mild criticism grows into full-blown hate for those who seriously think these movies 'matter'.In-fucking-deed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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