Popular Post alainmayrand 22 Posted June 9, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2015 Hi guys,I haven't been on this forum for a long time! Looks like it is a healthy and positive as ever. I am trying something out here and thought I would share. I'm getting pretty excited about the upcoming Star Wars score! So I though of doing a series of very short and very informal videos looking at different elements from everyone's favourite film score! They'll be about 2-3 minutes long (that's the plan), looking at one small usable element at a time. Will come out twice a week and, yeah, that's it. Here's the first one! Like I said, simple stuff but perhaps it will be useful, certainly will be fun and I hope to see you there!Alain Smeltington, Incanus, Not Mr. Big and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Great idea for a video series and good clear presentation. Can't wait for future installments of this. Thanks for sharing, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Cool idea! I'll be watching. Could you also provide a track title and timestamp for each section you're looking at, as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 That's pretty cool. But because I'm a layman in musical theory, could you include some soundbites next time? Maybe a mock-up even, because you explain the different layers quite well, but I never get to hear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I agree with Breathmask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Thanks guys!I won't put any audio in the actual video because it will likely get flagged for copyright and then the whole audio track will get silent, including the voice, but I can put a link to a video with timestamp in the description perhaps?Next one coming out tomorrow morning, just finished it. Thanks again!Alain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post alainmayrand 22 Posted June 11, 2015 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 11, 2015 Here's video #2! Cerebral Cortex, Bespin and Not Mr. Big 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Improvisation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Perfect! I've been looking for something just like this for a while, very insightful and goes into the technical detail. Keep up the good work!Couple of questions:- Are the 'horns' french horns?- Why aren't these horns in f (or trumpets in b flat) taught to play the note c when a c is written on the page? It doesn't make sense to me that they play a different note to what is written.Well, that depends. Is the Hal Leonard edition of the score written in concert pitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Great bite-sized videos that explain things in an easy-to-follow way. Interesting about the orchestration of the theme in your first video, which is of course of the end credits. As you say, it has some oomph with the trumpets (which are by no means in their highest register) and the mid-range horns. That's surely a big reason this sounds like a more fun version of the theme than the main title, where the trumpets are up nearly an octave higher and are allowed to blast out the theme by themselves up into the stratosphere, at the top of their range.The orchestration of Yoda's theme is particularly nicely spaced musically, the violins and violas staying clear of anything below middle C so the cello can enter with the melody unobstructed, a bit like the opening of Princess Leia's theme, with those wavering strings that stay clear of the horn's mid-range entrance with the tune.Nice videos. Keep 'em coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Perfect! I've been looking for something just like this for a while, very insightful and goes into the technical detail. Keep up the good work!Couple of questions:- Are the 'horns' french horns?- Why aren't these horns in f (or trumpets in b flat) taught to play the note c when a c is written on the page? It doesn't make sense to me that they play a different note to what is written.Yes, horns are French Horns. A valid question because, after all, you speak to a trombone player he calls his trombone a "horn" and a trumpet player does the same. The score is a transposed score, so the horn is in F and the trumpet in Bb.As for the reason why they do so, which I think is your question, it is because these instruments have various transpositions that they have to play.There are trumpets in C, Bb, Eb, F, A etc... so the performer always reads the same notation and "thinks" the same fingering, but will end up with different pitches. So one player can now play a variety of different trumpets without having to learn different fingerings and/or transpositions for each.-AGreat bite-sized videos that explain things in an easy-to-follow way. Interesting about the orchestration of the theme in your first video, which is of course of the end credits. As you say, it has some oomph with the trumpets (which are by no means in their highest register) and the mid-range horns. That's surely a big reason this sounds like a more fun version of the theme than the main title, where the trumpets are up nearly an octave higher and are allowed to blast out the theme by themselves up into the stratosphere, at the top of their range.The orchestration of Yoda's theme is particularly nicely spaced musically, the violins and violas staying clear of anything below middle C so the cello can enter with the melody unobstructed, a bit like the opening of Princess Leia's theme, with those wavering strings that stay clear of the horn's mid-range entrance with the tune.Nice videos. Keep 'em coming!Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Oh I see, which makes me wonder why there are all those differently tuned varieties of trumpet. Do they have distinctly different ranges, and does Williams choose the tunings of the horns/trumpet for a particular reason?Thanks for the response!The reason for all those transpositions has to do with the history of the trumpet and French Horn. Before the inclusion of valves, natural horns could only play in one key and required to either have extra pieces of tubing added or complete other instruments in order to play in various keys. John Williams here is using the standard orchestral brass. Trumpet in C is more common than Bb however, but otherwise, it's not a specific choice for this music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 As someone who has never received formal training in orchestration, I was more interested in things like the violin bowing markings and technique. If you can continue to include those nuggets that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,482 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Alain, un Québécois exilé à Vancouver, c'est pas banal ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Love the videos Alain! Keep them coming!The "Score Club" program/blog you started also looks really great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlytoot 97 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 This is all very interesting! I'm a music student and have always been looking/hoping for something like these videos! Keep up the great work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 At the beginning of "Yoda's Theme," what's the reason for spacing the violin parts so they interlock, as opposed to just having Violin I play the higher pitches and Violin II playing the lower ones? Is it just because it's easier to read this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Alain, un Québécois exilé à Vancouver, c'est pas banal ;-)Absolument! Je suis allé voir ton site FB sur John Williams.Love the videos Alain! Keep them coming!The "Score Club" program/blog you started also looks really great!Thanks KK. Will do!ScoreClub has taken off really well, so thanks for taking a look. Lots more to come!At the beginning of "Yoda's Theme," what's the reason for spacing the violin parts so they interlock, as opposed to just having Violin I play the higher pitches and Violin II playing the lower ones? Is it just because it's easier to read this way?Good questions! I think I'll address that and transposition in the next video!But I can say that interlocking is more important when writing for winds. Interlocking violin I and II has in theory no big effect on timbre since they are all the same instrument.However, having stood in front of an orchestra many times, I can tell you that violin II is softer than violin I. They have fewer players, yes, but usually by only 2, so that's not the reason. I think it could have something to do with the angle of the F holes, or even a matter of attitude. Take that for what it's worth, I certainly consider that reality when orchestrating for live vs. studio. Studio you have the tree angled differently than the conductor's ears, and you have spot mics.But the actual answer is: it doesn't matter. Alain Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Third video is up..with improved sound! Thanks!Alain Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Really loving these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Really loving these. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Another great video! Surprised how accessible they are, and don't feel like dull theory lessons.Oh wow. Thanks! That is indeed what I aim for when I teach! Direct, to the point, well-paced, clear and useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissiddall 162 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Hi AlainGreat idea, and enjoying your series a lot so far!When you mentioned "mrbellamy"'s question about string voicing in Yoda's Theme my initial thought, being a violinist and composer myself, was that the "inter-locking" would have been for "mechanical" reasons. Violins (violas, celli and double basses) are tuned in fifths, and whilst close intervals are possible, the mechanics of getting your hand into the correct position to "double stop", or play both notes simultaneously on two adjacent strings tuned a fifth apart can be tricky.When I looked at your video again though, I noticed that in the HL score it is marked "divisi", meaning that half of the players take the upper note and the other half take the lower (usually split per desk). This would make sense in terms of trying to achieve the throbbing legato effect that you want to achieve in the opening. Getting that same tone whilst double stopping would be challenging. It did get me wondering though, and when I looked at the original score, it is NOT marked divisi, so the mechanics of double stopping may have been a consideration after all.Sorry, I know that doesn't really shed any more light on that passage than your answer, but it struck me as a conscious decision rather than "he just felt like being clever"!!! I think the "balance" argument is blown too; the HL parts set provides eight 1st and 2nd violin parts equally, then six violas, cellos (assume 1 part per desk pair), and six double basses (assume 1 part each). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Hi,thanks for that.A few thoughts:In film scores the de facto is divisi. So if not written it could still be implied to be divisi. Doing a double stop louré would be tough as you state, and so is intonation on a double stopped 5th. The number of parts sold is not necessarily what would be used in concert, but we can generally assume a couple more players for violin 1 than violin 2. Still, the strings are organized in a way to create balance, but my experience with live orchestras (I was four years as composer-in-residence with an orchestra) is that violin 1 stands out more than violin 2.I don't think Williams was trying to be clever either. He is way beyond that stage. At some point, especially with string voicings with divisi, it could go a number of ways and you make a decision. This particular format is a good formula to go to.Thanks!Alain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Hi,fourth one a bit overdue. Been busy writing, which is always a good thing! I took time to record a bunch of Star Wars Score Studies this morning, so they'll be coming steady for a bit. Thanks!Alain Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Star Wars score study #6. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Star Wars Score Study Video #7 is up -Alain Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruckhorn 105 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Time and again: not items covered in my orchestration class. Bravo!And, I chuckled when you said, "The other H-guy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Great to see these still coming!Thanks for the audio reference. I've been trying to listen out for Williams' woodwind writing. It is supposedly the most difficult section to write for. But when the full orchestra plays I can never hear the woodwind. I'm pleased to see the flute and clarinet parts for the passage within the Imperial March, but I still can't heard them - even knowing exactly what they're playing. Is this just me?In this case the woodwinds are really meant as decoration that will not be a foreground element. In this passage they are quite hard to hear for sure. It's not just you. As for hearing winds in a tutti, keep listening, you'll hear them. AlainTime and again: not items covered in my orchestration class. Bravo!And, I chuckled when you said, "The other H-guy."Thank you! I was aiming for exactly that. So thank you!-Alain Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Video #8 is up! Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Really happy you're continuing to crank these out as they are consistently very entertaining and well-explained so thank you for this continued service you have been providing to us free of charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Really happy you're continuing to crank these out as they are consistently very entertaining and well-explained so thank you for this continued service you have been providing to us free of charge. Thanks for the comment. You are very welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Posted number 9. Enjoy! Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Hi.Now up to 11 in the Star Wars score studies. Here is #11: There is also a playlist for the Star Wars videos.And, at people's request, I have started to post some videos about my own scores, the first being from "The Legend of SilkBoy" Thanks!Alain Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Thank you so much for making these! I love analyzing scores...Another great example of the piccolo overtone can be found in the final chords of the SW main theme. There, the highest note is a G7 (highest G on the piano) played by the piccolo, but the next note below is a G one octave below played by the flute/violins. This is unusual because often it is said that tutti chords should get denser near the top (as "suggested" by the law of harmonics), but in this case we have a full octave spacing between the top two notes. In this particular case, Williams packs lots of instruments into the mid (to high) register, but to create a fuller sound, he adds a piccolo way high up to support the harmonics generated by those mid-range instruments (e.g. trumpets sound more striking this way). A slightly unconventional voicing then, but it works.As for three-octave string doubling, e.g. Chaikovsky almost always used this for lush, romantic melodies.And I really liked your soundtrack excerpt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 The idea of three-octave doubling applies to the woodwinds as well, of course. Renders them recognizable along with the brass/strings texture.Rimsky-Korsakov's guidelines:Winds in three octavesFlutes - oboes 8va basso - clarinets 15ma bassoWinds in four octavesFlutes - oboes 8va basso - clarinets 15ma basso - bassoons 22ma bassoMixed timbres may also be employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alainmayrand 22 Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Thanks for the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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