The Force Awakens The Force Awakens SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

[Andy 4,138]

Han should've cut the long bridge with a Thuggee machete. That woulda fixed Kylo Ren but good.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It actually reminded me of the Bridge Of Khazad Dum!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

My theory is that Han comes back as a vision through the lightsaber, which is now a mystical magical Harry Potter-esque object that calls to you and gives you crazy visions. Since Han wielded it in ESB, his spirit will linger on through it in the sequels.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

I guess Leia will be the one to confront Ren in Episode 8 or 9, then. And hopefully not die.

Maybe she'll get to Use The Force after all

With Han out of the picture and Rey's parentage a major question mark, they definitely seem to be heading this new trilogy in the direction of mothers and daughters, as opposed to the father/son story of the originals.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That would suggest Han and Leia know Rey. There's no evidence of that in the film

[mrbellamy 6,287]

They may have some sort of explanation for it down the line. I don't know, she could just as easily be random, but in that case she may find a surrogate family with our heroes.

Yeah I'm totally down with that, it's just the execution was way off. Like the alien head pops up for less than 2 seconds and then we're already cutting away. I have a feeling the segment was initially longer but they cut it down for some reason

I really enjoyed the cutting rhythm of this film. Especially in terms of the film's sense of humor, they really got the timing down perfectly pretty much across-the-board. And I think in that scene, JJ was just looking for something to hide in the corner of the film, so you blink and miss it. Just adding to the film's periphery.

Also about Han, I think they may get him into a flashback somewhere down the line since they've now introduced that device, but I don't see him finding a way back into the real story. His death will certainly hang over the next films, though.

[Andy 4,138]

Could Phasma be Rey's mother? Not familiar with Gwendolyne Christie's age, so don't know if it would be logical.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

30's

Seriously though?

[Andy 4,138]

Again, I don't watch Game of Thrones, nor do I know the actress. And I really stayed away from spoilers, so you'll have to excuse my musing.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I think the problem with how Rey's journey is written is actually the early part (which is what this movie is about). It's surely too early to see the Return with the Elixir.

Basically, we can say that the Call to Adventure is the scene when she finds Luke's lightsaber - even though in purely plot-related terms (i.e. microstructure) the Call is when she finds BB-8 and Finn and choose to fly away with them. These two elements don't gel well because we become invested in Rey's character first as a kind of adventurer per se. And then she immediately refuses the call when Maz talks about her being one with the Force, but then she ends up being abducted by Kylo in a sort of Deus Ex Machina resolution and she finds the Force awakening in herself (without anyone really explaining to her what the Force is!) after being captive. Why? Because she has no Mentor around. Han Solo covers this mentoring role only very partially (and he's mentor to both Rey and Finn). So, Rey ends up accepting the call in a very stodgy way. Luke's acceptance of the call comes in a much simpler, but way more effective way (the Empire kills his aunt and uncle so he doesn't have anything else to lose) and that sets him on the path of the adventure.

Rey took a long time to make up her mind whether she wanted to accept the call because she's an indecisive woman who doesn't know what she wants!

Luke is a bloke who thinks logically, so "learning the ways of the force to become a Jedi like my father" was an easy decision for him.

[King Mark 3,631]

I hated the ending. Seriously only one shot of Luke and that's it? WTF

[Jay 37,369]

I don't think every character has to be related to each other

[crumbs 14,317]

The weird helicopter shot as the ending didn't sit right with me. 5 of the 6 films end with a static shot of the main characters together. It was pretty disorienting having that much extreme movement from a telephoto lens dissolving into the credits, coupled with the really awkward musical transition (and repeating the already-done 'Binary Sunset' finale from ROTS... why wasn't this Luke's theme instead of the Force theme?)

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The last scene felt fan filmish.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[King Mark 3,631]

So is Rey supposed to be Luke's daughter?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Everything points at that... So it must be a red herring!

[Andy 4,138]

Who's hand is reaching out to Artoo in the booklet to the CD? Deleted scene? I don't recall it from the film.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Wasn't the Artoo shot in the vision? It's implied that it's Luke.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Maybe the Force does not pick at random, and the particular person of Rey is special. If she is Han and Leia's daughter (and then Kylo Ren's sister), as I suspect, it would make sense... after all, she would be the grand-daughter of Anakin Skywalker, not just any random person in the galaxy.

Why does every Force-sensitive person has to be a Skywalker? What the fuck, people? Was Obi-Wan a Skywalker? What about Yoda? Qui-Gon? Palpatine? Why does Rey being Force-sensitive means she HAS to be a Skywalker?

A-fucking-men!

I really hope Rey is not a Skywalker, or Han's daughter.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

One of the most pointless callbacks to the OT was when they recreated that hallway from Bespin in the vision.

[King Mark 3,631]

So Luke put R2 into dormant form until he was ready to be found? Then R2 had the last piece of the map?

is that correct?

[mrbellamy 6,287]

The weird helicopter shot as the ending didn't sit right with me. 5 of the 6 films end with a static shot of the main characters together. It was pretty disorienting having that much extreme movement from a telephoto lens dissolving into the credits

Yeah, I definitely would have preferred a static shot like the others.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

JJ can't keep that fucking camera still.

[Damien F 1,742]

I loved the wide shot of Rey sitting outside the downed AT-AT, and also the TIE fighters approaching from the sunset. Two gorgeous shots.

[KK 3,307]

There were a good couple of gorgeous shots in the film actually.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Why did she put the X-Wing helmet on? And what was that thing when BB-8 rolls away at the beginning? It seemed like a gaffe or some kind of George Lucasy prequel/Special Edition thing.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

She was just bored and goofing around. You know, the hero dreaming of bigger and better things.

She even had an x-wing pilot doll.

[Damien F 1,742]

Wouldn't it have been cool if Williams gave us a subtle hint of part of Imperial Walkers during that shot of Rey outside the AT-AT.

[nightscape94 965]

What I found really disappointing is how poorly adapted is the classic paradigm of Joseph Campbell (the Hero's Journey) when it comes to Rey. Very sloppy screenwriting.

So if they don't follow Joseph Campbell's classic archetypes then it's poor writing?

It seems they chose to compress too much or even jump completely several key points of the Hero's Journey.

If you compare Luke's hero journey in A New Hope with Rey's in The Force Awakens (it's basically the same story) you can find there are things missing (or poorly managed) that doesn't give Rey the full character development arc she needs to be truly satisfying.

I hope to find time to work out a proper chart comparing Luke's with Rey's.

1. You presume too much as the full story has not been told.

2. There's more than one way to tell a hero's story. Just because they don't follow a distinct and set pattern doesn't mean they've failed.

3. Luke and Rey are two different people

[mrbellamy 6,287]

There were a good couple of gorgeous shots in the film actually.

I found Abrams' direction to be remarkably controlled throughout, more so than I've ever felt in his other films. Which just made the indulgent helicopter shot at the end stick out all the more.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

There were a good couple of gorgeous shots in the film actually.

I found Abrams' direction to be remarkably controlled throughout, more so than I've ever felt in his other films. Which just made the indulgent helicopter shot at the end stick out all the more.

Yes, that shot did not really belong in the film. More of a LOTR shot even.

[nightscape94 965]

Why did she put the X-Wing helmet on?

I thought that was rather cute. She's still a young kid, and it mirrors the shot later on where she's sitting under the tent and sees a ship sailing through the sky toward space and you can tell she's a dreamer by the expression on her face. Bit of the Luke-thing.

As far as the dream sequence, was that Kylo Ren's voice when the child version of Rey was holding hands with that guy?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Yes, that shot did not really belong in the film. More of a LOTR shot even.

You always have to bring LOTR into the conversation don't you?!

[Matt C 454]

Any one else like Daniel Craig's Stormtrooper cameo?

[King Mark 3,631]

I noticed in the credits Michael Giacchino plays a stormtrooper in the film

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I can't wait to see the RedLetterMedia review.

[crumbs 14,317]

I'm surprised there's no Half in the Bag yet. Must be doing something special.

[KK 3,307]

Yes, that shot did not really belong in the film. More of a LOTR shot even.

You always have to bring LOTR into the conversation don't you?!

No!! That's SUH's job!

[Faleel 5,354]

Fun fact: some of the actors from the Clone Wars voiced characters in TFA:

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens

So Star Wars returns to cinemas and it’s more energetic than ever. J.J. Abrams makes some clear prequel-defying choices (practical creatures, location shooting, and was that actually Coruscant that got blown to smithereens?). If you’re going into The Force Awakens without ever having seen a Star Wars film (unlikely on this forum, but hey), you can skip the prequels. There’s no information from those movies that’s referenced here.

With Darth Vader dead and gone, Episode VII becomes the continuation of Luke, Han and Leia’s story as viewed through the eyes of new characters. No longer is the Star Wars saga the story of the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker (which was prequel trilogy hogwash to begin with). It’s still unmistakenly the story of the Skywalker clan, though. Will Rey turn out to be the daughter of Luke? I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

I liked the journey our two heroes (Finn and Rey) were on. I particularly liked how pure-hearted Finn kept falling just short of saving Rey, but they’d make a great team. I also really enjoyed that the Chosen One for this new trilogy is a woman for a change. Between this and Mission: Impossible - Rogue Nation, action heroines have taken a good step forward this year. Poe Dameron seems like a character with potential, but he disappears from the film for too long to make a lasting impression. I actually had a hard time caring for any of the X-Wing pilots involved in the final battle, because I felt like I didn't know any of them, including Poe.

I was surprised by how large a role Han Solo actually had to play in the story. It's a meaty part and I enjoyed Harrison Ford's performance very much. He still had the old rogue tucked away somewhere, now burdened with another thirty years of life experience. He would have made a great mentor for Finn, but alas. The movie also made great use of its non-speaking characters. Both BB-8 and Chewbacca garnered a lot of laughs. The biggest reaction from the audience came from BB-8's improvised "thumbs up."

It was wonderful hearing the Star Wars Main Title in the cinema again. I also thoroughly enjoyed seeing a film with a John Williams score in the cinema. He has been sorely missed and I’m already looking forward to his score for The BFG. There was great nostalgia in hearing some of the old themes, but they weren’t always appropriate. The Burning Homestead quote felt really inappropriate. Was that tracked? I love Rey’s Theme, though. It’s a gorgeous new piece. Overall, the score seems to lack the cohesiveness of other Star Wars scores, but I still thoroughly enjoyed hearing a master like Williams displaying his craft. Nobody writes like him anymore.

I liked the ending (lots of things hanging up in the air to be continued in the next installment and then... Luke!), even though I knew it was coming (I saw no OST track titles before hand except The Jedi Steps and Finale so I knew we were going to end up at the Jedi temple and of course everyone knew Mark Hamill was in this).

The movie was crammed to the brim with stuff though. There’s hardly a moment’s pause in this. Scenes were short story points are resolved repeatedly end with characters being interrupted or spotting or hearing something that quickly takes them to the next story point. At times, the film feels like it was brutally trimmed down from something at least thirty minutes longer to reach its final two hour fifteen minute running time.

The Force Awakens sets up a lot of things for Episodes VIII and IX, but the movie never comes to a grinding halt because of the set-up (unlike, say, the MCU movies, where the movie you’re watching just seems to stop to make way for another teeny bit of Infinity Wars setup that’s still two and a half years away at this point). This was handled well, although it does mean the movie has a hard time standing on its own.

I’m very curious to see what Episode VIII will bring. This is the movie that will make or break this new trilogy. Will everything set up go in an interesting direction and will we be waiting anxiously to see how everything is resolved when Episode IX hits theatres in 2019? Here’s hoping. I’ll definitely be there to see how things turn out for the next installment in two years’ time.

[Faleel 5,354]

Poe Dameron seems like a character with potential, but he disappears from the film for too long to make a lasting impression. I actually had a hard time caring for any of the X-Wing pilots involved in the final battle, because I felt like I didn't know any of them, including Poe.

At least we got more time with him than we did with Wedge in ANH.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I wouldn't be surprised if Dameron was actually Wedge in an earlier draft.

[nightscape94 965]

TFA had the unfortunate duty of needing to do several things:

Correct franchise course trajectory tainted by the prequels/reestablish faith in the property

Tell its own compelling story while laying groundwork for the next three films

Introduce and balance new characters while using the older group as a springboard

Now that TFA is a success, Rian Johnson can drop the unneeded baggage and tell a very specific story the rest of the way out. It helps in a way that he's doing both the next two films.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

Now that TFA is a success, Rian Johnson can drop the unneeded baggage and tell a very specific story the rest of the way out. It helps in a way that he's doing both the next two films.

Colin Trevorrow's doing IX.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Okay, more thoughts.

Opening scene was wonderful. Loved Poe and the old man, the dialogue about Luke and the princess, the arrival of the First Order and confrontation with Kylo. I even liked Kylo's voice, which sounded less like the Talkboy from Home Alone 2 in the film. Seriously, the guy they got for Poe was perfect. He started talking and I was like, that's Star Wars. He even looked vintage. So much for those characters. When the focus switched to Finn and Rey, I couldn't really care for them. They never did it for me. I could have cared less if Finn had died at the end, and that's pretty bad. When Rey suddenly has Force powers, her character is drastically altered without explanation and that kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

The villains, specifically Snoke, Cliff Huxtable and Kylo without his mask on didn't feel like Star Wars to me. They were like characters out of a Harry Potter movie in the wrong universe.

The new alien designs didn't feel like Star Wars.

[nightscape94 965]

Now that TFA is a success, Rian Johnson can drop the unneeded baggage and tell a very specific story the rest of the way out. It helps in a way that he's doing both the next two films.

Colin Trevorrow's doing IX.

From a writing standpoint.

[Damien F 1,742]

Okay, more thoughts.

Opening scene was wonderful. Loved Poe and the old man, the dialogue about Luke and the princess, the arrival of the First Order and confrontation with Kylo. I even liked Kylo's voice, which sounded less like the Talkboy from Home Alone 2 in the film. Seriously, the guy they got for Poe was perfect. He started talking and I was like, that's Star Wars. He even looked vintage. So much for those characters. When the focus switched to Finn and Rey, I couldn't really care for them. They never did it for me. I could have cared less if Finn had died at the end, and that's pretty bad. When Rey suddenly has Force powers, her character is drastically altered without explanation and that kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

The villains, specifically Snoke, Cliff Huxtable and Kylo without his mask on didn't feel like Star Wars to me. They were like characters out of a Harry Potter movie in the wrong universe.

The new alien designs didn't feel like Star Wars.

I think they miscast Hux. Domhnall Gleeson is a great actor but I think they needed someone older and with more gravitas to play that role. I know that would have drawn comparisons to Tarkin but a younger actor in that role just seemed off. Hell, even Domhnall's father would have done a good job.

Snoke was definitely like a Potter or lesser Lord of the Rings villain. He had very little presence compared to The Emperor. Even the brief appearance of The Emperor in TESB was more menacing than all of Snoke's scenes. I hope this is corrected for ep 8.