David Arnold's STARGATE (1994) - 2019 2CD La-la Land Records edition

[Thor 7,504]

I would agree! It featured on my "top 144" albums list that I posted a thread about here awhile back.

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

I think the second half of the OST drags quite a bit.

[Jay 37,364]

Back in stock!

 

https://lalalandrecords.com/stargate-25th-anniversary-expanded-limited-edition-2-cd-set/

[Thor 7,504]

Still Arnold's best.

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

What do you think about this expansion?

[Thor 7,504]

I don't give a fuck. I am -- as always -- talking about the OST.

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

The Always OST is indeed nice!

[Richard Penna 3,690]

23 hours ago, Thor said:

I don't give a fuck. I am -- as always -- talking about the OST.

 

The OST is overlong as it is - way more reconceptualisation needed.

 

And for once I'm not being sarcastic!

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

I've always say that the second half of the OST is too long.

[crumbs 14,316]

The film score presentation on the LLL is perfect to me!

 

Its runtime is 1:20:03, so 3 seconds too long for a single CD 

 

Not really sure what most of the remaining disc 2 tracks are, presumably album tracks? But most of them are superfluous and the film score is enough for me.

[Jay 37,364]

Everything after the main program is mostly album versions / edits (everything in the main program is the film version), and some other alternates that weren't on the OST and debut here. 

[Jay 37,364]

So, I’ve been playing this score a lot lately, and over the weekend decided to revisit the film in order to see the context for all the music

 

I ended up watching the Extended Cut, which overall I found to be a better film than the Theatrical cut.  The one downside, though, is that it’s extremely clear that Arnold never scored any of the footage they put back in (other than the opening Abduction scene), which is to be expected.... however the problem is that whoever was in charge of adding music to the new scenes did a very bad job!  Often the tone of the music put in didn’t really match the tone of the scene, but much worse is that some of the edits are super noticeable and jarring, not smooth at all.  There was one time where a cue was artificially ended so abruptly and obviously I wondered how it ever passed whatever quality control they had when making this cut… 

 

So long story short, if you want to watch the film solely to appreciate the score, watch the theatrical cut; If you want a more developed story with more character development, watch the Extended Cut - but just be prepared to be annoyed by bad music edits in some of the additional scenes  

After watching the film, I went to see if the original cue titles were in GEMA, and it turns out they are!  After finding them all and sorting through them, I learned that there are actually many times on the original soundtrack album where Arnold actually put two cues together in one track, though in all cases they are cues that are also joined in the film (though the transition between cues is not always the same).

 

Here’s a quick table showing all of Arnold’s original titles (well, at least the titles on the official cue list, we all know sometimes sheet music has different titles than the official cue list) and how they relate to album names:

 

	Cue	LLL	Varese Deluxe	OST
1	Main Title	Stargate Overture	Stargate Overture	Stargate Overture
2	not in film	Abduction	Wild Abduction
3	Giza 1928	Giza, 1928	Giza, 1928	Giza, 1928
4	Envelope	Unstable	Unstable	Unstable
5	Unstable, Part 1
6	Unstable, Part 2
7	The Coverstones	The Coverstones	The Coverstones	The Coverstones
8	Translation	Translation	Translation
9	In Case You Succeed	In Case You Succeed
10	Orion Discovery	Orion	Orion	Orion
11	The Stargate Opens	The Stargate Opens	The Stargate Opens	The Stargate Opens
12	Send In The Probe	Send In The Probe
13	You’re On The Team	You’re On The Team	You’re On The Team	You’re On The Team
14	Commencement Sequence
15	Entering The Stargate	Entering The Stargate	Entering The Stargate	Entering The Stargate
16	Galactic Rush
17	The Other Side	The Other Side	The Other Side	The Other Side
18	Bomb Assembly #1	Bomb Assembly	Bomb Assembly
19	Bomb Assembly #2
20	Mastadge	Mastadge Drag	Mastadge Drag	Mastadge Drag
21	The Mining Pit	The Mining Pit	The Mining Pit	The Mining Pit
22	King Of The Slaves	King Of The Slaves	King Of The Slaves	King Of The Slaves
23	Caravan To City	Caravan To Nagada	Caravan To Nagada	Caravan To Nagada
24	The Eye Of Ra	The Eye Of Ra	The Eye Of Ra
25	Sari's Moon	Daniel And Sha’uri	Daniel And Sha’uri	Daniel And Sha’uri
26	Spread Out	Spread Out
27	Skaara And Gun	Skaara And Gun
28	Symbol Discovery	Symbol Discovery	Symbol Discovery	Symbol Discovery
29	Sarcophagus Opens	Sarcophagus Opens	Sarcophagus Opens	Sarcophagus Opens
30	Mastadge Finds Dan	Daniel’s Mastadge	Daniel’s Mastadge	Daniel’s Mastadge
31	Leaving Nagada	Leaving Nagada	Leaving Nagada	Leaving Nagada
32	Ra's Entrance	Ra – The Sun God	Ra – The Sun God	Ra – The Sun God
33	Daniel's Death
34	Attack On Nagada	The Destruction Of Nagada	The Destruction Of Nagada	The Destruction Of Nagada
35	Nagada Destroyed
36	Myth, Faith, Belief	Myth, Faith, Belief	Myth, Faith, Belief	Myth, Faith, Belief
37	Processional	Procession	Procession	Procession
38	Slave Rebellion	Slave Rebellion	Slave Rebellion	Slave Rebellion
39	We Don’t Want To Die	We Don’t Want To Die	We Don’t Want To Die	We Don’t Want To Die
40	Execution	Execution	Execution
41	The Kiss	The Kiss	The Kiss
42	The 7th Symbol	The Seventh Symbol	The Seventh Symbol	The Seventh Symbol
43	Against The Gods, Part 1
44	Against The Gods, Part 2	Against The Gods	Against The Gods
45	Quartz Shipment	Quartz Shipment	Quartz Shipment	Quartz Shipment
46	The Battle	Battle At The Pyramid	Battle At The Pyramid	Battle At The Pyramid
47	The Battle Continues
48	The Countdown Begins
49	The Surrender	The Surrender	The Surrender	The Surrender
50	Transporter Horror	Transporter Horror	Transporter Horror
51	Kasuf Returns	Kasuf Returns	Kasuf Returns	Kasuf Returns
52	The End of Ra
53	Last Salute	Going Home	Going Home	Going Home
54	Going Home
55	End Credits	End Credits	Closing Titles (Intro)

So with all this in mind, I can quickly break down how Arnold constructed his original OST album

 

The take(s) chosen for the album are all the same as the film except for a few spots I will point out throughout

 

1 Stargate Overture (3:01)

• “Main Title”

2 Giza, 1928 (2:10)

• “Giza 1928”

3 Unstable (2:07)

• 0:00-0:26 = “Envelope”
• 0:16-end = “Unstable (Part 1)”

In the film, “Envelope” plays almost all the way to the very end of the recording before “Unstable (Part 1)” comes in just as its finishing up; Neil re-created this timing exactly in the LLL track “Unstable (Film Version)”.  For the original score album, Arnold has “Unstable (Part 1)” come in super early, overlapping most of the final chord of “Envelope”.  

 

In the film, “Unstable (Part 2)” comes in as “Unstable (Part 1)” is finishing up, again exactly re-recreated by Neil for the LLL album. The original score album omits “Unstable (Part 2)” entirely, giving us the full clean ending to “Unstable (Part 1)”

 

4 The Coverstones (0:58)

• “The Coverstones”

5 Orion (1:29)

• “Orion Discovery”, part of which is a different take than what the film uses

It is clear to me that the album represents Arnold’s original and preferred version of the cue.  The noticeable difference is the part from 1:00-1:10, when the military theme plays on brass.  Someone must have decided it was a bit too much for the film itself, so a take was recorded where the brass military theme was taceted out, and that version went into the film (and LLL main program).  

 

This is also the only cue noticeably edited down in the final cut of the film, some footage was clearly removed around the spot where he holds the newspaper up next to the Orion glyph.  Whatever it was, was not restored for the Extended Cut.

 

6 The Stargate Opens (3:58)

• “The Stargate Opens”

7 You're On The Team (1:55)

• 0:00-1:09 = “You’re On The Team”
• 1:06-end = “Commencement Sequence”

These two cues are joined in the film as well, and the transition seems to be about the same as the album.

 

8 Entering The Stargate (2:57)

• 0:00-2:29 = “Entering The Stargate”
• 2:26-end = “Galactic Rush”

These two cues do overlap in the film, but were crossfaded together much more tightly for the album version where-as in the film "Entering The Stargate" has more room to breath at the end before "Galactic Rush" begins.  Neil re-created the join as heard in the film exactly for the LLL main program.

 

9 The Other Side (1:44)

• “The Other Side”

10 Mastadge Drag (0:56)

• “Mastadge”

11 The Mining Pit (1:34)

• “The Mining Pit”

12 King Of The Slaves (1:15)

• “The King Of Slaves”

The final film mixes in a low string chord (recorded as a pick-up opening) over the beginning, starting the music a bit earlier than initially spotted, but the album presents the originally-intended opening

 

13 Caravan To Nagada (2:16)

• “Caravan To City”

14 Daniel And Sha’uri (1:53)

• “Sha’uri's Moon” (misspelled “Shari’s Moon” on the official cue list)

15 Symbol Discovery (1:15)

• “Symbol Discovery”

16 Sarcophagus Opens (0:55)

• “Sarcophagus Opens”

Arnold chose not to include the choir on the album that is heard in the film mix

 

17 Daniel's Mastadge (0:49)

• “Mastadge Finds Dan”, part of which is a different take than what the film uses

It is clear to me that the album represents Arnold’s original and preferred version of the cue.  The noticeable difference is the part from 0:26-end, a full lush ending to the piece.  Someone must have decided it was a bit too much for the film itself, so a take was recorded where a lot of the instruments are faceted out, creating a more subdued ending, and that version went into the film (and LLL main program).

 

18 Leaving Nagada (4:09)

• “Leaving Nagada”, part of which is a different take than what the film uses

It is clear to me that the album represents Arnold’s original and preferred version of the cue.  The noticeable difference is the part from 3:03-3:26, with a fuller brass performance.  Someone must have decided it was a bit too much for the film itself, so a take was recorded where some of the brass was tacted out, and that version went into the film (and LLL main program).

 

19 Ra - The Sun God (3:22)

• 0:00-2:10 = “Ra’s Entrance”, an entirely different take than the film uses
• 2:08-end = “Daniel’s Death”

I don’t know exactly what it is about the take(s) heard on the album that Arnold preferred over the take(s) in the film, but they are entirely different performances from one another, most noticeable in the slightly different ending.  The film version also has choir that is not heard on the album.  

 

“Daniel’s Death” seems to be exactly the same take(s) in the film and the album, the segue from either version of "Ra's Entrance" into it seems to be about the same between the album and film.

 

20 The Destruction Of Nagada (2:08)

• 0:00-0:35 = “Attack On Nagada”
• 0:31-end = “Nagada Destroyed”

These two cues are joined in the film as well, and the transition seems to be about the same as the album.

 

21 Myth, Faith, Belief (2:18)

• “Myth, Faith, Belief”

22 Procession (1:43)

• “Processional”

23 Slave Rebellion (1:00)

• “Slave Rebellion”

24 The Seventh Symbol (0:57)

• “The 7th Symbol”

In the film, the ending of this cue segues directly into “Against The Gods (Part 1)”, but Arnold didn’t include that cue on the score album at all, giving us the full clean ending of “The 7th Symbol”.  “Against The Gods (Part 1)” was appended to this cue for both the Varese Deluxe Edition and LLL main program.  

 

Curiously, there’s a whole unscored scene in the film before “Against The Gods (Part 2)” plays, so it’s a bit odd Arnold gave both compositions the same cue name instead of two different ones.

 

25 Quartz Shipment (1:27)

• “Quartz Shipment”

26 Battle At The Pyramid (5:02)

• 0:00-2:10 = A slightly altered arrangement of “The Battle” and “The Battle Continues” combined together and recorded just for the album
• 2:09-end = “The Countdown Begins”

So this is an interesting one.  The film has the cue “The Battle”, a pause, “The Battle Continues”, another pause, and then “The Countdown Begins”.  “The Battle” and “The Battle Continues” both technically debuted on the LLL set, because for the original score album, instead of these 2 cues, we get a unique recording that takes the material in both of them and records it as a single piece without a pause in between them.  Additionally, the album segues right into “The Countdown Begins” so the full clean ending of this album-only recording is not available anywhere.  As far as I can tell, “The Countdown Begins” is the same take(s) in the film and the album.

 

27 We Don't Want To Die (1:57)

• “We Don't Want To Die”

This is the only track out of chronological order on the score album (chronologically it would go right after “Slave Rebellion”)

 

28 The Surrender (1:44)

• “The Surrender”

29 Kasuf Returns (3:06)

• 0:00-1:32 = “Kasuf Returns”
• 1:32-end = “The End of Ra”

These two cues are joined in the film as well, and the transition seems to be about the same as the album.

 

30 Going Home (3:09)

• 0:00-1:17 = “Last Salute”
• 1:17-end = “Going Home”

These two cues are joined in the film as well, and the transition seems to be about the same as the album.
 

[NL197 368]

On 18/10/2022 at 10:39 AM, Jay said:

 

 

I ended up watching the Extended Cut, which overall I found to be a better film than the Theatrical cut.  The one downside, though, is that it’s extremely clear that Arnold never scored any of the footage they put back in (other than the opening Abduction scene), which is to be expected.... however the problem is that whoever was in charge of adding music to the new scenes did a very bad job!  Often the tone of the music put in didn’t really match the tone of the scene, but much worse is that some of the edits are super noticeable and jarring, not smooth at all.  There was one time where a cue was artificially ended so abruptly and obviously I wondered how it ever passed whatever quality control they had when making this cut… 

 

So long story short, if you want to watch the film solely to appreciate the score, watch the theatrical cut; If you want a more developed story with more character development, watch the Extended Cut - but just be prepared to be annoyed by bad music edits in some of the additional scenes  

 

Independence Day is exactly the same in terms of its bad editing of the score for the added scenes. 

Unlike Stargate, the theatrical of iD4 is the (far) better version, though some scenes in the extended are interesting enough. The problem is the audio mix for them is essentially mono and likely temp. The two worst examples of the music not flowing with the film are: 

1. The short added scene during the "Welcome Wagon" sequence where David and his father Julius are in the Oval Office. Julius is mesmerized by simply being there, which prompts David to joke that "imagine a poor immigrant like me. It's a dream!"

The scene not only breaks the tension too much, but literally breaks the sequence (and music) in two - it's dropped in there with no style or effort whatsoever. 

 

2. in the height of the end battle sequence, after the brief moment of levity with Julius gathering people to pray and Nimziki saying he's not Jewish ("nobody's perfect" Julius remarks. Unlike the added Oval Office scene this light tension breaker works well here - and it's theatrical) another scene is just dropped in without any effort put into it: This whole unnecessary subplot of the Casse children / daughter bonding with another kid (the curly-haired kid from "My So Called Life") was added to this extended cut, and culminates in a lame payoff of an earlier joke of the daughter not wanting to die a virgin. Very low in the audio mix you can hear the faintest bit of "Master Alarm" from Horner's APOLLO 13 in there, clearly temp score (as Arnold mentioned in the LLL album liner notes). 

 

I adore Independence Day. All these years later it's still one of my dearest favorite movies (and favorite score) but man...the extended cut isn't worth a watch more than once. 

 

 

As for that abrupt cut in the Stargate music, I think I know which scene you mean: 

The 'Slave Rebellion' sequence was extended with a sandstorm and the music cuts were just piss-poor. Just awful.
 

[Jay 37,364]

Heh yea, I remember watching the Extended Cut of ID4 and thinking some of the adds were pretty cool, but others... not so much.  I don't think I ever watched it with an ear for the music edits, but boy that sounds disappointing!  This part, though:

 

On 20/10/2022 at 4:01 AM, NL197 said:

Very low in the audio mix you can hear the faintest bit of "Master Alarm" from Horner's APOLLO 13 in there, clearly temp score

 

Holy cow, that's nuts!  Now I want to bust out the blu ray just to hear this

[Jay 37,364]

I've fully updated my google doc with all the new info

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IhZLePMbWPBo4hpObxYMfqiwlssi89hxBzr-1qrKDP8

[NL197 368]

Okay this is nuts: 

The 4K audio for Independence Day has the SCORE REMOVED from the Welcome Wagon / Oval Office additional

scene so the audio cut is not so jarring anymore. 

WOW. I had NO idea until I decided to revisit that just now.