Potterdom Film/Score Series Thread

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I deplore the fact that no composer has written a theme for Crookshanks yet

K.C

Aww! So gorgeous! You learned English so fast!

[Damo 0]

Doyle didn't seem like he was using John Williams as a guide but he had no choice but he had use John Williams themes in it at least once or twice bare minimum which he did so.

There is a big different between John Williams scores for the first three Harry Potter's films and Patrick Doyle for Goblet of fire.

Why would Doyle use Williams's themes, when Williams himself got rid of 95% percent of his themes for POA?? Only Hedwig's theme is used heavily in the film and then there's the Nimbus theme cameo at the end, other than that he didn't use any of the themes from the previous two movies.

And I'd say there's also a big difference between the first two scores and POA.

Dude reasons got to do with it. It not that difficult to work out why.the themes from the first two films beside hedwig theme and Nimbus theme woudn't not have work as well in the POA which is why williams compose new themes for POA. Think about it ...there no spider in POA....which is why there is no spider theme from CoS in POA or SS. There was no voldemort in POA which is why williams didn't use Voldemort theme in POA considering there is no voldemort involvement in it. There no Diagon Alley involvement in POA so which is why there is no Diagon Alley theme. No Gilderoy Lockhart in POA which is there is no Gilderoy Lockhart theme in POA. No Dobby The House Elf in POA which is why there is no Dobby The House Elf theme in it. No Moaning Myrtle in POA which is why there is no Moaning Myrtle theme in it. There is no Fawkes The Phoenix in POA which is why there is no Fawkes The Phoenix theme in it.

With all this reason I have mentioned above John Williams probably decided the best thing to do write a new freashy score with new themes for POA which he did so...beside Hedwig theme and Nimbus theme which are the main major classic themes.

Patrick Doyle left out four Williams themes which should have been included in Goblet of Fire. One of theme is Voldemort theme from Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. Two Moaning Myrtle from Chamber of Secrets. Three he left out the minior theme which is the Sirius Black theme. Four one he left out Nimbus 2000 theme.

One the rules from Warner Bros Film company that any composer other the orginial composer John Williams doing the score for Harry Potter must include Williams themes such as Hedwig theme or other themes about 2 or more times throughout the score.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Patrick Doyle's music was shit, looked like shit, smelled like shit, and sounded like shit, therefore its shit.

[Damo 0]

Just thinking about about it...I don't understand why some people are upset about John Williams leaving out a lot of old themes from the first two films in third POA. Williams compose new themes throughout those three films anyway so hence does it really matter if Williams wrote new themes or not considering it still considered to be John Williams???

Each Harry Potter book is different anyway as a series.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Just thinking about about it...I don't understand why some people are upset about John Williams leaving out a lot of old themes from the first two films in third POA. Williams compose new themes throughout those three films anyway so hence does it really matter if Williams wrote new themes or not considering it still considered to be John Williams???

Each Harry Potter book is different anyway as a series.

I don't think anyone was complaining about Williams not reusing themes. Most people here will tell you their favourite HP score is PoA (I would never wish to assume that, but I'm under the impression it's accurate).

I think the issue is that the themes and general material Doyle came up with for his film weren't as memorable, magical or "Wialliams-esque" as the others. Subject to opinion, of course, but that's why.

Each book isn't a different series, but I don't think that's what you meant. It's a different plot, but still part of an overall story with continuing development. There should be some continuity, but it wouldn't make much sense musically if it's not present visually. Most music from the first two films would be ridiculous against the stunning, dark visuals of PoA, and to an extent GoF. If there was one director (or at least one style) for all the films, then it would make sense to have one composer (or at least continuing music). Er... I think that's what I mean.

Oh geez, it's been over a year since I connected ideas into writing. I'm going to fail university.

[Damo 0]

Just thinking about about it...I don't understand why some people are upset about John Williams leaving out a lot of old themes from the first two films in third POA. Williams compose new themes throughout those three films anyway so hence does it really matter if Williams wrote new themes or not considering it still considered to be John Williams???

Each Harry Potter book is different anyway as a series.

I don't think anyone was complaining about Williams not reusing themes. Most people here will tell you their favourite HP score is PoA (I would never wish to assume that, but I'm under the impression it's accurate).

I think the issue is that the themes and general material Doyle came up with for his film weren't as memorable, magical or "Wialliams-esque" as the others. Subject to opinion, of course, but that's why.

Each book isn't a different series, but I don't think that's what you meant. It's a different plot, but still part of an overall story with continuing development.

Yes you right sorry I didn't mean to say each book is a different series. I mean't each book has a different alternate for good vs evil but in a series. More like a different plot like you said.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Oh geez, it's been over a year since I connected ideas into writing. I'm going to fail university.

It was two years for me, and I still got my BA. Hell, I loved it so much, I'm doing a Master of Media Practice this year at Sydney Uni. You'll be fine!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Doyle didn't seem like he was using John Williams as a guide but he had no choice but he had use John Williams themes in it at least once or twice bare minimum which he did so.

There is a big different between John Williams scores for the first three Harry Potter's films and Patrick Doyle for Goblet of fire.

Why would Doyle use Williams's themes, when Williams himself got rid of 95% percent of his themes for POA?? Only Hedwig's theme is used heavily in the film and then there's the Nimbus theme cameo at the end, other than that he didn't use any of the themes from the previous two movies.

And I'd say there's also a big difference between the first two scores and POA.

Dude reasons got to do with it. It not that difficult to work out why.the themes from the first two films beside hedwig theme and Nimbus theme woudn't not have work as well in the POA which is why williams compose new themes for POA. Think about it ...there no spider in POA....which is why there is no spider theme from CoS in POA or SS. There was no voldemort in POA which is why williams didn't use Voldemort theme in POA considering there is no voldemort involvement in it. There no Diagon Alley involvement in POA so which is why there is no Diagon Alley theme. No Gilderoy Lockhart in POA which is there is no Gilderoy Lockhart theme in POA. No Dobby The House Elf in POA which is why there is no Dobby The House Elf theme in it. No Moaning Myrtle in POA which is why there is no Moaning Myrtle theme in it. There is no Fawkes The Phoenix in POA which is why there is no Fawkes The Phoenix theme in it.

With all this reason I have mentioned above John Williams probably decided the best thing to do write a new freashy score with new themes for POA which he did so...beside Hedwig theme and Nimbus theme which are the main major classic themes.

One the rules from Warner Bros Film company that any composer other the orginial composer John Williams doing the score for Harry Potter must include Williams themes such as Hedwig theme or other themes about 2 or more times throughout the score.

And yet Williams decided to write a new family theme. The whole mood of the score also seems very different than the first one, in the way Williams writes and uses the orchestra in PoA. At least that's how it comes across to me. I'm not very well versed on the technical side of orchestral composing.

But what is this about this rule from WB? Where did your get that? This is the first I've heard of it.

I don't think anyone was complaining about Williams not reusing themes. Most people here will tell you their favourite HP score is PoA (I would never wish to assume that, but I'm under the impression it's accurate).

The biggest critique on Williams' PoA when it came out acutally was that he abandoned thematic continuity. A lot of people were really annoyed by it.

Thankfully, the score has since earned its place among the top Williams scores of the last few years. It's good enough to get away with discontinuity.

[Damo 0]

.......But what is this about this rule from WB? Where did your get that? This is the first I've heard of it.

The rule I'm trying to talk about is a contract agreement from Warner Bros when you signed up to do write the music for a particular film like Harry Potter and that rule is that you must use include John Williams theme (Hedwig theme) at least once or twice or more in the score. I read it somewhere on net ages ago. But I can't seem to find it.

They do for every other films that John Williams left the series such as Superman Return, Jurassic Park III....you name it.

[gkgyver 1,646]

And what a wise rule they have there!

I wouldn't have expressed it so drastically, but basically I agree with Joe's view on Doyle's GoF.

Why would Doyle use Williams's themes, when Williams himself got rid of 95% percent of his themes for POA??

Because the emotional aspects for which the new themes were written are still prominent in GoF. And because I think Williams wrote the themes with the intention of using them again. There's no proof for that, but I don't believe Williams didn't look ahead a little.

AND: most importantly, it doesn't matter whether Williams uses his own themes again, whether Doyle uses Williams' themes or whether Nicholas Hooper uses themes from both - the most important thing is that the series HAS a consistent use of themes once it's finished. And Doyle didn't exactly contribute to that.

And no matter how many themes Williams did or did not use in PoA, it is still easily identifiable as a Harry Potter score, which GoF isn't. Not even in one single aspect.

[John Crichton 4]

The biggest critique on Williams' PoA when it came out acutally was that he abandoned thematic continuity. A lot of people were really annoyed by it.

Thankfully, the score has since earned its place among the top Williams scores of the last few years. It's good enough to get away with discontinuity.

Indeed. It was a shock and took a bit to get used too. I still think SS is a better score in large part because of it's thematic structure, but PoA is a fine score in its own right too.

[Ollie 1,064]

POA required a different score when compared to the first two and Williams captured it perfectly. Plus I think Williams may have applied something he did for IJ & TLC. If you read the Liner notes for LC it mentions Williams felt he didn't need to lean on the thrill button, everytime you see Jones you don't need to hear the theme. The same might be applied to POA, everytime you see Hogwarts you don't need to hear the theme over and over. Plus you guys seem to forget that maybe Cauron requested Williams to take the music in a different direction and the same could have been requested of Doyle for GOF.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Most people here fail to realize that if John Williams had had a proper schedule for this and had written the entire thing himself, COS would have been a very different score. He would most likely not have done cut & paste jobs from the first score, and probably already abandoned a few of the themes in favour of new ones.

Another reason why the family theme from the first film is replaced with Window Of The Past is because Harry is getting older, so his feelings towards his parents mature, hence a more developed, mature theme.

[Ollie 1,064]

That's a good point. You're on a roll today.

[Damo 0]

John Williams always use the Hedwig theme for the opening scene....Do you think if John Williams did the Goblet of fire...do you think he will use hedwig theme for the opening scene for GOF or would revise his Voldemort theme for the opening scene but in much darker way?

I'm talking about the logo scene before the scene where that guy get killed by Voldemort.

I think he might just squeeze in a little notes of hedwig theme for Warner Bros Logo but in a darker tone and then go straight into something like voldemort theme in a darker way for the tom riddle scene.

[King Mark 3,631]

Williams is capable of writing much darker scores than Doyle,.

K.M.

[Red 75]

True, but he doesn't most of the time.

[Damo 0]

GOF would be a prefect film to hear Williams darker scores.

[John Crichton 4]

Williams is capable of writing much darker scores than Doyle,.

K.M.

Hey, look who the cat let out of the closet.

It's too bad that Williams left just when the series was going to take that darker turn. Larger statement of Voldemort's theme, I think A Window to the Past would have been used as the theme for Harry and Sirius, etc etc. But I can understand him not wanting to work with a revolving door of directors if that's indeed why he left the series, which I personally think is a major reason.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Actually darker music has never been Williams' greatest talent.

[Damo 0]

Still it's dark enough to sound like a scary score like the dementors scene in POA. The lost world is a dark score and it sound pretty good for a dark score for the lost world.

Which is Williams darkest score? TLW or POA?

[Henry B 50]

The Fury, Dracula, Munich, etc. are much darker by most standards. If you really want to hear Williams getting his freak on, go back to, say, Images, or that score K.M.'s mentioned, Screaming Woman or something? Not that I've heard these.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Although PoA might not be very thematically consistant with PS and CoS, it's still an amazing and magical score that sounds every bit like a Harry Potter score should sound. GoF does not. It is an unremarkable score in every respect. Even the infrequent use of Hedwig's Theme doesn't make it a Harry Potter score. The main thing I have against GoF is that it is mainly underscore that does support the film in some ways, but doesn't make for an impressive listening experience on CD at all. What I like about John Williams' Harry Potter scores is that they tell the story without having any need for the film at all. Though when attached to the films they were written for, it still works wonders.

What I noticed is that PoA's finale is much, much more impressive than the GoF finale. PoA's finale is absolutely spine-chilling, while I almost fell asleep during GoF's Voldemort cue. Considering that GoF's finale is supposed to be more important, dark and impressive than the PoA finale, something must have gone wrong somewhere. I think that if they would have pasted the PoA finale music in GoF, it might actually have worked better than the music that is in there now. And that is coming from someone who highly dislikes using music in films they weren't written for!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

The whole resurrection of Voldemort scene was poorly executed anyway. Scary? I think not. Blech.

Notice though, that GoF is the first score where Hedwig's Theme is in fact - apart from the opening title - used as Hedwig's theme, or an owl theme, more specifically. Doyle only uses it when we see owls flying about.

[Jacob 0]

Ah, come on guys. We all know that Hogwart's March is a definite classic.

[Red 75]

I don't think that anyone is arguing about that.

[Marian Schedenig 8,239]

Actually darker music has never been Williams' greatest talent.

The Fury

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

The Fury

Don't forget Close Encounters.

Now try to find something outside of the 1970's. Good luck with that.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's good, but not as good as the Omen, or Alien or Poltergeist.

as far as dark music goes Jerry has Johnny licked!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

It's good, but not as good as the Omen, or Alien or Poltergeist.

as far as dark music goes Jerry has Johnny licked!

I assume you're talking about the Fury, because Close Encounters of the Third Kind is better than Alien, The Omen, and Poltergeist, with room to spare.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Crystal meth again, Joe?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Never tried it, or even seen it Stefan

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

I assume you're talking about the Fury, because Close Encounters of the Third Kind is better than Alien, The Omen, and Poltergeist, with room to spare.

Ehehehe...

No.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Then it's just sheer lunacy!

I don't consider CE3K a dark score, a few parts of it are, but overall it's a joyous, uplifting expereince.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

The darkest moments in CE3K soundtrack couldn't touch The Omen soundtrack with a 600 foot long mother ship.

[Red 75]

Yeah, thats kind of a rediculous statement.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

...The Fury has much stronger material than CE3K, especially in terms of darkness.

Face it, Barry's Kidnapping is just chalkboard scratching.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

your crazy, the best and scariest moments of Close Encounters are what terror is made of.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

your crazy, the best and scariest moments of Close Encounters are what terror is made of.

The honor of "what terror is made of" goes to Spock Walk.  

[gkgyver 1,646]

I never found CE3K terrifying. Captivating, enchanting, mysterious, powerful, awe-inspiring, fascinating, but terrifying?

[Jacob 0]

I don't think that anyone is arguing about that.

Nah, it was just my lame attempt at wit.

Yay! 100 posts!

[Marian Schedenig 8,239]

Now try to find something outside of the 1970's. Good luck with that.

Perhaps not terrifying, but wonderfully dark: The Chamber of Secrets (the track with this title, not the entire score).

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Perhaps not terrifying, but wonderfully dark: The Chamber of Secrets (the track with this title, not the entire score).

Indeed, that's an excellent concert piece.

~Sturgis

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

Now try to find something outside of the 1970's. Good luck with that.

Perhaps not terrifying, but wonderfully dark: The Chamber of Secrets (the track with this title, not the entire score).

I think the most effectively dark/creepy music Williams has ever written comes about 3 minutes into "The Droid Invasion/Appearance of Darth Maul."

Now that's spine tinglingly good.  

For Harry Potter, I'd vote Peter Pettigrew's theme.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

I think the most effectively dark/creepy music Williams has ever written comes about 3 minutes into "The Droid Invasion/Appearance of Darth Maul." Now that's spine tinglingly good.

I see what you mean, with that dark reprise of the theme, it's chilling.

~Sturgis, who thinks that's a brilliant theme

[Henry B 50]

Monsignor is very dark. Well - in an... uplifting way.

[Red 75]

There are parts of E.T. that are dark. The Lost World is pretty dark too.

[John Crichton 4]

It's beyond me that we could have talked this much about Williams' great dark moments and not mentioned:

- The Dark Side Beckons

- Opening the Ark

- Pretty much the whole second half of the Temple of Doom

- Moving Things Along/Anakin's Dark Deeds

Those are all pretty much "power dark" though, subtlety need not apply.

John- who agrees with Marian and Sturg that The Chamber of Secrets is a superb theme/concert piece

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

No one has mentioned Minority Report and War of the Worlds. But I agree with Steef; Jerry Goldsmith could out-dark Williams so much, even a maglite couldn't save him from total blackness.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

It's beyond me that we could have talked this much about Williams' great dark moments and not mentioned:

- The Dark Side Beckons

That's gotta take the cake. It's perhaps the most chilling, powerful 30 seconds of any of Williams' scores.

Ray Barnsbury