What is Williams's most recent great score?

[fommes 154]

Well, there have been many debates about Williams's recent style and scores, so what is the Maestro's most recent really great score according to you? Which score is in line with The Empire Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark, E.T. and Schindler's List, among others?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,282]

Harry Potter & The Philosophers/Sorcerer's Stone.

Nothing else has come close in recent years, sadly.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Yep, there's really no contest. Several of the scores up there are quite good, but my favorite by far is HP.

Ray Barnsbury

[Lurker 5]

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone

Neil

[Audax 0]

Sorcerer's Stone definitely

[King Mark 3,635]

I consider HPPS,A.I.,and The Phantom Menace to be equally great score,on par with the other classics.

TPM has the most interesting underscore

A.I. is the most emotionally involving

HPPS has the best themes

K.M.

[Marian Schedenig 8,333]

HPPS. COS is great as well, but HPPS is a masterpiece and one of his best scores.

Marian - who hasn't listened to it in months.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,282]

TPM has fairly uninvolving underscore, IMO.

[JoeinAR 1,951]

Catch Me If You Can, then Chamber of Secrets, then Sorcerer's Stone, then the Phantom Menance, then Lost World, then Jurassic Part, the Empire of the Sun, then TOD, then ET, then Raiders, then ESB, then Superman, then Jaws 2, then Close Encounters, then Star Wars, then Jaws, then the Towering Inferno.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,282]

Oh come on, CoS is NOT a classic, surely?

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Catch Me If You Can, then Chamber of Secrets, then Sorcerer's Stone, then the Phantom Menance, then Lost World, then Jurassic Part, the Empire of the Sun, then TOD, then ET, then Raiders, then ESB, then Superman, then Jaws 2, then Close Encounters, then Star Wars, then Jaws, then the Towering Inferno.

LOL A fitting reply I suppose.

Ray Barnsbury

[HPFAN_2 0]

Catch Me If You Can

[Rogue_Leader 2]

I thought Chamber of Secrets was great.

Perhaps not as great as some but still definately great.

[Morlock 11]

TPM has fairly uninvolving underscore, IMO.

I think it's some of JW's best underscore.

And I think TPM is the best out of the lot, but I think they're all great, except for The Patriot and AoTC.

[fommes 154]

After careful consideration I have decided that I myself am going for Minority Report.

[JoeinAR 1,951]

Oh come on, CoS is NOT a classic, surely?

yes it is for Fawkes Theme and the Chamber of Secret themes. Also love the musical ques to the spiders and Leaving Hogwarts.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,282]

4 cues hardly contitutes a classic score, and the Reunion Of Friends cue is pretty much all music from HPSS.

For me the score lacks direction and a certain finesse that the first score DID have.

[Henry B 51]

Sorceror's Stone. The Phantom Menace and The Patriot were close seconds.

TPM has fairly uninvolving underscore, IMO.

Duel of the Fates, The Flag Parade, Anakin Is Free, Underwater Adventure, Anakin Destroys the Control Ship, The Battle of Naboo...uninvolving underscore?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,282]

Duel Of The Fates is not underscore.

The Flag Parade is a good 1+ minute cue

Anakin Is Free has a brilliant conclusion, that's about it.

I don't care much for Underwater Adventure at all, just bombast without any themes.

Anakin Destroys The Control Ship is very good.

The Battle Of Naboo has good parts, but also some pretty average ones.

As I said before, TPM is a good score, with several BRILLIANT moments, but IMO it's not a masterpiece of the same order of TESB, SW, or E.T.

[Henry B 51]

Duel Of The Fates is not underscore.

Not the concert suite, but its use in the final battle (not counting the parts that were tracked).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,282]

Is there any moment in the film that has a choral segment of DOTF that does NOT come from the concert track?

DOTF is a very good piece, but it's ruined in the film, and the concert version runs about a minute to long for my taste.

Anakin's Theme is very good, but it's the only new theme that's used thoughout the entire film in any major way, and it's not strong enough to support the entire score like this.

Other new themes are good, but seem to be used very sparingly, almost like cameo's.

Qui-Gon's Theme pop's up once or twice.

We get to hear the Trade Federation march in the beginning of the film, then it's abondoned till nearly the end.

DOTF comes in very late in the film, and is butchered to death.

Jar Jar's Theme i's only used about 2 times and not very noteworthy.

The themes for Anakin's Mother are so low key and restrained that they do not make much of an impact at all.

A lot of the films action cues are made up of rapid fire brass cues that do not really offer anything intesting in a thematic sense (nothing compared to The Battle Of Yavin, The Battle Of Hoth or The Battle Of Endor, anyway).

TPM is a good score, especially if you don't listen to it immidiatly after listening to Star Wars.

[Morlock 11]

I think the use of the themes in the movie are what make it so great. He doesn't need to repeat a theme a dozen times, he uses them exactly when they are needed. He has several very strong themes, and except for Duel of The Fates you don't get too much of any of them, yet you get all you need. The three versions of Qui-Gon's theme are all I need, each one is different, and they gve you the complete power of the theme.

And Duel of the Fates, Anakin's Theme, Qui-Gon's Theme, and the Droid March are all fantastic themes IMO, as good as the themes from the original movies.

I think ALL of these cues are great (from the UE)

Boarding The Federation Battleship -A great opening to the story

Fighting The Destroyer Droids -Good, satisfying renditions of Luke's and The Force themes

The Droid Invasion -Fantstic cue, with a great new theme

Qui-Gon And Obi-Wan Rescue The Queen -Very nice march

Fighting The Guards -One of the best cues. I don't know what to call it, but it's fantastic string work

Escape From Naboo -Really great action cue

The Flag Parade -Good theme, and as usual, Williams doesn't leave us hanging, he makes it bigger and better

Anakin is Free -Good, straight rendition of Qui-Gon's theme

Qui-Gon And Darth Maul Meet -Fantastic action, fast paced version of the theme

War Plans -Nice uplifting theme there

The Republic Pilots Take Off Into Space -Also, nice optimistic flying theme

The Duel Begins -A great begining to the big duel

The Battle Rages On -Just plain good old action cue

Qui-Gon, Darth Maul And The Invisible Wall -Very short, but I love the music as they're waiting for the wall

The Death of Qui-Gon And the Surrender of The Gungans -Some percussion leads into Invisible Wall motif and Darth Maul's Theme, and then into the great, tragic music as Qui-Gonm is killed, and that fantastic defeat music

The Tide Turns & The Death of Darth Maul -One of the best and most uplifting buildups JW has done. And you've got the reflective Qui-Gon theme at the end.

The Queen Confronts Nute And Rune -Some nice music, leading into Yoda's theme and the eery reappearance of the Imperial March.

The Funeral of Qui-Gon -Very nice choral work there.

And those are only the especialy good ones IMO. I love just about every track.

I think Williams did an amazing job with the movie, adn delivered a magnificent score that by all means should've matched and surpassed the hopes and expectations of the fans, and this score was probably the most eagerly awaited score fo all times. And from what I've seen, most people agree that it indeed surpassed their expectations.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I'm tired of not knowing what cues people are talking about with TPM, should I get the Ultimate Edition despite its flaws?

Ray Barnsbury

[Morlock 11]

Yes. Though I'm told there are several boots that are better, you need at least something, and IMO your missing out on a lot if you don't get the extended score.

Morlock- who conciders the original release a sampler

[QMM 4]

For TPM I thought that Qui Gon's theme was very underused along with the Trade Federation march, both great new themes that only appeared briefly throughout the film

[Justin 2]

Star Wars - Episode I - The Phantom Menace

Justin

[Lurker 5]

I'm tired of not knowing what cues people are talking about with TPM, should I get the Ultimate Edition despite its flaws?

Ray Barnsbury

But it used.....if you must.

Neil

[Justin 2]

I'm tired of not knowing what cues people are talking about with TPM, should I get the Ultimate Edition despite its flaws?

But it used.....if you must.

Buy it used or get one of the boots.

Justin

[King Mark 3,635]

I'm tired of not knowing what cues people are talking about with TPM, should I get the Ultimate Edition despite its flaws?

Ray Barnsbury.

Yes buy it.Neil and Stefancos tend to be biased in their appreciation of the music when the movie it acompanies is not "up to par".

The music has quite a few jarring edits in the UE,but it shouldn't prevent you to enjoying the new material in most instances.

-An official advice form King Mark

[CYPHER 1]

Ray, I agree with K.M. - the pleasure and enjoyment to be gained from The Phantom Menace: Ultimate Edition CD far surpass the other dissatisfying elements, such as the poor edits.

My vote in this poll went to A.I Artifical Intelligence. I really love many of the scores on this list, but this score won out for the following reasons:

1. It's a refreshing and different score for Williams. It mightn't be particularly original in terms of classical music more generally, but there are a lot of welcome innovations on display here, especially certain minimalist flourishes, which I very much enjoy.

2. It tells a more cogent, effective and emotional story better than just about any of the other scores listed. And the fact that I can love the score and love the tale it tells, despite quite disliking the film, attests to the skill and quality invested in it.

CYPHER

[nja 0]

Ray, I agree with K.M. - the pleasure and enjoyment to be gained from The Phantom Menace: Ultimate Edition CD far surpass the other dissatisfying elements, such as the poor edits.

My vote in this poll went to A.I Artifical Intelligence. I really love many of the scores on this list, but this score won out for the following reasons:

1. It's a refreshing and different score for Williams. It mightn't be particularly original in terms of classical music more generally, but there are a lot of welcome innovations on display here, especially certain minimalist flourishes, which I very much enjoy.

2. It tells a more cogent, effective and emotional story better than just about any of the other scores listed. And the fact that I can love the score and love the tale it tells, despite quite disliking the film, attests to the skill and quality invested in it.  

CYPHER

My vote also went to AI for reason #1. Also, For Always is one of those absolutely incredible melodies.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Cool, thanks guys. I doubt that the edits will annoy me very much, if I do notice them.

Ray Barnsbury

[mahler3 478]

Oh come on, CoS is NOT a classic, surely?

yes it is for Fawkes Theme and the Chamber of Secret themes. Also love the musical ques to the spiders and Leaving Hogwarts.

Yes I agree, 'Fawkes the Phoenix' surpasses any of the P.S. cues, 'Leaving Hogwarts' and 'Harry's Wondrous World' have superior conclusions IMO. The Lockhart, and Dobby the Elf themes are delightfully playful (even if Dobby does sound like 'Star of Bethlehem' at certain intervals!)

Back to topic, i voted for 'A.I.' but it was a close race between Potter and 'Unfinished Journey'!

-Tim.

Mahler's Resurrection Symphony: 1st Movement - LSO conducted by Leonard Bernstein

[Unlucky Bastard 7,937]

I couldn't pick one. All of the above mentioned scores serve their purpose in their respective films really well - plus most of them sound great on CD. Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone will probably be his most successful "classic" in this period of his career. Unlike most other people, I enjoy The Patriot very much. I'm always emotionally provoked by A.I. - Artificial Intelligence, as with Minority Report. I don't have Catch Me If You Can, but I plan to get it eventually.

However, I can never listen to Angela's Ashes. It worked well with the film, but I cannot help being snoozed to ashes when making an attempt to listen to it on its own. Maybe it'll grow on me, but not any time soon. Definately not his most recent "great" score to me.

TPM, AOTC and Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets are all good, but again, being sequel (or prequel) scores as they are, I couldn't bear to pick which one would have been his most recent "great". I enjoy them all too much.

It's all subjective I suppose.

[Lurker 5]

Neil and Stefancos tend to be biased in their appreciation of the music when the movie it acompanies is not "up to par".

Mark, time to get your facts straight. I enjoy the score to The Phantom Menace. I don't think it's on a level with the earlier 3 scores, but it's very good.

As for the film, if I totally hated it would I have:

seen it 11 times theatrically?

driven over 100 miles to see it a 10th time (in one of 4 digital projection equipped theaters)?

bought the Japanese laser disc for $110?

Of course, AOTC was so bad I have taken to calling it "retroactively bad", meaning it sucked so much it made the one before it bad too, but I still enjoy the pod race and some of the early stuff on Naboo as well as the duel.

As for not liking music for crappy movies, one simple word: Supergirl. An almost unwatchable film with a dynamite score that I listen to quite often.

I HATE the "Ultimate Edition" CD of The Phantom Menace becuase it is a shoddy product and Mr. Williams' music, Mr. Williams and us (the buying public) all deserve better. It in no way represents his intentions for the music and instead gives us some warped, bizarro, bastardized, piece of trash that no one in their right mind should have ever released. Ray, when we're in Boston I'll let you hear how The Phantom Menace should really sound. It's far better than that unlistenable piece of junk Sony Classical unleashed on an unwitting public.

Neil

[A24 4,378]

Anakin is Free -Good, straight rendition of Qui-Gon's theme

 Qui-Gon And Darth Maul Meet -Fantastic action, fast paced version of the theme

 

My son and I couldn't agree more. This new theme has to be the most underrated theme that Williams wrote for the prequels. Its shortness is probably the reason why everyone is dismissing this. I'll bet even Williams already forgotten about it. And it's also one of the best scenes of the first prequel. How could it not be? The desert as background, a Jedi, a mysterious Sith, two fiercely wielding lightsabers, no dialogue, Williams' theme.

---------------

Alex Cremers - fan of the Ultimate Edition TMP soundtrack for its content and sound.

[MSM 126]

Last great score: Philosopher's Stone.

Regarding TPM, my respect for this score has been growing over the years. As an album it's now even in my top 10 of fav Williams scores, and Anakin's Theme, The Droid Battle, Over the Edge and Jar Jar's Introduction even made it to my 4-cd The Best of JW.

[fommes 154]

I'm tired of not knowing what cues people are talking about with TPM, should I get the Ultimate Edition despite its flaws?

Buy it, this cue makes it worth it:

The Tide Turns & The Death of Darth Maul -One of the best and most uplifting buildups JW has done. And you've got the reflective Qui-Gon theme at the end.

I consider those few seconds with the Force theme underscored by Duel of the Fates one of the best segments Williams ever wrote.

bought the Japanese laser disc for $110

That's like buying a CD by some obscure composer for $128...

[A24 4,378]

Quote Indysolo:

"bought the Japanese laser disc for $110"

Quote Lotman:

That's like buying a CD by some obscure composer for $128...

Ouch!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,282]

Yes buy it.Neil and Stefancos tend to be biased in their appreciation of the music when the movie it acompanies is not "up to par".

Wrong, lad.

I think the quality of a film and the quality of the score often have little to do with each other.

Could I be a Goldsmith fan otherwise?

[Marian Schedenig 8,333]

the "Ultimate Edition" CD of The Phantom Menace (becuase it) is a shoddy product and Mr. Williams' music, Mr. Williams and us (the buying public) all deserve better.

Agreed.

It in no way represents his intentions for the music and instead gives us some warped, bizarro, bastardized, piece of trash that no one in their right mind should have ever released.

I don't know about Williams intentions for the music on CD (something that usually puzzles me with his score CD "arrangements", IMHO many of since JP suck), but at least the "Ultimate Edition" still represents the score MUCH better than the original 1CD album, which as far as I'm concerned isn't much more than a copy & paste mess which not only doesn't have a lot of great music from the score but also lacks any musical coherence.

Marian - who will listen to the UE now.

[Lurker 5]

bought the Japanese laser disc for $110

That's like buying a CD by some obscure composer for $128...

Let's do a little fact checking first. At the time, in the US the only way to get TPM on home video was on VHS. I haven't bought a pre-recorded video in years. Why would I waste my time on crap-vision VHS? The LD was being imported into this country from Japan, however. It has Japanese sub-titles, but they never really intrude on the big picture. Even the crawl is in English. Plus it's the original cut of the movie, which the eventual DVD was not, and the sound is superior to the DVD. Also in the LD days, it wasn't unusual to spend $100+ for a movie. The THX Defintive Collection of the 3 films was released in 1993 and was 9 discs and sold for $250. I could go on and on about all the LD's I have that sold for $100 or more, but I don't like to brag. Just know that in that era it was par for the course.

Neil

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Isn't 2000 a bit late for the Laser Disc era?

-Ross, ignorant.

[Lurker 5]

Isn't 2000 a bit late for the Laser Disc era?

-Ross, ignorant.

Not if they were still releasing laser discs.

Neil

[diskobolus 3]

I HATE the "Ultimate Edition" CD of The Phantom Menace becuase it is a shoddy product and Mr. Williams' music, Mr. Williams and us (the buying public) all deserve better.  It in no way represents his intentions for the music and instead gives us some warped, bizarro, bastardized, piece of trash that no one in their right mind should have ever released.  Ray, when we're in Boston I'll let you hear how The Phantom Menace should really sound.  It's far better than that unlistenable piece of junk Sony Classical unleashed on an unwitting public.

Neil

Can you explain this a bit more? I have the UE, and I don't think it's so bad, they did give us all the cues. I don't really like how the tracks are 20 seconds long, but...

[Lurker 5]

I HATE the "Ultimate Edition" CD of The Phantom Menace becuase it is a shoddy product and Mr. Williams' music, Mr. Williams and us (the buying public) all deserve better.  It in no way represents his intentions for the music and instead gives us some warped, bizarro, bastardized, piece of trash that no one in their right mind should have ever released.  Ray, when we're in Boston I'll let you hear how The Phantom Menace should really sound.  It's far better than that unlistenable piece of junk Sony Classical unleashed on an unwitting public.

Neil

Can you explain this a bit more? I have the UE, and I don't think it's so bad, they did give us all the cues. I don't really like how the tracks are 20 seconds long, but...

Lets start with the packaging. "Here at last is every note of the original music that John Williams composed for Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace." This album in no way is every note he wrote. There is music on the original album that is not on the UE. There is music from the video games that is not on the album. Hell, some of the music that turned up in the battle on Geonosis in AOTC is un-unsed TPM music that is not on the album. So please tell me how this, "is every note of the original music that John Williams composed for Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace"?

And then you get to the ridiculously bad editing. Williams never intended to have the concert version of Duel of the Fates in the movie, but on this album it's cut up all over the place and we never hear the version he intended to be in the movie, which to my ears, is the far more exciting version. Plus there are all sorts of loops and repeated phrases that make the UE an extremely frustating listening experience.

A wise man once said, "I'm glad it was released becuase it gave EJ [Elvis Jones] better material to work with for his much superiour bootleg." That's about all the UE is good for. It certainly fails as an entertaining listen and as I stated before it does not reflect Williams' intentions. It reflects the way Lucas manhandled Williams' music into his movie.

It is probably the worst John Williams album ever released (and yes, that includes The Patriot).

Neil

[King Mark 3,635]

the "Ultimate Edition" CD of The Phantom Menace (becuase it) is a shoddy product and Mr. Williams' music, Mr. Williams and us (the buying public) all deserve better.

Agreed.

Marian - who will listen to the UE now.

yeah.sure.But what re yopu gonna do,do a silent boycott of the UE to make a point,and wat till a third properly sequenced c.d. set is released....which might never happen?

By not recommending the UE to Ray,he cannot hear such great cues as:Fighting the Destroyers Droids,GuiGon and Obi Wan Rescue the Queen,Fighting the Guards,Padme Mets Anakin,all the Tatooine source music,Darth Sidious and Darth Maul,Talk of Pod Racing,The Racer Roars To Life,Anakin's Midichlorian Count,Hail to the Winner Anakin Skylwalker,Anakin is Free,Gui-Gon and Darth Maul Meet,All the facinating Coruscant cues impossible to even hear in the film,War Plans,*****skip bad section of the UE HERE****,The Tide Turns and The Death of Gui-Gon.and I do mean all those cues not on the OST is top notch,great Williams.

K.M.

[nja 0]

yeah.sure.But what re yopu gonna do,do a silent boycott of the UE to make a point,and wat till a third properly sequenced c.d. set is released....which might never happen?

K.M.

There is some truth to that. While I'm not crazy about some of the things that happened regarding TPM UE, I'm glad to have something rather than nothing- as is currently the case with AOTC.

[King Mark 3,635]

Isn't 2000 a bit late for the Laser Disc era?

-Ross, ignorant.

Not if they were still releasing laser discs.

Neil

I must run to buy a VHS tape of TPM before they don't sell that format anymore!

K.M.

[Marian Schedenig 8,333]

the "Ultimate Edition" CD of The Phantom Menace (becuase it) is a shoddy product and Mr. Williams' music, Mr. Williams and us (the buying public) all deserve better.

Agreed.

yeah.sure.But what re yopu gonna do,do a silent boycott of the UE to make a point,and wat till a third properly sequenced c.d. set is released....which might never happen?

By not recommending the UE to Ray,he cannot hear such great cues as:

Then why didn't you quote the rest of my post, in which I clearly said that I consider the UE to be superior to the original album? Which to me is a clear recommendation.

Marian -