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For Your Consideration, John Williams, HPPOA


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The question is, does it come with a 2 CD set of the full score?

Neil

That would be significant wouldn't it?But the first 2 scores were only the commercial c.d. version.Then again maybe Williams REALLY wants to win this year VS the risk of bootlegs beeing made.

K.M.

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JW seems only to win if it its just so obvious that you couldn?t imagine him not winning. Which means if history is any guide he won?t win for PoA or The Terminal. Leaving aside Fiddler, which is another category, Jaws, Star Wars, ET and Schindler?s List were all critically acclaimed, very successful movies, where the music played a very noticable and important role. They all had the oscar-auro of a top-tier film with a lot of popular recognition for the music, as film scores go.

Anything short of that, and he doesn?t seem to win. At least the academy isn?t shy about nominating him, though.

- Adam

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Indeed.I don't have a good feeling this year either.The last time Williams had a chance was A.I.,but that movie wasn't the sucess it might have been.I think the looping of Hedwig's Theme in the first part of Sorcerer's Stone might have hurt Williams chances too.

It's a sure bet Vangelis won't get nominated for Alexander though.

K.M.

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What do you mean by the looping? Just the repetitiveness of the theme? I heard some reviewers complain about that but I think the bigger factor was that LOTR had the Oscar-buzz that year - much more critically acclaimed than HP. Not to take anything away from Shore but it almost wouldn't have mattered who wrote that score, they were probably going to win, especially since its such a large canvass for a musical score to be noticed.

- Adam

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Doesn't sound repeated in the way you mean,it sounds looped a few times to me.Or various takes tossed into scenes at the beginning.When you listen to the DVD score rip,the music is very choppy untill they get to Hogwarts.

K.M.

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I can sort of remember some choppiness, a few bad edits maybe. Nothing that I could call looping but maybe I'm not understanding what you're meaning. But I?m skeptical as to how much of the academy really evaluates and listens to the scores at all, much less notices things like that. There?s been some strange winners.

- Adam

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JW seems only to win if it its just so obvious that you couldn?t imagine him not winning.

yeah if that were only true then he would have won for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, Home Alone, Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Empire Strikes Back, and Superman

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It's no surprise he didn't win for PS or AI (both nominated in the same year). Aside from the Oscar buzz for FotR, Williams was also conducting that year. It's not very practical to have to hand the Oscar to the conductor, whose pretty much stuck in his booth below the stage. :sadwavey:

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JW seems only to win if it its just so obvious that you couldn?t imagine him not winning.

yeah if that were only true then he would have won for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, Home Alone, Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Empire Strikes Back, and Superman

I?m talking about obvious from the point of view of the distorted criteria of the Academy, not what is objectively most deserving. On the distorted grounds of the academy, Home Alone doesn?t qualify because the movie was supremely disliked by most critics. HP doesn?t qualify for the reasons I stated - LOTR had much more Oscar hype, movie and score. Emprire Strikes Back was a sequel score and lost to a musically very popular film, Fame, where evidently most of the academy didn?t know they were voting for underscore and not the songs. Raiders lost to Chariots of Fire, a score that could have been predicted to win based on how popular and successful the music was with the general public. Superman is maybe the one case where I would have felt that it should be obvious, even by the distorted criteria of the acedemy. But I know nothing about the score or the film that won that year, Midnight Express.

- Adam

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AI should have won, or HP & PS... It was no use giving two for Shore with basically the same work, and when many agree, ROTK was the best of the three (and the only one truly deserving).

If LOTR is one-volume-story, it should have one-time-won score too :sadwavey:

I hope Williams gets at least one more oscar before he retires :)

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Well, the three LotR scores were written seperately, so I don't think the one-movie argument counts here.

I never was quite sure who should've one that year. FotR is the perfect Tolkien score, but HPPS is a very rich classical score, and AI is one of Williams' most beautiful works. Monster's, Inc. was not good enough I think, but I was happy that Randy Newman finally got an Oscar that night (for the Monsters, Inc. song). I think A Beautiful Mind probably just got the nomination because the film was clear Oscar bait.

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It was no use giving two for Shore with basically the same work, and when many agree, ROTK was the best of the three (and the only one truly deserving).

FOTR and ROTK are quite different from each other. If Williams should have won for ESB (and he should), FOTR and ROTK are different enough as well.

If LOTR is one-volume-story, it should have one-time-won score too :(

It was released in three parts...

I hope Williams gets at least one more oscar before he retires :(

Chances may be small, but he really deserves one for POA, IMHO.

Marian - not giving up hope completely.

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I believe Midnight Express is an electronic score.

Indeed it is. And not a particulaly good one at that.

I never was quite sure who should've one that year. FotR is the perfect Tolkien score, but HPPS is a very rich classical score, and AI is one of Williams' most beautiful works. Monster's, Inc. was not good enough I think, but I was happy that Randy Newman finally got an Oscar that night (for the Monsters, Inc. song). I think A Beautiful Mind probably just got the nomination because the film was clear Oscar bait.

I'm also split on that year. HP is a masterpiece, but so is FoTR. HP is an amazing score, as is FoTR. But FoTR is totaly and entirely a one of a kind, original work. But I simply like HP more.

AI I have a lot of admiration for, but as a whole, I'm not amazingly fond of the score, and I think the movie and album suffers from overuse of Monica's theme.

Monster's, Inc. was not good enough I think, but I was happy that Randy Newman finally got an Oscar that night (for the Monsters, Inc. song).

Monsters Inc. is a totaly negligable score, IMO. Song's nice, thoguh.

I think A Beautiful Mind probably just got the nomination because the film was clear Oscar bait.

I think the score's very good, deserving of the nomination.

Morlock- who thinks Shore deserved to win for RoTK, but deserving had nothing to do with his win

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I'm also split on that year. HP is a masterpiece, but so is FoTR. HP is an amazing score, as is FoTR. But FoTR is totaly and entirely a one of a kind, original work. But I simply like HP more.

I couldn't say which I like more. I do believe that Shore's score is absolutely perfect for Tolkien, probably better than what nearly every one else would have done, so I think he deserved the Oscar over Williams. Musically, Williams has the upper hand, with one his most thematically and orchestrationally complex scores, so he should have gotten a Grammy for it.

Marian - who said this before. :(

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LOTR winning didn?t bother me too much because, athough I have my criticisms, its basically a very effective, impressive score. And compared with Fame winning over TESB and other examples, LOTR over HP and AI is well within the range of reasonable debate. My own choice would have been AI but that?s not really taking anything away from HP. Its just a more unique opportunity and score.

While I agree, Morlock, that Monica?s Theme is probably overrepresented on the soundtrack, especially since we get the two pop versions, I disagree that its overrepresented in the movie. It makes a couple brief appearances in the first 3rd of the movie and then disappears for pretty much the entire movie until the final 15 minues or so at the end of the movie. The structure of the movie is so unusual that the theme never really had a presense in the movie until the end. I think that relates to one of the reasons many people didn?t like the movie - the sentimentality felt too tacked on and forced. Spielberg didn?t really prepare the audience for that kind of finale and the score reflects this fact, I think.

- Adam

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Justin - Who thinks Dances With Wolves is a better score than Home Alone.

DWW is quite exceptional. But Home Alone is Home Alone. And Home Alone is pure magic, it's a towering achievment, IMO DWW is an amazing score from a composer doing what he does best, but Home Alone is wholy unique. DWW is the quintessential Barry 'sweeping' score, but Home Alone is just....scrumtrilescent.

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While I agree, Morlock, that Monica?s Theme is probably overrepresented on the soundtrack, especially since we get the two pop versions, I disagree that its overrepresented in the movie.  It makes a couple brief appearances in the first 3rd of the movie and then disappears for pretty much the entire movie until the final 15 minues or so at the end of the movie. The structure of the movie is so unusual that the theme never really had a presense in the movie until the end. I think that relates to one of the reasons many people didn?t like the movie - the sentimentality felt too tacked on and forced. Spielberg didn?t really prepare the audience for that kind of finale and the score reflects this fact, I think.

I can barely listen to the CD because of it. But in the movie, I guess overrepresented is the wrong word, but I think the theme is a bit too sweet. I am one of those who believe the ending is not at all sentimental, and while it needed a love theme, I think that one is just a bit too much.

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DWW is quite exceptional. But Home Alone is Home Alone. And Home Alone is pure magic, it's a towering achievment, IMO DWW is an amazing score from a composer doing what he does best, but Home Alone is wholy unique. DWW is the quintessential Barry 'sweeping' score, but Home Alone is just....scrumtrilescent.

There is no comparison. The right score won the Oscar that year.

Neil

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Neil: :(

Morlock: Everything you said about Home Alone I'd probably agree with. Maybe not quite as extremly, but it's still a wonderfull score that comes in a close second.

Ren: Good Philosophy. :(

Justin - Who thinks Dances is just pure brilliance.

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DWW is quite exceptional. But Home Alone is Home Alone. And Home Alone is pure magic, it's a towering achievment, IMO DWW is an amazing score from a composer doing what he does best, but Home Alone is wholy unique. DWW is the quintessential Barry 'sweeping' score, but Home Alone is just....scrumtrilescent.

There is no comparison. The right score won the Oscar that year.

Neil

I disagree.

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I see your point, Morlock, about the ending of AI but I just disagree slightly. I think Spielberg?s vision, although maybe the wrong one, was to have a very sentimental ending and I think that shows up in the way the scene is shot, including the tears that fall from David?s face, the lighting, the final narration by Kingsly talking about going to that place where dreams are born, etc. I saw the film twice at a theater and, surprisingly, the first audience I saw it with seemed to buy into everything and clapped at the end of the film. And though I thought the film was flawed, I was a bit touched by the ending myself. The second time I saw the movie, the audience turned against it and people were scoffing and

laughing at the screen. But, at any rate, the first part of the theme seems to emphasize the

Mother-son lullabye aspect with the second part providing more of the timeless, love will endure everything type of feeling. And the use of piano to carry the melody actually gives the scene a certain classical restraint. But I could see how it would feel out of place if you're getting something different out of the ending.

Its been too long since I?ve seen Dances with Wolves. I used to own the music and I liked the love theme and a few other spots but, overall, its just too tedious. I couldn?t get through it. But, as I say, I?d need to see the film again to evaluate how it works with the movie.

- Adam

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I also disagree.

I also disagree, John Barry is exceptional, but his music is exactly the same as James Horner, it always sounds the same, which isn't a bad thing, its just his style is more centered than many composers.

Joe, who likes Out of Africa better.

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I agree with Morlock. Dances is enjoyable, but like Adam and Joe said, it's a bit tedious and sounds very much like a lot of Barry's other work. Home Alone is unique among Williams scores, but has his unmistakable sound and a wonderful sense of warmth, magic, and mystery. Perfect score for the holidays, and a perfect score overall.

Ray Barnsbury

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As for the non-Williams nominees, I hope Finding Neverland is nominated. Kaczmarek's work is delicately supportive and never ostentatious or unnecessarily jarring. I don't think the last scene with Barrie and Peter on the bench could have been scored more perfectly... Horner would've destroyed it with massive string swells, but Kaczmarek opts for a calm yet luminous wordless choir, seguing into a gentle, ruminative piano solo -- the sort that seems to be Kaczmarek's specialty.

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The Village should get one. While the CD is not a very good listen, all the action music makes my ears bleed, but the violin parts are so amazingly beautiful. Whenever puting the CD on, I always just listen to track 1, 2, 6, and 8.

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