SturgisPodmore 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 here's another one: What's film music got over classicalThis coming from a guy who quotes himself in his signature.~Sturgis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmilne 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 So what, so did einstein, what's your point. yes indeed, but it's also coming from the youngest film composer in hollywood. I understand the subject as i have found it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Now you're comparing yourself to Einstein! When will the madness end!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledzo 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 llll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 That's right. But the film music is there to support the movie and if you notice it it is a small miracle (I am talking about your average joe here. I actively listen to the score in the movie almost all the time and sometime it is unconcscious reflex nowadays). Film music works in amny ways. It can be subtle and unnoticed and it can be big noticeable and carry the narrative and tell the story through music more powerfully than words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledzo 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 llll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 That what you said is true. I do not think Williams has done too badly these recent years (ROTS, HP series ect.) but the way directors present music in their movies has changed. Subtle is the word of the day it seems but there are exceptions to that rule (LOTR has a very audible and effective score and Jackson saw that as an integral part of his movies and that is great). As I have said many times Williams should be let loose to compose full blown orchestral scores like in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledzo 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 llll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Oh, he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmilne 0 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 When will the madness end!?all composers are mad!!!!!The most horrible thing a person can say about a film score is "oh yea, that's classical music" Classical music was written without a lot of emotion. A film score without emotion does not complement a film in any way.Film scores, in particular John Williams's are neo-romantic, which means they are written in a style commonly found between 1800-1910. This was the golden age of music with composers like tchaikovsky and rachmaninov (or rachmaninoff) composing from the heart. This way of composing worked well with early movies like gone with the wind, and was carried on by mr williams and others in the 1970's.Perhaps i should write a tutorial since hardly anyone on the board knows the difference and insults JW constantl by calling his music "classical" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SturgisPodmore 0 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 So what, so did einstein, what's your point. yes indeed, but it's also coming from the youngest film composer in hollywood. I understand the subject as i have found it.I was kidding, of course. But I don't believe there's anyone here who thinks John Williams writes classical music.~Sturgis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Well, he does write classical music. But I know what you mean. Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme 0 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 His pieces are considered as Classical, its just that there are certain snobs out there who arent willing to accept it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scissorhands 16 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Hehe, Classical, I hate that term which leads to wrong conceptions. Williams' music has very little that can be defined as Classical. In my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme 0 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Its hard to categorise him I guess, but very often on Classic FM his pieces will appear and I'll be surprised. Some do consider him as a classical composer, and I have no problem with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I was just referring to the several classical pieces (mostly concertos I think) he's written.Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWfangirl1992 18 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I had the worst one I went into a chatroom a while ago and i asked "Has anyone ever heard of John Williams?" and one girl said Oh isn't he that famous priest at my church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Composer_Fan 2 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 ^No, she was thinking of that guitarist's weekend job.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Classical music was written without a lot of emotion. A film score without emotion does not complement a film in any way.You're kidding aren't you? Classical without emotion? Oh yes, I'm sure Beethoven was in neutral mood when he wrote the 5th. Or any of his piano sonatas. That is not only a gross generalisation, but it's plain silly to say it!Film scores, in particular John Williams's are neo-romantic, which means they are written in a style commonly found between 1800-1910. This was the golden age of music with composers like tchaikovsky and rachmaninov (or rachmaninoff) composing from the heart. This way of composing worked well with early movies like gone with the wind, and was carried on by mr williams and others in the 1970's.No-ones arguing that, but for argument's sake "classical" in this discussion is not exclusively the period from the mid 1700s - 1800s. We're including the Classical, Romantic and 20th Century music (and Baroque if you're pedantic). Incidentally, how do you know composers prior to the Romantic era composed without heart? Flat performances? A piece of every composer goes into their works, no matter how subtle or obvious, good music or not.Perhaps i should write a tutorial since hardly anyone on the board knows the difference and insults JW constantl by calling his music "classical"Or perhaps you should read the tutorial "How to Not Sound Patronising On the Internet". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I just realized... The threads are bleeding together! Stop it before it's too late! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Vincent 8 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 When I was a child, my brother and me thought Superman and Star Wars were the same scores :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Well i just hope John Williams is someday in the composers' timeline as Leonard Bernstein is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmilne 0 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 it's a petty argument really, i just don't like it when the uneducated masses add the 20th centuary Atonal style to their general definition of "classical" music. Johnny will be in the hall of fame, but only after he dies, i don't want that to be anytime too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Well i just hope John Williams is someday in the composers' timeline as Leonard Bernstein is.I think Bernstein is thought of more as a conductor then a composer, as far as popularity. Or maybe that's just me. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Really?i read he was the one that suggested Williams to compose no film related concerti and pieces... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robthehand 3 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 10 most HORRIBLE things DUMMIES say 'bout film music...John who?No, seriously, someone said that to me once. :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmilne 0 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 2 other things i find most annoying is 1) a lot of these ignorrants (reffering to those who say horrible things about film music) don't realise that the majority of pop/rock music is innappropriate for films as the tracks are often too fast paced and interfering (ie they draw focus to them instead of the movie)2) If there wasn't orchestral music in film, or any music in the film the only emotion you'd feel, regardless of what's going on is extreeme boredom. It would be effectively the same as watching silent moviesSeriously try watching a tear jerking disney/other movie without the music (easier with surround sound dvds and players as the music is usually routed to one speaker) i guarantee that no matter how much you try, you won't cry! not one tear will be shed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 10 most HORRIBLE things DUMMIES say 'bout film music...John who?No, seriously, someone said that to me once. :roll: I don't find that so horrible. That is a very understandable response. But I once had someone ask me "Bronsilau who?". True story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Really?i read he was the one that suggested Williams to compose no film related concerti and pieces...You might be thinking of Andre Previn, but I'm not sure. I think Previn was the one that encouraged him to compose his Symphony and original Violin Concerto. He also conducted a lot of his work.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maraquesh 0 Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 10 most HORRIBLE things DUMMIES say 'bout film music...John who?No, seriously, someone said that to me once. :roll: I don't find that so horrible. That is a very understandable response. But I once had someone ask me "Bronsilau who?". True story.Bronsilau who..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robthehand 3 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 That is a very understandable response.Really? We were talking about Star Wars music. We didn't get very far though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 10 most HORRIBLE things DUMMIES say 'bout film music...John who?No, seriously, someone said that to me once. :roll: I don't find that so horrible. That is a very understandable response. But I once had someone ask me "Bronsilau who?". True story.Bronsilau who..?? Bronislau Kaper. Golden Age film composer, probably best known for his epic 1962 score to Mutiny on The Bounty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 If there wasn't orchestral music in film, or any music in the film the only emotion you'd feel, regardless of what's going on is extreeme boredom. It would be effectively the same as watching silent moviesIf done well, library music can be very effective. Tarantino, for example, is a master in finding great tracks and shooting to them. Scorsese too.And silent movies were often accompanied by a live piano score, or sometimes even a small orchestra.easier with surround sound dvds and players as the music is usually routed to one speakerWhat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 This is an actual conversation I had with a friend who is on the fringes of the film score fan community.Me: Oh, you bought a new CD. What is it?Her: The Van Helsing soundtrack. I saw the movie last night and loved the music.Me: Oh, that's Alan Silvestri. He's the guy who wrote the music for Back to the Future and Forrest Gump.Her: Really? I'm a little surprised that I liked the music then. I didn't like the music for those movies at all. I don't think the music went well with the movie.Me: Anthony, "The Asteroid Field" - John Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robthehand 3 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Tarantino, for example, is a master in finding great tracks and shooting to them.Didn't he listen to fifty hours of music (or so I heard) before he found the right music for Bill's death in Kill Bill 2? :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 That, if anything, underlines the fact that he is the master at it. It may take 50 hours, but he'll find the perfect piece of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_burke 0 Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 Amazon.com review of John Debney's 'ELF' score:"Don't buy this one by mistake, why they even released this one...i don't know. It is a bilious condition that causes all hollywood movie scores to sound so blandly offensive, some more watered down classical tripe, from the john williams school of psuedo classical music, oh well, you still have Zooey to help keep you warm, buy the other one. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 While I completely agree that the Amazon.com guy is an a$$hole, I find it amazing that (apparently quite generous) scores like Elf are released, and yet something like Silvestri's Polar Express gets 2 measly tracks on a song CD. Yes, I have the promo, but it still doesn't have everything, and I saw the movie recently and the score definitely needs a commercial release. (Hey, if they're releasing 4 albums for Narnia, there's something wrong here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robthehand 3 Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 That, if anything, underlines the fact that he is the master at it. It may take 50 hours, but he'll find the perfect piece of music.I'm not denying that he's a master at it - more emphasising his... err... devotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robthehand 3 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Bump! I felt the need to revive this thread to point out this one (from JW's page on IMDb):"John Williams or Hans Zimmer? Just wondering, who do you think is better?"and the first reply that wasn't deleted by an administrator:"I feel almost wrong saying this because Williams has done so many Spielberg classics... but it's Hans Zimmer. Look at the incredible variety of themes he does - from Gladiator, a masterpiece, to Matchstick Men, a fun, jazzy style, then Pirates - a theme that moviegoers (however musically inclined they may be) will never forget. These scores are not only more diverse, but more complex as well." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Bump! I felt the need to revive this thread to point out this one (from JW's page on IMDb):"John Williams or Hans Zimmer? Just wondering, who do you think is better?"and the first reply that wasn't deleted by an administrator:"I feel almost wrong saying this because Williams has done so many Spielberg classics... but it's Hans Zimmer. Look at the incredible variety of themes he does - from Gladiator, a masterpiece, to Matchstick Men, a fun, jazzy style, then Pirates - a theme that moviegoers (however musically inclined they may be) will never forget. These scores are not only more diverse, but more complex as well." Yup. Zimmer has much more complex orchestrations. So thick in fact that nothing but huge blanket of instrumental jumble, synths and bass come out of my stereo system 8O Williams is just a paltry amateur compared to Zimmer And Williams has not written any memorable themes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Pirates - a theme that moviegoers (however musically inclined they may be) will never forget. ........................................I think I'm beginning to remember it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I can't separate the Pirates of the Carribean theme from all the other MV power anthems They all have started to sound the same to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robthehand 3 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I can remember exactly how the Pirates theme goes, for the same reason taht I can remember exactly what it was that I ate when I got sea-sick a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Bump! I felt the need to revive this thread to point out this one (from JW's page on IMDb):"John Williams or Hans Zimmer? Just wondering, who do you think is better?"and the first reply that wasn't deleted by an administrator:"I feel almost wrong saying this because Williams has done so many Spielberg classics... but it's Hans Zimmer. Look at the incredible variety of themes he does - from Gladiator, a masterpiece, to Matchstick Men, a fun, jazzy style, then Pirates - a theme that moviegoers (however musically inclined they may be) will never forget. These scores are not only more diverse, but more complex as well." LOL Surely they must have ment Williams has more diverse and more complex stuff. 8O I swear some people are just tone deaf or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Composer_Fan 2 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I just watched Gladiator last night, and all my "friends" reaved to me about how "good" the score was.... I wasn't that impressed...And while Pirates does have some good themes, it has no impressive orchestration to back it up.~Tyler, listening to remedial Williams scores to cure his ears.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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