Star Wars Prequel Music Resource (part 2)

[King Mark 3,631]

So I guess this confirms the alternate Finale

[Datameister 2,097]

Yep, 7M3 Insert would have to be the Imperial March heard in the film and on the OST.

And Ro Sajooc, keep in mind that that run time would actually be longer if we had the recording sessions (or a truly complete release), since that number doesn't take into account the silence at the beginning and end of your typical audio file.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well were very far from having the complete score as it is no

the score is more like 127 minutes if you remove the various version of the End Credits

what's 6M3 and 6M4 untitled cues? It would make the Arena cue way longer than what we have

[Giftheck 921]

Wow, we have a cue list for AOTC I'm not worthy

I thought Zam the Assassin was three parts... but four parts? I assume "Zam is Eliminated" would start with the Separatist Theme we hear at the beginning of the BF2 file.

And the Love Pledge and the Arena is also three parts (I'd love to hear clean endings and openings for those three parts). There's a lot of inserts too. I would willingly wager some of these inserts are probably the drums used frequently throughout the film (not the score) IE over the opening of Yoda Strikes Back. Although I wonder what 6M5's insert is (I think it may be some of the material used in the film to lengthen the bit where Obi-Wan asks Anakin what Padme would do in his position).

Seems that the Captured Segment is an insert after all, and it's not even titled.

The Senate Scene... that's a curious one. It suggests that BF2 actually had it RIGHT in the placement of the cue straight after the Conveyor belt insert material. The Sep theme is obviously tracked in the film though, so the last note was meant to go straight into Love Pledge.

It's also curious that the Confrontation cue is actually all one cue.

[Jonesy 55]

And Ro Sajooc, keep in mind that that run time would actually be longer if we had the recording sessions (or a truly complete release), since that number doesn't take into account the silence at the beginning and end of your typical audio file.

You are right, 150 minutes is too. I forgot remove the End Credits.

[Datameister 2,097]

There's a lot of inserts too. I would willingly wager some of these inserts are probably the drums used frequently throughout the film (not the score) IE over the opening of Yoda Strikes Back.

I doubt that - when it's just an overlay, Williams will typically title it as such. I'm guessing most of these are genuine alternate passages, most of which were probably used it the final cut of the film. The additional percussion stuff is most likely a combination of optional parts that were recorded separately and pre-recorded stuff that they just plopped into the recording.

[Henry B 50]

what's 6M3 and 6M4 untitled cues? It would make the Arena cue way longer than what we have

Yes, it would. However, notice that 6M3 and 6M4 were never recorded. The same goes for other reel numbers that had tracked music in the film. So maybe these are simply notes for places in which TPM music would be tracked. However... there is information on the instrumentation and the orchestration (by "HH").

So did Williams write a complete score to AotC only to have large sections of it discarded? Let the conspiracy theories begin.

3M1 Insert - maybe this is the fanfare we hear as Obi-Wan's ship drops out of hyperspace.

6M5 Insert - I bet this is from the extended version of "Love Pledge and the Arena" we first heard in Galactic Battlegrounds, specifically from 6:55-7:15. There is further added music from 7:29-7:58, but based on the timing this seems to have always been a part of "Padme Falls" that was just cut for the OST.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

What does "Gelb" mean?

[Datameister 2,097]

I've been wondering about this "HH" fellow. I can't think of any orchestrators with those initials. Not that I know the name of every orchestrator in the business or anything, but Williams used Conrad Pope (CP) and Eddie Karam (EK) for the VAST majority of his work in the 2000s. Maybe HH isn't a person, but a code...

In any case, those untitled cues are definitely puzzling.

[Henry B 50]

I'm comparing "Finale" (5:23) to "Confrontation with Count Dooku and Finale" (4:43 when the end credits start). The statement of the Emperor's theme cut from the OST adds about 25 seconds, but that still leaves around 15 unaccounted for. Any ideas? I remember there was this weird chromatic string figure when Dooku's ship opened its... solar sail, or whatever. Other parts of the finale were replaced with tracked music from "Carrying Mother Home."

[Giftheck 921]

6M5 Insert - I bet this is from the extended version of "Love Pledge and the Arena" we first heard in Galactic Battlegrounds, specifically from 6:55-7:15. There is further added music from 7:29-7:58, but based on the timing this seems to have always been a part of "Padme Falls" that was just cut for the OST.

Eh? CDPart02 in the rip I have is only 7:20 long though. I can't actually hear anything in the 6M2 section that wasn't in the album. The 6M5 section has a lot of stuff that got cut from the album, including what appears to be another note before the timpani/brass note we hear in BF2. Interesting to note is when it goes into the Force Theme (at about 6:33) there is a note underlaying the Force Theme's introduction that is much more muted in the album, suggesting that there is definitely cut material there, or that maybe that whole force-theme is the insert?

4M4 - I'm assuming this was supposed to end after the Duel of the Fates bit.

5M1B - Anakin Changes - There is something missing here before the Imperial March motif kicks in, I'm sure of it. It's not the Sidious Theme because I know that got tracked in from the Finale (the starting note provided from 1M3 Thwarted Attempt).

I'm curious as to whether they ever recorded 1M1 Main Title or whether they decided not to bother in the end and just track it in from TPM.

[Henry B 50]

6M5 Insert - I bet this is from the extended version of "Love Pledge and the Arena" we first heard in Galactic Battlegrounds, specifically from 6:55-7:15. There is further added music from 7:29-7:58, but based on the timing this seems to have always been a part of "Padme Falls" that was just cut for the OST.

Eh? CDPart02 in the rip I have is only 7:20 long though. I can't actually hear anything in the 6M3 section that wasn't in the album. The 6M4 section has a lot of stuff that got cut from the album, including what appears to be another note before the timpani/brass note we hear in BF2. Interesting to note is when it goes into the Force Theme (at about 6:33) there is a note underlaying the Force Theme's introduction that is much more muted in the album, suggesting that there is definitely cut material there, or that maybe that whole force-theme is the insert?

Oh... yeah, my timings are off because I combined it with "Love Pledge" a while ago. But I think you know what I'm talking about. Also, the cues in question must be 6M2 and 6M5, not 6M3 and 6M4. At around 20 seconds, it's possible that the Force theme bit is in fact 6M5 insert. But I don't really hear anything to suggest it was spliced in.

[Giftheck 921]

Whoops, corrected

Listen carefully to the Battlegrounds file's first note then at the same note in the OST. You can hear a second note clearly crossfaded in the Galactic Battlegrounds file, but not so much in the OST version.

I think the 6M2 Insert is probably the closing notes of the Arena suite.

[Jonesy 55]

I'm curious as to whether they ever recorded 1M1 Main Title or whether they decided not to bother in the end and just track it in from TPM.

I think 1M1 Main Title was reused from TPM, the date recording not appears.

[Trent B 337]

Thanks for the cue list Phoenix! Time to get busy on reworking my Attack Of The Clones edit.

[Henry B 50]

Whoops, corrected

Listen carefully to the Battlegrounds file's first note then at the same note in the OST. You can hear a second note clearly crossfaded in the Galactic Battlegrounds file, but not so much in the OST version.

Ah. You're right. The edit is clearly different between the two versions, making it almost certain there is an insert there. It doesn't seem to make much musical sense to remove the Force theme, but maybe that's just the roughness of the cut I mocked up.

[Trent B 337]

I noticed when doing my edit for AOTC the first time that the music for "Padmé Falls" when the force theme kicks in on the OST was edited. In the film there was a bit of "Conveyor Belt" overlapped it but the OST was definitely edited.

[fommes 154]

Excellent, Phoenix, many thanks!

You wouldn't have any other Williams cue sheets, would you?

[Henry B 50]

Actually, Trent just alerted me to the film version of "Padme Falls." It seems that there are a couple short bars edited out of the Force theme section, which would explain the artificial transition. Maybe my original theory was correct that the beginning 20 seconds of the cue - not included on the OST - comprise the insert.

[Giftheck 921]

Actually, Trent just alerted me to the film version of "Padme Falls." It seems that there are a couple short bars edited out of the Force theme section, which would explain the artificial transition. Maybe my original theory was correct that the beginning 20 seconds of the cue - not included on the OST - comprise the insert.

I don't think it's actually a note from the Conveyor Belt as such. I think it's the 5M6 Insert (It's only three seconds long so I can't see what else it is - it certainly isn't from the actual Conveyor Belt). I also think that it completely covers the note I said about. In the film, it goes from there into the strings before the Force theme kicks in, so maybe you're right. I just don't see the point of overlapping that small bit over the top of the note like they did.

Speaking of which, the "Captured" segment would appear to be part of the Conveyor Belt cue itself.

Why were there seemingly four takes for the End Credits? It's obvious not all four were done - probably just the Across the Stars suite (EC "Updated Gelb Version") and then the ending may have been recorded separately. The actual End Credits part clearly comes in tracked from The Phantom Menace (as the same take is used in the TPM film)

[Faleel 5,453]

Why were there seemingly four takes for the End Credits? It's obvious not all four were done - probably just the Across the Stars suite (EC "Updated Gelb Version") and then the ending may have been recorded separately. The actual End Credits part clearly comes in tracked from The Phantom Menace (as the same take is used in the TPM film)

the transition between the end credits and the Love Theme is different from TPM's end credits

[Datameister 2,097]

It could have been edited that way. In fact, I think I compared the waveforms a while back and found that they did indeed just loop that last bit and then fade into the actual AOTC credits cue. (As I recall, they did NOT loop it in the film version.)

[PHOENIX 34]

Excellent, Phoenix, many thanks!

You wouldn't have any other Williams cue sheets, would you?

Yes,

Here is Star Wars III- Revenge of the Sith

It is in session order ( not cue order )

(it wouldn't let me add another pdf to the site, so here is a link)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ghv5i1

[King Mark 3,631]

I am the Senate is 6.40

missing a lot of that one then and it probably sounds very different than the edits were trying to make

[Datameister 2,097]

Yep, the full version of the cue would have played all the way through to the shot of Yoda having a coronary on Kashyyyk. Lots of missing music, though a lot of it is in the various games.

[King Mark 3,631]

Other than that there's 2M1???

And Palpatine's Big Pitch seems longer than in the film

[Datameister 2,097]

2M1 is just the OST track "Grievous and the Droids", and "Palpatine's Big Pitch" is complete in the film.

[King Mark 3,631]

ah ok

so basically "unheard" music is in I am the Senate. The rest of the score seems more or less what's heard in the film

[Datameister 2,097]

Let's see...I think there's material that's completely unavailable in:

* Get 'Em, R2!

* The Elevator Scene

* Grievous Travels to Palpatine

* Goodbye, Old Friend

* Good Guys Arrive

* I Am the Senate

* Palpatine Instructs Anakin

* the entire original version of "Yoda to Exile", though that was ostensibly never recorded

* Revenge of the Sith (DVD Version) - the intro was originally different, but that might not have been recorded, either

Some of these are just so-called microedits, though.

EDIT: Hey, here's some evidence for the untitled cues being tracked. 3M9 lists "JN" as the orchestrator, and the only Williams orchestrator with those initials that I can think of is John Neufeld, who ostensibly did not work on AOTC. But he definitely worked on TPM...

Still no idea who HH is, though.

[Trent B 337]

While working on my edit, I think the times maybe slightly off, at least for the time length of "Obi-Wan Eavesdropping". I think "The Arrival At Tatooine" would be from 0:00-4:06 from track 10 on the OST. Then "Obi-Wan Eavesdropping" would start on the 4:06 mark. It makes more sense for that to start like that since it does in the film, all though in the film it was edited down a bit.

[Datameister 2,097]

That's interesting that the two listed time lengths don't add up to the full length of the OST track...huh...

[Jim Ware 526]

Wow, we have a cue list for AOTC I'm not worthy

I thought Zam the Assassin was three parts... but four parts? I assume "Zam is Eliminated" would start with the Separatist Theme we hear at the beginning of the BF2 file.

2M1 starts at 7:27 in track 3 of the OST.

I also don't think HH is a person, more an indication that a cue is assembled editorially or is to be tracked; usage is restricted to cues that weren't recorded for the most part, with the exception of 'EC - Updated Gelb Version' (or track 2 on the OST as it's more commonly known).

The album breakdown looks like this - not very heavily edited at all:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AnDGlAtk8GZ2dE1fYkdqZ3B6WW9DV3J0LUU0TjFINXc&hl=en&authkey=CNObquMJ

[Jilal 569]

Is there a complete cue list for AOTC?

Here you are-

Thanks alot!

Wow, we have a cue list for AOTC I'm not worthy

I thought Zam the Assassin was three parts... but four parts? I assume "Zam is Eliminated" would start with the Separatist Theme we hear at the beginning of the BF2 file.

And the Love Pledge and the Arena is also three parts (I'd love to hear clean endings and openings for those three parts). There's a lot of inserts too. I would willingly wager some of these inserts are probably the drums used frequently throughout the film (not the score) IE over the opening of Yoda Strikes Back. Although I wonder what 6M5's insert is (I think it may be some of the material used in the film to lengthen the bit where Obi-Wan asks Anakin what Padme would do in his position).

Seems that the Captured Segment is an insert after all, and it's not even titled.

The Senate Scene... that's a curious one. It suggests that BF2 actually had it RIGHT in the placement of the cue straight after the Conveyor belt insert material. The Sep theme is obviously tracked in the film though, so the last note was meant to go straight into Love Pledge.

It's also curious that the Confrontation cue is actually all one cue.

I think the 6m5 insert is the music after "6m5 Padme Falls" and before "7m1 Dooku Versus Obi-Wan".

[fommes 154]

Thanks very much, Phoenix!

[TownerFan 4,991]

What does "Gelb" mean?

I guess it's a reference to Peter Gelb, who was head of Sony Classical back then. I guess Williams indicated "Gelb" because it's likely Sony requested a specific version to be released as a single.

[Jim Ware 526]

What does "Gelb" mean?

I guess it's a reference to Peter Gelb, who was head of Sony Classical back then. I guess Williams indicated "Gelb" because it's likely Sony requested a specific version to be released as a single.

You beat me to it!

[TownerFan 4,991]

[Giftheck 921]

Why were there seemingly four takes for the End Credits? It's obvious not all four were done - probably just the Across the Stars suite (EC "Updated Gelb Version") and then the ending may have been recorded separately. The actual End Credits part clearly comes in tracked from The Phantom Menace (as the same take is used in the TPM film)

the transition between the end credits and the Love Theme is different from TPM's end credits

I've checked into this - the transition is a loop and then the ending of Zam's Dirty Tricks tacked on with a pitch-change, before it goes straight into the Album Across the Stars material, which is then edited with a different ending.

It's frustrating that we don't have clean openings or endings for 1M7A though (Zam Chase Pt. 1). I know where it ends in the album (on the note at roughly 4:20 on the album version). Thankfully, we have the clean opening and ending for the next cue, 1M7B - Zam in Pursuit (Noth in the same file in TFU2)

I know I got a few things wrong on my first analysis... and I am starting to think that the 6M5 Insert is indeed the 'opening' of the cue and not the Force Theme.

EDIT: Wow, we seem to be missing a lot of Yoda Falls from Revenge of the Sith. Also, it does seem as though they may have recorded a little more for the "Choir Only" piece.

[Jim Ware 526]

I think the 6m5 insert is the music after "6m5 Padme Falls" and before "7m1 Dooku Versus Obi-Wan".

There isn't any room in reel six for that to happen - the last note of 6M5 overlaps the reel change. This score seems to have music running over *all* the reel changes; I wonder if this was an explicit instruction from Lucas given the digital nature of the picture? The Phantom Menace is very different in this regard, with music clearly stopping and starting at the end of each reel and the beginning of the next.

Incidentally, 'HH' stands for Hot House Music, whose services appear to have been used for music preparation. The Revenge of the Sith cue sheet has similar designations (jkms - Jo Ann Kane Music Service) for cues assembled from pre-existing material.

[Trent B 337]

EDIT: Wow, we seem to be missing a lot of Yoda Falls from Revenge of the Sith. Also, it does seem as though they may have recorded a little more for the "Choir Only" piece.

This is why I think a lot of Phoenix's times maybe off. The Galaxies file mus_rodian_quest_fail that has "Yoda Falls" doesn't sounds like it's edited at all.

[Jim Ware 526]

EDIT: Wow, we seem to be missing a lot of Yoda Falls from Revenge of the Sith. Also, it does seem as though they may have recorded a little more for the "Choir Only" piece.

This is why I think a lot of Phoenix's times maybe off. The Galaxies file mus_rodian_quest_fail that has "Yoda Falls" doesn't sounds like it's edited at all.

Times are estimated (prior to recording) based on tempo and number of bars.

[Datameister 2,097]

I'll repeat what I told you, Trent, for everyone else's benefit - "Yoda Falls" is definitely complete. My guess is that they meant to write 15, not 50, since they do sound similar. It does say 8 bars, which is consistent with what we've heard.

[Jim Ware 526]

It's frustrating that we don't have clean openings or endings for 1M7A though (Zam Chase Pt. 1). I know where it ends in the album (on the note at roughly 4:20 on the album version).

You appear to be right. 1M7B includes percussion that appears nowhere else, so has to start at 4:20.

So OST track 3 is...

1M6 - 0:00-1:29 (edited - a significant chunk is snipped out)

1M7A - 1:29-4:20 (minor edits somewhere)

1M7B - 4:20-7:28ish (unedited, although there's a dodgy transition between takes here and the end overlays the start of 2M1)

2M1 - 7:28-11:07

Also, if anyone feels like re-watching the AOTC 'music' featurette, it shows the recording of 1M7B and the 'New End Credits' on 23/1/2002.

For those paying attention, the following cues were recorded on that day:

End Credits (updated Gelb version)

1M7B Zam in Pursuit

4M1 The Jango Fett Fight

3M1 insert (revised ending for 'Finding Kamino')

I suspect that Williams spent most of his session time refining the performance of the 'End Credits', particularly if it was to be released as a single. His obsessive attention to detail knows no bounds!

[Giftheck 921]

It's frustrating that we don't have clean openings or endings for 1M7A though (Zam Chase Pt. 1). I know where it ends in the album (on the note at roughly 4:20 on the album version).

You appear to be right. 1M7B includes percussion that appears nowhere else, so has to start at 4:20.

So OST track 3 is...

1M6 - 0:00-1:29 (edited - a significant chunk is snipped out)

1M7A - 1:29-4:20 (minor edits somewhere)

1M7B - 4:20-7:28ish (unedited, although there's a dodgy transition between takes here and the end overlays the start of 2M1)

2M1 - 7:28-11:07

2M1 is also edited, with the Separatist Theme removed.

I think maybe the editing was possibly rushed a bit for some takes.

This naturally has me curious - which is the correct transition for the material for the space on the album starting at 7:52 and ending at 8:00.

[Luke Skywalker 1,813]

interesting info

[Trent B 337]

It's frustrating that we don't have clean openings or endings for 1M7A though (Zam Chase Pt. 1). I know where it ends in the album (on the note at roughly 4:20 on the album version).

You appear to be right. 1M7B includes percussion that appears nowhere else, so has to start at 4:20.

So OST track 3 is...

1M6 - 0:00-1:29 (edited - a significant chunk is snipped out)

1M7A - 1:29-4:20 (minor edits somewhere)

1M7B - 4:20-7:28ish (unedited, although there's a dodgy transition between takes here and the end overlays the start of 2M1)

2M1 - 7:28-11:07

Also, if anyone feels like re-watching the AOTC 'music' featurette, it shows the recording of 1M7B and the 'New End Credits' on 23/1/2002.

For those paying attention, the following cues were recorded on that day:

End Credits (updated Gelb version)

1M7B Zam in Pursuit

4M1 The Jango Fett Fight

3M1 insert (revised ending for 'Finding Kamino')

I suspect that Williams spent most of his session time refining the performance of the 'End Credits', particularly if it was to be released as a single. His obsessive attention to detail knows no bounds!

Actually 1M6 would end at 1:02 on track 3 from the OST. You can hear the clean ending in the "End Credits" before it heads into "Across The Stars" material as ggtuck stated before. Also if you listen to the rear channels from right when Dooku strikes Obi-Wan down, you can hear the clean opening for 1M7A. I think the percussion was recorded separately for AOTC since the percussion in that piece is missing when it was tracked in during the duel.

The rest of 1M6 we have virtually clean (except for a couple of notes that you'd need the DVD for) thanks to Bounty Hunter, Battlefront 2 and TFU 1 and 2.

[Jim Ware 526]

Actually 1M6 would end at 1:02 on track 3 from the OST. You can hear the clean ending in the "End Credits" before it heads into "Across The Stars" material as ggtuck stated before.

I'm not sure which 'End Credits' you're listening to, but mine doesn't have any 'Zam' material!

[Giftheck 921]

He's talking about the single timp/cymbal that bridges the TPM End Credits to Across the Stars, at 5:33 on Track 13. It's just pitched down.

[Jim Ware 526]

I suspect that you may be overanalysing this.

Is there a logical (and musical) reason for a transition between cues at that point in the film?

Has someone definitively proved that the 'End Credits' opening is tracked from TPM? I remain unconvinced!

[Giftheck 921]

I suspect that you may be overanalysing this.

Is there a logical (and musical) reason for a transition between cues at that point in the film?

Has someone definitively proved that the 'End Credits' opening is tracked from TPM? I remain unconvinced!

Yes, I have proved it. The same take is used in both The Phantom Menace (The film version, and not the UE version), and again in Attack of the Clones movie. The only difference is the loop at 5:31.5, and the note leading off to Across the Stars. Look at the waveform from the bit a few seconds earlier - they are identical.