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FilmManiac79

Watchmojo Top 10 Movie Score Composers

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A few months ago, the YouTube channel Watchmojo posted their Top Ten Composers list.

Thoughts? I'm down with #1 (as I assume most here would be)...but the rest of the list bugs me. What do you think they got wrong?

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List:

01. John Williams

02. Danny Elfman

03. Bernard Herrmann

04. Hans Zimmer

05. Alan Silvestri

06. Howard Shore

07. James Horner

08. James Newton Howard

09. Jerry Goldsmith

10. Ennio Morricone

Honorable Mentions: Thomas Newman, Rachel Portman, Clint Mansell, Elmer Bernstein, Alexandre Desplat, Michael Giacchino.

It's okay. Pretty much the same people that are always mentioned on these things.

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The clip of Ennio Morricone they play from Days Of Heaven is actually "Aquarium" by Saint-Saëns. How embarrassing.

But now I want the limited edition Mulan soundtrack with Jerry Goldsmith's score and alternate cues.

And what's this? They called Horner's score for Titanic "the best-selling orchestra film soundtrack ever"? ROTFLMAO

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And what's this? They called Horner's score for Titanic "the best-selling orchestra film soundtrack ever"? ROTFLMAO

It is.

So I was wrong about that. I admit it. But sales records is not an indication of how good a soundtrack is.

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North sadly rarely ever gets the credit he deserves on these lists.

Because those list videos are strictly popularity contests based on the whims of those producing it, not at all reflective of the artistic merit of each film composer and their body of work.

How would you have written the list ceteris paribus?

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And what's this? They called Horner's score for Titanic "the best-selling orchestra film soundtrack ever"? ROTFLMAO

It is.

So I was wrong about that. I admit it. But sales records is not an indication of how good a soundtrack is.

I'm sure a good chunk of the people who bought it, got it solely for that damn Celine Dion song...

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Titanic is a masterpiece. And sold so much more copies then any other score that its not even funny!

One of the best soundtracks of the 90's. Which is a decade which is hard to beat!

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Thankfully only in sales, the lowest common denominator these lists can process. That guys like Morricone and Goldsmith are always appearing as stopgaps on the tail end of these lists just goes on to show that 'genius' can't be measured by BO.

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Considering it's Watchmojo, this is nowhere near as bad as I would've expected. Elfman, Howard, and Silvestri wouldn't make my personal top 10 (I'd put Mansell, Kamen, and either Young or Barry instead), and I'd re-order the ones there, but this isn't really all that bad a list from people I would generally consider clueless about music.

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Whatever list ranks Zimmer higher than Goldsmith (and Silvestri, and Shore, and Horner, and Morricone) doesn't even deserve my attention.

What about honorable mentions to North (!), Newman (Al), Rosenman, Waxman, Steiner, Korngold, ... ? Rózsa??

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With a few exceptions, I'm not too crazy about the so called Golden Age, but the Silver Age absolutely needs more love.

And while I wouldn't agree with a list that included just the following (unordered by me)...

Lalo Schifrin

Elmer Bernstein

Jerry Fielding

Leonard Rosenman

Hugo Friedhofer

David Amram

Frank DeVol

Johnny Mandel

Jerry Goldsmith

Alex North

... I'd support it just for the fact that it would rile up the Gen Xers and Millennials who passively accept the shitty WatchMojo list, and also because it reminds us of a great now-lost tradition of uniquely American composition. When people weren't affraid to push the envelope, and the first and last time the worlds of the concert hall, jazz club and college radio converged.

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With a few exceptions, I'm not too crazy about the so called Golden Age, but the Silver Age absolutely needs more love.

And while I wouldn't agree with a list that included just the following (unordered by me)...

Lalo Schifrin

Elmer Bernstein

Jerry Fielding

Leonard Rosenman

Hugo Friedhofer

David Amram

Frank DeVol

Johnny Mandel

Jerry Goldsmith

Alex North

... I'd support it just for the fact that it would rile up the Gen Xers and Millennials who passively accept the shitty WatchMojo list, and also because it reminds us of a great now-lost tradition of uniquely American composition. When people weren't affraid to push the envelope, and the first and last time the worlds of the concert hall, jazz club and college radio converged.

Who's Frank DeVol?

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I'm pretty sure Goldsmith had absolutely nothing to do with the Mulan songs, not even the arrangements.

You mean like how he had absolutely nothing to do with the score to The Secret of NIHM?

Hey, it was either Goldsmith's sound or the "sappy and now-corny Menken sound":

http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/mulan.html

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He did incorparate them sparingly, i. e. the main title.

According to the webpage I linked:

That material was...badly cut into pieces and placed together to form mini-suites of each type of music for the film, meaning that the music heard in "Attack at the Wall" or "The Huns Attack" will include material not relating to those scenes.

So my guess is it wasn't so much his lack of conviction toward incorporating material, but post-production hackwork that wasn't supposed to happen.

Which is even more sad given that Mulan was his last Oscar nod before he died.

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That's rubbish. Is it off Filmtracks? Of course the material relates to those scenes though it expands them to include a prelude from a scene earlier or the consecutive cue (ATTACK AT THE WALL). Goldsmith even wrote short bridging sections to join two cues in i. e. BLOSSOMS so that there would be only a few 5- to 6 minute cues. And that certainly didn't affect his Oscar chances.

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I never implied that it affected his Oscar chances; I was just going off of what I was reading.

Judging from your reaction, am I correct in assuming that Filmtracks is not a reliable source when it comes to cataloging the production process of film soundtracks?

If so, then what would you recommend as a reliable source? For instance, another source I found compared his action cues in Mulan to his work on the Rambo series.

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Erm...there is no such a place. For Williams there is the main page here that provides extensive information on his scores and albums, you might go to jerrygoldsmithonline.com for JG but your best bet is always searching FSM or JW message boards because only then you will find all the tidbits.

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I only have one shade.

Do ya?

wAyf4FQ.png

He did incorparate them sparingly, i. e. the main title.

According to the webpage I linked:

That material was...badly cut into pieces and placed together to form mini-suites of each type of music for the film, meaning that the music heard in "Attack at the Wall" or "The Huns Attack" will include material not relating to those scenes.

So my guess is it wasn't so much his lack of conviction toward incorporating material, but post-production hackwork that wasn't supposed to happen.

Which is even more sad given that Mulan was his last Oscar nod before he died.

You took that sentence out of context. What Clemmensen is saying is just that the tracks on the album are comprised of cues from various scenes in the film, and the titles of the tracks do not reflect that: so basically, for The Huns Attack, you have the music from the scene with the Huns attacking, but also from other scenes in the film. That's all. Nothing to do with "post-production hackwork" or whatever...

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List:

01. John Williams

02. Danny Elfman

03. Bernard Herrmann

04. Hans Zimmer

05. Alan Silvestri

06. Howard Shore

07. James Horner

08. James Newton Howard

09. Jerry Goldsmith

10. Ennio Morricone

Honorable Mentions: Thomas Newman, Rachel Portman, Clint Mansell, Elmer Bernstein, Alexandre Desplat, Michael Giacchino.

It's okay. Pretty much the same people that are always mentioned on these things.

01. John Williams

02. Danny Elfman Maybe top 20

03. Bernard Herrmann I like him but never my fav.

04. Hans Zimmer definitely top 100 somewhere near 100

05. Alan Silvestri EH

06. Howard Shore Double Eh

07. James Horner #3

08. James Newton Howard #5

09. Jerry Goldsmith #2

10. Ennio Morricone #4

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