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Skelly
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Posts posted by Skelly
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42 minutes ago, toothless said:
The music in the trailer is not by Williams. But we never know… It could be some of his ideas taken out of the score then re worked by the trailer house.
I doubt Williams would let some computer monkey composer debut his music, in typical trailer fashion, before he himself could introduce the piece properly.
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Here's my go at Logan (Beltrami):
1) Main Title
14) Driving to Mexico [Logan tries to bargain for his boat while driving home]
4) Old Man Logan [Charles berates Logan; Logan forces his busted claw out and falls asleep]
2) Laura [Logan tells Charles that he'll be going away for a few days; he visits Gabriella and finds her body]
6) That's Not A Choo-choo
3) The Grim Reavers [one Reaver approaches Laura with handcuffs]
13) Feral Tween
8) El Limo-Nator
9) Gabriella's Video [Logan finishes the nurse's video; Laura wakes up and is mesmerized by the neon lights]
5) Alternate Route to Mexico [only the first few measures; captured Caliban watches Rice arrive]
11) Goodnight Moon [Charles confesses his ignorance to 'Logan']
12) Farm Aid [Logan bursts in and finds a clone of himself; he carries Charles's body to the truck]
10) Drive to Burial
16) Up to Eden
17) Beyond the Hills
18) Into the Woods
19) Forest Fight
20) Logan vs. X-24
21) Don't Be What They Made You
I'm not sure where 15) You Can't Break the Mould goes.
I believe these were the tracks recorded as "tests" to pitch to Mangold et al. and don't appear in the film itself, though sections of other cues derive from them:
7) X-2422) Eternum - Laura's Theme
23) Logan's Limo
24) Loco Logan
25) Logan Drives
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35 minutes ago, Sally Spectra said:
I read somewhere the ESB masters were left in a basement and were water damaged. Might have been in a document hosted by this website. Were they able to save them?
No, they were left to rot.
You probably read that in Chris Malone's "Recording the Star Wars Saga" document. It wasn't the ESB masters, but those for the original Star Wars film.
"During preparation of the Special Edition films, sound designer Ben Burtt and his team located all audio recordings for the trilogy in order to source the best versions of dialog, effects and music tracks for a new 5.1 split-surround remix. At this time the original, unedited three-track 35mm magnetic film recordings of Star Wars were located as well as the 16-track master session tapes. Vice- President of postproduction at 20th Century-Fox TV, Ed Nassour, discovered the magnetic film recordings in 1986 by accident. 'They were in the back of an old editing room where a leaky roof had soaked the cases. Fortunately, the contents were still in good shape. I informed [music editor] Len [Engel], and the material was quickly placed in proper storage'."
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4 hours ago, Holko said:
1m3A Vernon Gathers the Family - 00:00-00:53 NM Seems a derivative of Lockhart's Theme
That's not at all what I'm hearing. I think it's the "Nimbus 2000" theme. Whereas usually it's playful and excited, here it's all restrained and uptight and tries its damndest to be "respectable", like the Dursleys themselves. It's like the Dursleys are taking that magical theme and sucking all the fun out of it.
Now, there is the "Dueling Club" cue (4m4) where Lockhart's theme does sort of sound like 1m3A in terms of atmosphere (for lack of a better word) but they're two separate ideas as far as I can tell.
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28 minutes ago, Alex said:
The Peter Pettigrew harpsichord "theme" not being on the POA album also struck me as weird considering its use in the film. I don't think it is even hinted at.
It's hinted at very, very softly in the Knight Bus track, when Harry first learns about who Black is. About 2:10 in on harpsichord. But beyond that it's completely absent. Come to think of it, the harpsichord in general doesn't get much of a spotlight on the soundtrack, does it? I don't feel like it's anywhere near as prominent as it is in the film.
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If we go by Hellgi's words, that was Ross. That little melody has always felt to me like someone trying very hard to imitate Williams's special "sound", but almost too hard. Not that it isn't wonderful, but that's always the impression I've gotten.
7 hours ago, Will said:Yeah, he uses pencil.
Oh, great! Now we're back to square one.
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This is what a John Williams sketch looks like. "1M1 Prologue Rev." for Chamber of Secrets.
Anyone who's taken a look at Williams's sketches knows that he's been sketching this way for decades. Same paper, same thin pen, etc.
This is what I'm pretty sure a William Ross sketch looks like. "8M2A Insert The Chamber Door Opens" for Chamber of Secrets (this is the cue when the bathroom sink opens up and reveals the hidden way).
Look at that. Thicker pen, very different handwriting, obviously a cue that borrows thematic material from the first film (heck, it even segues into tracked music), but it has "John Williams, BMI" written up there. I don't know for certain why Ross did that (though it fits in with Hellgi's assertion that Ross was very adamant about keeping it a Williams score and that he was merely an adapter) but I think we can at least say that Williams didn't personally put pen to paper for too many cues. That was Ross.
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Their performance of 'Dumbledore's Warning' also has a much more apparent celeste than the film.
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3 hours ago, bollemanneke said:
Has this 'different cut story' ever been confirmed? It seems highly unlikely that Williams had to change things on the spot, but that might just be my limited knowledge of film scoring... And there aren't that many alternates either.
No confirmation... all I ever found of it was this forum post, but there's no reason for him to have made up a story like that (either Beggs or the poster).
One clue that this story is at least somewhat accurate is the titling of one cue as "Sir Cadagon", who in the final cut of the picture appears for a split-second; the film originally was going to have a subplot with the knight which was entirely removed.
Note that the cue fits neatly into that scene, no editing required. -
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Alternates/inserts/unused stuff that I know of (for some material, I have no idea if it was actually recorded), both released and unreleased:
- 1M3A That's A Lie: unused in film. Just another suspenseful strings cue.
- 1M5 Parents Portrait: film uses celeste or a similarly gossamer instrument; music sheets call for harpsichord.
- 1M9A Squeeze Play: when the Knight Bus squeezes through the two Muggle buses, the film uses a much less melodious idea than what we hear on the OST.
- 2M3 The Train to Hogwarts: two versions were written, and Cuaron preferred the first. Both have the same basic idea but the second version uses flutes in place of recorders.
- 2M4 The Dementor Appears: two endings exist. OST uses busy orchestral crescendo for when the Dementor is expelled, but the film uses nothing but a simple note from the patronus choir (gotta admit, I prefer it to Williams's original idea).
- 2M6 Dumbledore's Warning: two endings exist. Williams originally wrote for the cue to end with a repeating figure on harpsichord and skittish strings (you can hear it on certain bonus feature menus). The film uses a piece where recorders play 'Double Trouble' with enthusiasm.
- 3MC Befriending the Hippogriff: two endings were written, but I don't know whether either was recorded since I'm pretty sure neither was used in the film (I can't read music).
- 3M10 Remembering Mother: when Lupin and Harry chat on the bridge. The cue was originally written to last 20 measures, but Cuaron ended up using a shorter variant (only 9).
- 3M11 The Portrait Gallery: film uses a dark, sustained note on strings to open the cue. It was an insert not recorded with the rest of the cue.
- 3M11A The Big Doors: 3M11 originally underscored the shot of the doors being bolted, and you can hear that ending on the OST. Like crumbs mentioned above, Cuaron wanted something more primal, and this cue replaced those final few measures.
- 3M12 The Great Hall Ceiling: three versions were written, but all are pretty much the same.
- 4M1 (I think?) Page 394: Replaces first few measures of 4M2 (foreboding harpsichord) with chilling harp glissando, and rising strings segue into the next cue.
- 4M3-4 Enter Winter: a shorter version of the 'time transition' scene where autumn becomes winter that I think went totally unused in the film.
- 4M5 Map to Snow Scene: a short cue but a good chunk of it went unused in the final film. The music editor just loops the same two or three measures.
- 5M2A: Reveal Your Secret: cue that I guess would have been used when Snape is trying to get some info about the Marauder's Map. Unused in film; the harpsichord seems to take center stage.
- 5M5 The Crystal Ball: the entire scene with Hermione storming out of class, then Harry returning the ball, then receiving the prophecy, was all written to be underscored by one long cue. A middle section (to underscore Harry finding the ball on the stairs, about fifteen measures) is dialed out of the film.
- 6M5 Werewolf Scene: tam-tam smash inserted into the film for when we see the moon rising above the clouds. Also, when we zoom into Lupin's eyes, between each timpani hit, there's a kind of scraping noise that resembles frightened panting. Not on the OST. I don't know if it's even music; it might be sound design.
- 6M5 Pt. II: Williams's original idea for the frozen lake scene. Pretty much the same as what we hear in the final film (6M4 AN 'First Frozen Lake') but a lot more expressive with mark trees, stuff like that.
And, er... that's as far as I got with taking a look at the score. Not sure of anything in the 7th reel. Track 14 on the OST has at one point what I can only assume is an alternate idea for the 'Chasing Scabbers' sequence.
- crumbs, Holko and Smeltington
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8 hours ago, mrbellamy said:
Listening to it, it sounds like it was probably just a gong. But they sure went loud with it haha.
I'm talking about the sound that comes right after the harp gliss at :50 (I thought that was the shhhhhhh sound you mentioned
); I think you're talking about the sustained gong that hangs above while Trelawney is speaking to Hermione.
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The cue for the Leaky Cauldron source music (the second one, during Mr. Weasley's Warning) is titled "Shawm". Apparently that's some sort of Egyptian woodwind - whether William actually got one, or a soundalike, I don't know. Since the cue is introduced right as Ron is talking about the family trip to Egpyt, it's probably Williams jumping at the chance to do something a bit unusual and maybe a little bit wry.
7 hours ago, mrbellamy said:...I couldn't quite tell what it actually was...a gong? Rolling cymbal? Some sort of "sssshhhhhHHHHHHH" sound. Anyway, pretty jarring haha but interesting to note.
I don't know if it's supposed to sound like anything in particular; the music sheets call it a "snake-like hiss" synth. Cuaron seems to have enjoyed, in some bits of the film, making the line between music and sound effects blurred, and this is probably one of those instances. In the film's actual sound mix, the synth seems to follow the ball (if it moves to the left, the synth moves over to the left channel).
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55 minutes ago, Selina Kyle said:
Midgets?
Little people. Munchkins. People of limited stature. Whatever you prefer.
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Even though it's only in the film for a few seconds, Cuaron went the extra mile and hired exclusively midgets to play the carolers (to give off the impression that it was a dwarf choir).
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For me, easily the first. You can tell Williams was having just a great time writing it. He never lingers too long on any one idea when he doesn't need to and fills even incidental scenes with great melody and atmosphere. Some people say it's 'overscored' and the mood of some scenes are exaggerated by the bursting underscore, but I love it.
The third is a fun score too, though it's evident that Cuaron reined Williams in a bit. Nevertheless he did a great job at devising off-beat ways to underscore the weirder scenes (the Knight Bus, Trelawney's prophecy, etc.)
As for the other scores, the only one that left me with lasting impression was DH Pt. II. That somber courtyard battle tune was very well-used.
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There are a few other cues for PoA that weren't in that list (which got all its info from the leaked sheets).
Other cues (which can be found listed in the BMI catalog) include:
Aunt Marge's Waltz (1m4?)
Shawm (music for when Ron shows Harry the picture of the Weasleys in Egypt; 2m2?)
Sir Cadogan Again (I think this is material all tracked from 3m13, used right after the first Buckbeak scene)
Page 394 (alternate, film-version opening for the Quidditch match cue?)
Candy Box (source music for the candy shop Harry slips through)
Source (it's called just that; it might be the music coming from the bar which Harry sneaks into)
Opening the Trunk (cue for when Lupin first unleashes the Dementor-Boggart; 4m12?)
Recorder Solo (source cue; when Ron whines about Scabbers being dead, they pass a kid playing a recorder)
Entering the Shrieking Shack (6m1?)
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It wasn't until later that I realized I should have blatted out a Star Wars tune on my trombone, just like those other guys. I felt like such a fool!
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John Williams was really mean to me when I tried to contact him. I went up to his house but didn't want to bother him at a time when he would be busy. So around 2 or 3 in the morning I started knocking on his bedroom window. He seemed very bewildered to see a dedicated fan like me! Before I could give him my list of suggestions for the next Star Wars score he grabbed a couple of batons and started hitting me with them. I still don't know what I did wrong; maybe he thought I was Michael Giacchino.
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The Adventures of Robin Hood - 1938, Erich Wolfgang Korngold
Sourced from the sketches and Ben Winters's "Erich Wolfgang Korngold's The Adventures of Robin Hood: A Film Score Guide".
I couldn't find titles for every cue, and Korngold's handwriting is often borderline chicken scratch. If I don't provide a cue with a title at all, then that means I just couldn't figure it out.
1A Main Title
1B Palace
1C Guy / Robin
1D Meeting [though Winters offers the title "Sortie"]
1E [Banquet?]
1F Robin Outside
2A Robin Entrance
2B Fight
2C
3A The Killed
3B Meeting Robin / Little John
3C Fight With Little John
3D Gay Company
3E The Oath and the Black Arrow
3F The Fish
4A Fight With Friar Tuck
4B A New Companion
4C
5A Flirt
5B Das Treasure
5C Continuation
5D Gold
5E Poor People, [followed by illegible stuff; Winters offers the title "Triste"... I don't know where that came from]
6A The Tournament
6B Robin Hood Appears
6C Preparation to [illegible] Fight
6D [Illegible; Hood?] Starts to Shoot
6E
7A
7B The Trial
7C The Jail
7D The Gallows
8A The [illegible - - Escape? Winters offers 'The Fight']
8B [illegible] Romance
9A Arrest Marian
9B Much
10A
10B
10C Continuation
10D Lion [illegible; Winters offers merely 'Nobile' for some reason]
10E Procession
11A King John
11B The Battle
11C The Duell [sic]
11D Victory
11E Epilogue
11F -
It's a pretty goofy song, but it's not too hard to imagine the Potter movies actually going down that pop path. Think of all the kids' books-turned-movies that actually did have that sort of crap playing during the end credits... fortunately David Heyman was very adamant that the Potter movies definitely shouldn't be like that.
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Apocalypse was so bad that at times I almost thought it was a satire of the superhero genre. It's better enjoyed as a comedy than as an action film.
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The Lego HP games have Williams material, but it's all derived from the OSTs.
THE LAST JEDI Trailer 2 MUSIC discussion
in JOHN WILLIAMS
Posted
The music companies get themselves out there by producing DVDs of their tracks (usually in album format - they'll have their team write twelve tracks, maybe in a particular emotional tone, and give that collection an album title) and sending them to studios. From what I understand, Disney can't "send the trailer", at least the way you probably mean it, to several companies to start out with because it doesn't exist yet; they're still trying to figure out what they want it to be. Footage might not even be available yet - they might only have storyboard and script to use.
But yeah, usually there will be several trailer houses which are trying to all try to get the job and pitch musical ideas based off of whatever directions Disney might give them. There's a difference between a trailer house and a music production company like Twelve Titans though; I don't think Twelve Titans would be involved at all in that early process, it's not until when Disney locks down what they like (and ask Felix Erskine to come aboard since they liked his TFA trailer music) that their music is licensed out, and custom tweaks and whatever can be done. If you're really unlucky you can be all set to have your music in a trailer, but then it goes to focus testing or something, and they decide that audiences will hate the music and they go in a different direction.