Locrius
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Posts posted by Locrius
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On 20/10/2021 at 5:37 AM, bollemanneke said:
I'm still surprised that, for me, nobody seems to be able to rival the Boston Pop's version of Flight to Neverland. Even the LSO version is missing... something.
The issue with that Boston one is the timpani that comes in a bar late at 0:59.
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In this case, perhaps Yo-Yo Ma will appear on DG, courtesy of Sony Classical? Or I suppose JW could appear on Sony Classical, courtesy of DG (if he's got some deal with them).
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7 minutes ago, BB-8 said:
At least, it seems they didn't slap the JP timp flub version on disc (see post by celloman), and I think the Superman-version we hear on Youtube is a different one...?
I thought @celloman was talking about fixing it for Digital Concert Hall? No telling what DG is going to do/use...
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Worth mentioning that Ma recently did an album for DG, with Mutter. So he's no stranger to DG. Does anyone know if Williams has some sort of label contract with DG these days, or do they just so happen to be releasing a lot of his stuff these past few years?
Remember, it didn't even start with JW himself conducting; the first big one in this string of DG recordings was actually LA Phil/Dudamel in 2019. I wonder if DG was already signed on to do "Across the Stars" before that Dudamel recording took place? Or did the Dudamel one sell well, and then they jumped at the opportunity to get Williams himself for an album...?
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So can anyone confirm that the CD is the exact same as the digital release? Did anything get fixed?
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Whoa, you're right... I never realized before that he changes the key in the ANH version at that spot (and so masterfully and quickly!).
EDIT: There's also a slight difference in the trumpet triplets leading up to the Rebel fanfare; in ANH, the last triplet goes down for the second note and then back up, whereas TESB is a continuous upward motion.
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Yep, that's about as perfect as it could get. I didn't even realize before just how well it all works out.
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Good catch! Also note the difference in key, which I just pointed out in my edited comment. So the Slovak recording is especially unique, because it is the original key, but with the trombones. Trombones are never heard playing the theme in that key in any of the films' credits; all the later films that have the trombones doing it, are up a step.
Now that I think about it, it's really interesting how JW chose to do the concert version of the piece, because he both started in the original key as heard in the film, and then shifted up into the key of the other films' credits for continuity (and it just sounds more "right" that way, since every other time we've heard the credits it's been in this other key).
He got the best of both worlds in that arrangement; your ears aren't thrown off by starting in a different key, and they also aren't thrown off by hearing the credits in a weird key you're not used to. Really well-done.
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16 minutes ago, Jay said:
Didn't the ROTJ ending replace the original ending in signature edition and anything lent to orchestras ever since 1983?
See hereCould be. I guess the orchestration of the beginning of the credits was changed too for pretty much all published editions? Seems like just about every recording I hear of the piece features the trombone version of the main theme (that was first heard in the TESB credits, as well as every subsequent SW film).
6 minutes ago, Matt S. said:Interesting! I wasn't aware of the differences in orchestration, I just knew it didn't use the extended Throne Room.
Yep! ANH is the only SW film to feature the horns playing the main theme at the start of the credits. Once you notice it, it really sticks out every time you listen to the OST.
Listen at 1:45:
Compare with 1:56:
EDIT: Whoa, they're also in different keys! The extended version is used to get us into the same key as all the other films' credits.
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8 hours ago, MaxTheHouseelf said:
Another thing I disagree with the reviewer who doubts that children find their way to classical music through Williams music. Because for me, Williams music is the reason I started listening, discovering and appreciating more and more of classical music.
Same here!
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1 hour ago, Tom said:
I believe this is the first Williams's recorded version of the extended Throne Room:
Good example of how the trumpet is supposed to sound, at 4:22, compared to what you hear in Berlin (for 2 of the 3 days, anyway).
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Aw man. I've rewatched the Friday video several times and figured out what happened. Since there's a big slow-down in the bar before the credits, Williams subdivides the last beat of the measure (beat 4) as two eighth-notes. For reference, a normal conducting pattern in a 4-beat measure is down (1), in (2), out (3), up (4).
However, since Williams wants to split beat 4 into two eighth notes, he actually beats beat 4 down (and kind of low), and then for the upbeat of beat 4 (so, the eighth-note before the credits, aka the second half of beat 4), he beats up. Everyone else seems to catch what Williams is doing. But if the trumpet player for some reason isn't able to see Williams kind of gently beating beat 4 down low, then when he sees Williams beat upwards he thinks "Oh, that's beat 4" and plays his pickup note after that.
...When actually, Williams' upstroke is the "and" of beat 4, the second half of the beat. That's why the trumpet player's note is so short; he thinks Williams' upstroke is the entire beat 4 (rather than the latter half of beat 4 which it actually is), so he plays his eighth-note pickup to the credits twice as short as it should be. He can plainly tell where Williams is about to put his downbeat for the start of the credits, but since he mistakenly thinks beat 4 is so short (when actually, it's so long that Williams subdivides it!), he plays his pickup note short. Since he doesn't notice Williams' downward beat 4, he probably thinks beat 3 is actually the one being super-stretched (almost like a mini fermata). It's just a fundamental misunderstanding.
In other words, the guy doesn't seem to be catching Williams' actual beat 4. And since beat 4 is usually conducted as an upstroke - not down - the trumpet player thinks he's seeing beat 4 being conducted, when actually he's seeing the second half of beat 4 being conducted. Sorry if this is confusing; I hope someone else on the forum who is musically-literate understands the point I'm trying to make.
Go see for yourself in the video; can anyone else confirm they're seeing what I'm seeing? It's a bummer. The thing is, as a musician (and a brass player), I can see why the trumpet player would think the way he did. The issue could have been avoided if Williams conducted beat 4 as a partial upstroke (which would have made everyone plainly aware of where beat 4 was), and then re-beat up in the air to signal the second half of the beat. So basically, conduct beat 4 in the normal direction (upwards), but do two gestures upwards to subdivide the beat, so everybody knows what is what.
TLDR: Normally beat 4 is conducted as an upstroke, but Williams conducted beat 4 as a downstroke so he could do the second half of beat 4 as an upstroke. The trumpet player mistakenly thought the upstroke Williams did for the second half of beat 4, was actually the beginning of beat 4. That's why the trumpet player's last note before the credits is so late and short.
EDIT: Yep, he played it correctly on Thursday night; listen to how his note is longer and lines up with the rest of the orchestra. So, I'm 99% sure that's what happened. The other times, the guy got confused by what Williams was doing for beat 4 of that measure, and you can hear he sounds a little uncertain as to the placement of his note. Too bad; hopefully Thursday gets used for that spot in the commercial recording, but I won't hold my breath.
@Sibelius6, thoughts?
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It does sound kind of cool, the more that I listen to it. But I just thought it was a case of the trumpet player not being aware of where his note fits in with everyone else, and not following Williams' eighth-note gesture on the upbeat. I hope it was intentional, but I got a bit of an uncertain vibe from the trumpet player on that note in the Saturday recording.
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Someone on YT posted the Throne Room recording from Friday night... Is it just me, or is the first trumpet's note leading into the credits (4:30 in this video) late? Pretty sure he should be in sync on that note with the strings (and others), but he enters later than them.
I noticed the same thing during the Saturday Digital Concert Hall performance, which you can hear in the MP3 that is available. In the piece, there's a big slow-down leading up to the credits, and I'm pretty sure it should be an eighth-note pickup... But he plays more like a sixteenth-note instead. It doesn't sound that way in ANY other recording (to the best of my knowledge).
Is this simply a mistake that persisted throughout the week that Williams didn't notice, or did Williams give him the go-ahead to place the note later than everybody else? It just sounds a bit off...
Don't get me wrong, I love his playing overall. But this note just stood out to me, and it's a bit frustrating since everything else is amazing.
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The only thing Vienna had that I REALLY wish Berlin had, is Hook. Other than that, I prefer Berlin's program. (Oh, and "The Rise of Skywalker" would have been nice, too.)
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2 hours ago, Taikomochi said:
I mean, yes, the risk is low, but the it is nonetheless relatively higher for a nearly 90-year-old man. No need for him to fuck around with a disease that can have long lingering effects even in mild cases. We all want him to keep doing what he’s doing.
But those masks are meant to prevent you from spreading it to others, not to prevent you from catching it...
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1 hour ago, MaestroUE said:PS: I coincidentally captured the moment with the autograph hunter 😁 Seemed like a young, clueless guy, who may have recklessly counted on JW’s good nature.
Does the video not work for anyone else? Man, it's frustrating; I keep seeing members posting .MOV video links, but none of them are working for me.
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1 hour ago, Pauling said:
I can't see it either, for some reason.
This video I am sending is the final seconds of the Imperial March on Thursday. Williams seems to be enjoying. It was one of the best versions I have ever heard, second only to the one in Vienna (in this version the decrease in tempo in the last measure seems impressive to me).
Can't see yours either, unfortunately.
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2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:
Haven't we gone over this multiple times already? The LSO are experienced sight-readers who do a lot of film music recordings, the Philharmoniker are not. If one concert gets cancelled (and before the first rehearsal, too), a rescheduling (and with a different programme, though that hardly matters) a year later won't mean any players would have looked at the sheet music during that time (let alone learn & practice it). I still believe that Williams, upon hearing the orchestra, thinking they can play everything already, and cutting the rehearsals short, and being used to American orchestras and the LSO, overestimated their sight reading skills and didn't expect some problematic moments to persist from rehearsal to performance. And ultimately, though there are flubs (and at least one of them apparently in the printed sheet music), not every imprecision is an error. The LSO's extreme precision is impressive, but it's not the only way to play music, and a more "organic" performance can have its own strengths. The Berliner these days seem closer to the LSO's precision than the Wiener's style in that regard.
Which mistake is in the printed sheet music?
EDIT: The E.T. chord?
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2 hours ago, Martinland said:
I can; stumbled upon these by pure chance while browsing/calibrating a day before the concert, made me raise an eyebrow:
At 2:00 (!!) and 8:20:
https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/playlist/10#
(EDIT: I just checked - you have to go down to the end of this page and click on "Watch interview")
He is one of the absent soloists, I suppose?
I did watch two movements of the Tchaikovsky by the way (the famously energetic 'Allegro molto vivace' and the quiet finale) - excellent; but his conducting is so utterly over the top, I do prefer Williams.
Ugh, can't stand that guy's attitude.
2 minutes ago, Henry Sítrónu said:Hm, can't see it for some reason.
Which concert was better, Vienna or Berlin?
in JOHN WILLIAMS
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Yep. In every other recording (and the score), the timpani is with the low brass on those triplets. In the Boston Pops one, it's a bar later than them.