enderdrag64

ThePenitentMan1 · February 16

10 hours ago, Faleel said:

Just found another use for AI:

Clean endings/openings from combined cues on releases!

I just used AI to seperate the vocal sea shanty source cues from the additional composer rewrite cues from the FSM release of Rozsa's All the Brothers Were Valiant!

I suppose it would also be useful in isolating music in those awful OST's that include dialogue

Yeah it's really awesome for this

I've been messing around with that OpenVINO Audacity AI this past week, managed to get a clean opening/some unreleased parts for a few ESB cues out of the radio drama...

In particular I got the ending of 9m6-10m1 Insert Bar 57 completely clean

And I managed to get the 14 missing seconds of 9m6-10m1 Carbon Freeze mostly clean as well, this doesn't sound quite as good but for how terrible the source was it's pretty impressive

February 15

4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Oddly enough, the draft that Lucas regards as this 250-page "Ur" screenplay is the Rough draft!

Woah really?? Where did he say this?

Chen G. · February 15

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Its funny the defenses I've seen from Lucas apologists for this kind of stuff:

"He said he made the first act into a movie, but he didn't explicitly say that he turned the other two acts into the subsequent entries" - yeah, except he did.

"He said he made the three acts into the three films, but he doesn't say he had them ready as three feature-length screenplays" - yeah, except he did.

There were a couple of other apologetics I can't quite remember right now, but you get the picture.

Yeah I don't actually know what a rational explanation is for these statements. Even in Empire of Dreams he says that he split the movie up and only filmed the first act. But like all of the drafts for Star Wars are available to read quite easily online...

Even without those, loads of official sources have documented their contents quite extensively; it's quite obvious that Empire and Jedi were not written until, well, the development of Empire and Jedi. Even the plot of the original was not really outlined until the second draft, the two treatments and the rough/first draft was basically scrapped completely minus one or two key scenes.

The only thing I can think of is maybe he meant in the sense of reusing concepts, like how the floating city of Alderaan from the drafts of Star Wars became the Cloud City of Bespin in Empire.

But still in that clip he very explicitly talks about acts 2 and 3 story-wise....

February 9

40 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

This is anime, it plays by different rules. As far as I know, there has been a lot of theatrically released movies based on successful TV animes, but not many series have made the migration to the big screen, especially when it's still airing or a few years after.

That's fair; but this one is special because it was a theatrical continuation of the show - most anime movies are silly non-canon adventures that have no bearing on the plot.

So being a theatrical continuation of the show it's really not that different from the Mandalorian movie except perhaps for target audience.

February 9

3 hours ago, Marcus Stöhr said:

Super late to this topic but I still have the backups from Scorepedia and also registered scorepedia.org again. If there is any interest I'd gladly hand over the files and can also help with setting up a server.

Woah that could be awesome. Only problem is growing editor/visitor interest on a unique domain

February 9

12 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I may be wrong, but I think this is kind of a risky bet for Disney at the box office. I don't think there haven't been many theatrically-released movies based on TV shows that until recently were airing episodes that have been hugely successful at the box office.

The only ones I can remember are The X-Files: Fight the Future (which was released between seasons five and six of the show and grossed $189 million on a $66 million budget) and the 2019 Downton Abbey movie (released four years after the series ended and grossed $195 million on a $20 million budget).

All of them were moderately successful but not the kind of Star Wars money that Disney surely wants. So they'll have to make the movie appealing also to people who haven't seen the show.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_Slayer:_Kimetsu_no_Yaiba_–_The_Movie:_Mugen_Train

Manakin Skywalker · February 7

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

To celebrate the occasion, I'm going back to my original profile picture.

finally, your username makes sense

February 6

2 hours ago, Faleel said:

Audacity has Stem Seperation plugins now:

https://www.audacityteam.org/blog/openvino-ai-effects/

Woah I definitely have to play around with these when I get home

February 4

I've only seen a few eps of TOS, TNG, and Enterprise along with most of the movies.

But out of all those my favorite Star Trek is The Orville

ThePenitentMan1 · February 3

13 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

"Massive life readings, though... There's something alive down there."

Trees are life

February 3

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

Why? Where? How? I might never have pictured the prequels but I never thought he was from there.

Yeah I was thinking this too. I think it's pretty heavily implied that he isn't from there actually. If the Jedi were once guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic, and Yoda is 900 years old, then he must've been around for the height of the Jedi, and therefore would almost certainly not have been on Dagobah. Unless we're to believe that in the height of the Jedi Order all the prospective students were sent to Dagobah one at a time to seek Yoda, which seems very unlikely

February 3

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Why do you think it isn't? I'm just saying that if Star Wars is a Hero's Journey then we have not seen the story's end. (It wouldn't even be close.)

JTN · February 2

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Based on the evidence I've seen - primarily, the literal words of the Star Wars canon - I've concluded that Lucasfilm is not making up the narrative, themes, lore, and character archetypes... you know, those little things that comprise a story.

So it's based on a true story then?

February 1

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

No one outside our target group understands or cares what's wrong with the current sets, really. I worked with someone who is a mega SW fan, went crazy for the sequel films, wanted to dress up to go see them; the whole shebang. He wouldn't care one iota about new remastered sets - they're all on Spotify, what's the problem?

Hence I'd suggest that they would ideally be speciality releases with sufficient scope for pressings to cater for demand, because that's a frame of mind to convince the suits that there's a conscious and credible market that would snap up thousands of copies overnight because that market understands what the product is. Only problem then is convincing them to do it partly for the cultural perservation, and not be deterred by the probably comparatively small profit it would make.

Yeah I think the problem is definitely communication. I had zero idea that there was anything wrong with the official albums until I stumbled on jwfan on a whim when I noticed the TPM CD track titles were out of order.

January 31

6 hours ago, Tom said:

Because SW and "most likely" are not compatible terms.

To be fair the last two even numbered years we've gotten Star Wars score expansions...

The Rogue One one surprise dropped about 2 years ago to the date, perhaps it's a pattern

CGCJ · January 27

Additionally here's a TLJ spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vpq5zjRXngkW0GfCsna4ZM4xVX7UNgRCTYprn5HePbM/edit

This one is pretty much complete, I still haven't finished writing in the track names and lengths and stuff for the isolated on the complete score tab but otherwise all the info is in there. There are just a couple unknowns in the isolated score tab if anyone wants to help with those, but the rest is accurate.

And here's a TROS one:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X-HjbqyhRfq5f8w-2DNUYoGWtBf9CbmfTu_RrtWhdfM/edit

For the TROS one there is currently only an FYC breakdown and the final cut breakdown, which were taken directly from information kindly provided by @BrotherSound. I do also plan on porting over the Nov 11th cut info from Jay's spreadsheet, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I opted not to include an OST breakdown yet as it's mostly just guesswork without the sheets and likely inaccurate.

January 23

13 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Eight minutes of tracking is relatively restrained in a post-TROS world.

I don't have exact numbers off hand but it might even be less than ROTJ and the three prequels...

January 22

3 hours ago, Bespin said:

and a stereo issue in one of the thematic tracks with Yoda (I always forget which one).

The left and right channels are swapped in two cues from ESB on the 1993 set.

Leia's Instructions and Chewie Chokes Lando (Departure of Boba Fett). Unfortunately both are crossfaded with other cues before then so you can't just swap the channels yourself and fix it.

Chewie Chokes Lando (Departure of Boba Fett) was corrected on the 1997 set, which uses the same transfer for that track, so in your rip you could nust replace that 1993 cue with the 1997 version which would fix the channels being swapped. Still wouldn't get you a clean opening though

Trope · January 20

12 hours ago, igger6 said:

Is the current OST on Spotify the awful remaster or the 2016 one (or are those the same)?

The 2016 releases were the original OST albums. They were new transfers of the original OST masters, and many people say they're the best sounding releases of those OSTs.

The 2018 releases are ground up rebuilds of the OSTs made using the session masters, those are the sets people have a lot of problems with, and are the ones currently on streaming services.

ciarlese · January 16

What I meant is that I have no idea where that number came from in terms of being the amount labels would have to pay.

Why don't sections 8C-8G apply?

January 16

8 hours ago, crumbs said:

And it also seems to refer to music recorded under previous agreements, not the current one (where the problematic fees supposedly apply).

Yes I noticed that too shortly after I posted, but the most current single session fee listed in that agreement (for 2021) is only about $40 more per musician than the 2010 one, so it wouldn't substantially change the results. The example I gave would be $38k instead of $34k.

8 hours ago, crumbs said:

Unless I'm reading this wrong, that specifies usage of previously recorded music in a theatrical motion picture, which would surely fall under a different category to a commercial soundtrack release.

I mean you can read it yourself, section 8 is about the specific rules for reuse of motion picture music for any purpose.

8A says it's not allowed to reuse motion picture music for anything but the motion picture it was recorded for, but then lists a bunch of exceptions, including those that are free and those that require fees.
8B is what I screenshotted, which is the only place in the document I saw any mention of exact numbers for how much a reuse fee is. The rest of the document just refers to them as "% of the scale wages calculated using the basic session rate (plus AFM Employers’ Pension Fund contributions) that would have been paid pursuant to the then-effective Sound Recording Labor Agreement" which I've interpreted to mean whatever the current single session fee was for the year it was recorded
8C-8G I outlined above, they're all just optional fee arrangements under which a soundtrack could be released.

Now it is possible that instead of being a single session fee, the reuse fees are the total fees for all sessions, so say TFA had 20 sessions, instead of $38k it would be $760k.

$760k is obviously unaffordable by any label, but under sections 8C-8G it should still be possible to pay only a tiny fraction of that.

With 8E.2 it would be $64k under 10k units, which while expensive is not impossible to pay.

Also @Holko mentioned before that under 8E.1 it should be free under 15k units, regardless of whatever the fees would otherwise total.

Earlier in this thread, @Jaygave an example from MM of the fees being something like $360k. I have no idea where that number came from

Manakin Skywalker · January 15

I also did some math real quick based on the pdf I linked, which includes the actual price of 100% reuse fees.

Based on this, a score like The Force Awakens with 123 musicians would have reuse fees costing $34k.

An expansion like Hook will make LLL like $200k ($40 * 5000 units), even with the money that goes into licensing and paying JW and MM and Jim Titus and Jay and all the other collaborators, I can't imagine that $34k is too expensive - hell, raising the price by $7 would cover it completely!

But, that's also the 100% reuse fee, as I illustrated above in most cases you shouldn't have to pay 100% fees. Under 8E.2 the reuse fees for TFA should be just under $3k. What am I missing here?

January 15

Okay I just did a deep dive reading the AFM rules on soundtrack releases and reuse fees. I do not understand at all the issue that specialty labels have with expanding scores after August 2005. Here is the AFM rules pdf:

https://www.afm.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/2020-Basic-Theatrical-Motion-Picture-Agreement.pdf
The section on soundtrack rules is from pgs 11-34.

My understanding of this section is as follows: Soundtracks can be released under one of the provisions of section 8, which dictates when reuse fees are owed and how they are to be paid. The exact breakdown looks like this:

8A is free but only applies if used for promotional purposes
8C is pay 50% upfront and 50% after 50k sales, with an extra 20% fee if rules aren't followed and 100k sales are reached (there is a 15% discount if certain rules are followed, releases under 7.5 mins owe 100% instead)
8D is pay 25% upfront, another 25% after 25k sales, and another 50% after 50k sales, again with an extra 20% fee if rules aren't followed and 100k sales are reached (there is a 15% discount if certain rules are followed)
8E.1 is pay 50% after 15k sales, and another 50% after 50k sales, again with an extra 20% fee if rules aren't followed and 100k sales are reached (there is a 15% discount if certain rules are followed)
8E.2 is pay 10% upfront, with an additional 10% for every 10k sales up to 110k sales after which no fees are owed (there is a 15% discount if certain rules are followed)
- 8E also has special rules for digital releases, a full album sale = 1 sale, an individual track sale = 1/12 sale
8F is pay 50% after 200k sales, and another 50% after 380k sales, with an extra 20% fee if rules aren't followed and 450k sales are reached, only applies to singles
8G is pay 5% upfront for scores before August 14, 2005, but this fee can be waived

So promotional albums like FYCs are free, as are any score expansions for scores recorded before August 14, 2005. I don't see any exemption here for reuse fees for OST releases, or for multiple volume OSTs or anything of the like. I also don't see anything saying all scores recorded after August 14, 2005 owe 100% of the fees.

Quite to the contrary, couldn't a specialty label release an expansion under 8E.2 and pay just 8.5% if they sell under 10k units?

January 15

6 hours ago, Edmilson said:

What was their justification for that? It doesn't seem like something that would break the rules.

But perhaps @Holko is correct, that sub has way too many casuals, for whom the Disney demasters are enough (that is, when they actually bother to listen to Star Wars music).

could be not enough reddit karma or some stupid shit like that. I remember having a post of mine deleted from there once too

ThePenitentMan1 · January 15

5 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

I shared it to r/StarWars, r/soundtracks, and r/johnwilliams

I replied to some of the comments there. I'm shocked how much blatantly incorrect information there was, like people saying the albums are already complete or that all of the OT master tapes are missing

I have dreamed before about making a YouTube video or series about this topic both to bring light to the necessity of competent expansions as well as to educate the general public about film music and all the intricacies of the Star Wars scores. If millions of people will listen to an 8 hour retrospective of someone rambling about a videogame, surely there's an audience for something similar about star wars music. There's certainly enough content for it...

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