karelm

Luke and Ren's light sabers never actually touch.  Along with no footprints from Luke as Chen G said. 
 
Rian: It is very much a variant of when Luke went into the tree cave in Dagobah, Rey gets a very different answer when she questions her role and her path.  This island has an incredible light represented by the jedi tree on top and incredible darkness represented by this cave.  She goes in looking for answers and what it shows her is her greatest fear which is in her search for the truth of her identity, there are all these various possibilities seemingly going off into infinity.  She comes to the end looking for an answer to her identity and it is ultimately just her alone.

No, not really.  Think of it like this.  In mid 1960's America, a very idealistic serviceman joins the military and through his heroism and exemplary service, becomes a hero and ultimately a legend to his fellow servicemen.  Though through his experiences, he finds the cause to be ultimately unjust and full of deception, corruption, unjustifiable losses, etc.  Disillusioned, he ultimately throws away his metal of honor and valor and wants nothing to do with the code he once truly believed in.  Then a young idealist tracks him down when he clearly doesn't want to be found and gives him these discarded reminders of the hero he once was.   He makes it clear he wants nothing more to do with the "legend" of who he was to this idealistic young warrior who is still inspired by his now mythical heroics and code of honor until he bumps in to his original commander who was an even greater legend.  He learns what he has become does not serve his intentions as well as he thought.  What makes this story so compelling is that he ultimately comes to terms with his status as legend and joins the fight for a cause he does find purpose and meaning in thereby guaranteeing the legend status he sought to avoid.  Luke's story is still very interesting and deep.  Now the problem comes down to execution in the film. 
 
JTWfan77, how would you have preferred the luke story to have gone in TLJ?

No, not really.  Think of it like this.  In mid 1960's America, a very idealistic serviceman joins the military and through his heroism and exemplary service, becomes a hero and ultimately a legend to his fellow servicemen.  Though through his experiences, he finds the cause to be ultimately unjust and full of deception, corruption, unjustifiable losses, etc.  Disillusioned, he ultimately throws away his metal of honor and valor and wants nothing to do with the code he once truly believed in.  Then a young idealist tracks him down when he clearly doesn't want to be found and gives him these discarded reminders of the hero he once was.   He makes it clear he wants nothing more to do with the "legend" of who he was to this idealistic young warrior who is still inspired by his now mythical heroics and code of honor until he bumps in to his original commander who was an even greater legend.  He learns what he has become does not serve his intentions as well as he thought.  What makes this story so compelling is that he ultimately comes to terms with his status as legend and joins the fight for a cause he does find purpose and meaning in thereby guaranteeing the legend status he sought to avoid.  Luke's story is still very interesting and deep.  Now the problem comes down to execution in the film. 
 
JTWfan77, how would you have preferred the luke story to have gone in TLJ?

The pacing issue is very obvious and I would say along with useless secondary plots/secondary characters is the worst aspect of this film.  I am ok with the treatment of Luke and don't see him as arsehole either.  He sensed good in vader where with kylo ren, he senses full evil.  This was the same debate Luke had with yoda in ESB with luke playing the the wiser of the two in TLJ.  In ESB, yoda warned luke that he is getting played by the dark side because his feelings were getting involved.  Remember, Rey is very junior in her knowledge of the force though she has so much potential.  It is a totally fine plot decision.

5. Rian provided a temp track and JW decided if, when, and how he would follow it allowing for creative liberties and in some cases JW ignoring it.  <- This is what happened.

The end scene is supposed to represent that throughout this film, Luke was against the concept of Luke, the legend, where ultimately broom boy was showing these stories had spread and others were inspired by that legend during a time of hopelessness.  Reluctantly, Luke transcended the person to become Spartacus.  It is sort of hinted at in TFA when Rey tells Han she thought Luke was a myth.  This is really a far more satisfying story than having Luke be the headmaster at Hogwart's school of wizards and jedi.  I think this is a very solid and fitting mortal end to the character...as a legend...and beautifully shot with the twin sunsets.
 
Interesting side note, the yoda puppet is not the exact same one used in ESB.  It is a recreation of that puppet.  Hamill says there were many mechanical problems with the original 1980 puppet so I assume the state of the original puppet is poor.  They remade one to the same specifications as 1980's yoda arguing this is the only yoda Luke ever knew, not the general yoda of PT or CW.

5. Rian provided a temp track and JW decided if, when, and how he would follow it allowing for creative liberties and in some cases JW ignoring it.  <- This is what happened.

The end scene is supposed to represent that throughout this film, Luke was against the concept of Luke, the legend, where ultimately broom boy was showing these stories had spread and others were inspired by that legend during a time of hopelessness.  Reluctantly, Luke transcended the person to become Spartacus.  It is sort of hinted at in TFA when Rey tells Han she thought Luke was a myth.  This is really a far more satisfying story than having Luke be the headmaster at Hogwart's school of wizards and jedi.  I think this is a very solid and fitting mortal end to the character...as a legend...and beautifully shot with the twin sunsets.
 
Interesting side note, the yoda puppet is not the exact same one used in ESB.  It is a recreation of that puppet.  Hamill says there were many mechanical problems with the original 1980 puppet so I assume the state of the original puppet is poor.  They remade one to the same specifications as 1980's yoda arguing this is the only yoda Luke ever knew, not the general yoda of PT or CW.

This is what Rian Johnson said before the public premieres/fan complaints started that the story he wants told is Rey and Ren's story so he found Luke, Rey's parents, and Snoke to be superfluous to the core story much as Palpatine was a background character that took decades to have a backstory to.  He said Luke's heroe's journey ended with Return of the Jedi so he is a secondary character to Rey who is in the midst of her own hero's journey.  I think some fans who were disappointed wanted Luke's hero's quest to continue.  Fans these days have gotten soft if they don't get what they want right away (TLJ) or if they get what they ask for right away (TFA).  He also said regarding the revelation that Rey's heritage is inconsequential - at the moment Ren tells Rey this, if it is ultimately true is for the next chapter in the saga where it might be "from a certain point of view" but what was important was at that moment both Ren and Rey believed it.  The reason why he did this was he was tired of the concept of jedi being from certain families and found Rey's journey to be more compelling in the story he was telling that she was not a Skywalker or Kenobi which were the most prominent theories.  It wasn't an FU to fans but I think one of the better story decisions in the film.  If she falls or succeeds, she and Ren stand on their own and that is the set up into IX.  That's really not a bad story and it is new and gutsy.  I do agree with most fans that the execution could have been better.
 
The question was also asked about Leia's resurrection.  The way he described it was Leia had some power in her that even she didn't fully know at a very primitive level.  The analogy being like someone drowns and shows no further signs of life somehow something at a very primitive instinctive level like a heartbeat or they kick instinctively...just one more instinctive attempt to survive. 
 
I can't say it is a great film. It is a good film with great moments and some very poor structural/execution decisions and extremely forgettable secondary characters/subplots.
 

You know what would be cool?  If Kylo Ren was the reason that Leia survived being blasted into space rather than Leia using the force.  Palpatine tells Anakin "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved through centuries of the study of the Force" and something that cannot be learned from the jedi so it is a dark force skill that results in Leia's reincarnation.  Since Kylo showed compassion towards his mom's death and is very skilled in the force, he resurrected her.

I finally saw it Tuesday night. I don't get why it's getting a bad rep.  I for one enjoyed it.  Ya it's not on the same level as Empire Strikes Back or Rogue One but it's still enjoyable. 
 
Those that say that it ruined their childhood or Star Wars in general well...just stupid.  Some of the things I've been reading from well...fans with how far they're taking things with the negativity is real stupid.  I know Trekkies can be bad but not THIS bad.  This takes horrible for fans to a whole new level.
 
Edit: Ya I guess having Luke actually there to face off Kylo in person would have been a little better but at the same time him using every ounce of his strength after he reconnected to the force to project himself half way across the galaxy then dying because of it is a suiting end.  I even liked the fact that they showed a dual sunset like a Tatooine sunset.
 
BTW I also found it cool that Rey saw Luke's X-Wing in the ocean.

Oops...fixed

Why?  I think it worked fine because the message he was saying was he really did not want to go back told without dialog and in a shocking/humorous way.  It landed for me and my audience found it shocking, revealing, and funny.  If he just dropped it, it's more like he is saying "I sort of don't want to continue the jedi fight". 
 
I still think overall the film was quite satisfying except for pacing/extraneous scenes and characters that were forced and added little.  15 minutes too long and maybe another 10-15 minutes that should have been focused better on character moments.  The false death sequence of Leia was either wasted or misjudged. 
 
I thought the humor was very fitting of Star Wars including Chewie eating a porg.  I would have wanted a back and forth banter between R2 and 3PO which would have just been for nostalgia/fan service but would have been warmly received if 3PO goes from joyful reunion to annoyance pretty quickly. 
 

You know what would be cool?  If Kylo Ren was the reason that Leia survived being blasted into space rather than Leia using the force.  Palpatine tells Anakin "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved through centuries of the study of the Force" and something that cannot be learned from the jedi so it is a dark force skill that results in Leia's reincarnation.  Since Kylo showed compassion towards his mom's death and is very skilled in the force, he resurrected her.

I think the historic context is also very important.  It came out of nowhere and changed everything.  It was so youthful and pitch perfect entertainment with absolutely no cynicism at a time full of that...so was extremely refreshing entertainment.  Also unusual at the time was the false ending.  It could have ended with the escape from the death star and been a very satisfying movie but then add this incredibly exciting space battle and the edge if your seat up hill battle culminating with that last second heroics of Han Solo.  It is hard to explain why it is so great without the context.  It was probably the most visually rich world building seen in decades (Maybe since Wizard of Oz).  After all this, the sequel (quite unusual at the time) deepened all the characters, the mythology, the stakes, the drama.  With the PT, this was pretty routine.  Now it is formulaic so hard to come out of nowhere with these types of films so the expectation is just different.

It would be interesting to read George Lucas's story treatments for episodes VII to IX.  Mark Hamill said the treatments were interesting and obviously would have been more consistent in tone to the originals.  I think Lucas is a pretty good imagineer but not a good writer so if he wrote a plot treatment and had Kasdan or someone flush out a script, it could be worth reading.  Obviously he sold his ownership of the franchise but it is possible these can be made into graphic novels or novels or something at some future date like how they treated Lucas's original Star Wars script.
https://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Original-Screenplay-George/dp/1783294981

Would you guys want a Star Wars Live in Concert recording?  Basically that would be every cue of music from the original trilogy and TFA in state of the art sound but not the original performance and conducting we grew up with.  This would basically be a re-recording like what Tadlow did with Ben-Hur.

Would you guys want a Star Wars Live in Concert recording?  Basically that would be every cue of music from the original trilogy and TFA in state of the art sound but not the original performance and conducting we grew up with.  This would basically be a re-recording like what Tadlow did with Ben-Hur.

Pittsburgh Symphony Trombonist Releases Star Wars Album
 
James Nova, trombonist in the Pittsburgh Symphony orchestra, has released a new album for trombone choir, A Fall from Light to Dark. Through the chosen moments of John Williams’ masterful scores, this album musically chronicles the rise and descent of Anakin Skywalker as he transforms into Darth Vader.
 
Jim has had a lifelong love of John Williams’ film scores since his Dad took him and his brother to see The Empire Strikes Back in the theater. Throughout his career he has performed and recorded with John Williams on several occasions, with the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra, the Boston Symphony, the Boston Pops as well as the Utah Symphony.
 
In 2012, Jim was preparing for another season with the Pittsburgh Symphony and thought a fun way to get into shape would be to overdub (or “Novadub”) one of his John Williams trombone choir transcriptions. He chose his transcription of the Superman March as his first effort. He posted it on SoundCloud. Fast forward to now and his SoundCloud page has passed 600,000 listens! He decided it was time to make an actual commercial album and set out learning the art of mixing and mastering, which brings him to this project: A Fall from Light to Dark.
 
Some of you may think, “trombone choir?” Trombone choir is a rich and varied color ensemble capable of powerful, crushing, devastating and also tender, introspective, delicate moments. This album demonstrates the power of John Williams’ scores and how they translate so well to this medium.
 
All transcriptions, playing, recording, editing, mixing and mastering by James Nova.
 
To hear some clips and learn more about Jim, visit jimnova.com
 
 

To answer my own question definitively, Rain said he was terrified of mucking up the character threads like telling Kathy Kennedy Luke would die in his film.  He said it was very important that he was collaborating with the owners of the story line so he moved up to San Francisco and told them his story ideas throughout the process.  He was challenged and had to have his story ideas hold up on screen to the holders of the legacy even if "uncomfortable things" happen to our beloved characters.  Basically this wasn't just a writer in a vacuum but was strongly involved with the property owners. He worked to JJ Abrams directly from the start who showed him the script before the Force Awakens was released.  He also worked with the cast who had their own opinions.  Mark Hamill asked why can't certain aspects of my character be revealed in episode IX but the collective writers disagreed with the story thread. 
"Every character gets pushed out of their comfort zone".  Hamill said "I was just glad they weren't just blowing up another death star".  They praised the very clever editing (Kylo Ren's light saber makes a sound but Luke's doesn't which I didn't notice plus the lack of foot prints).  The most important aspect is the story aspects are developed in a community of the story owners.
 
EDIT: The film makers flat out stated John Williams's score was such a major part in complex scenes to figuring out what should happen (like visual effects) "once we got the early soundtrack to the scene, we understood the tonal and emotional impact of the sequence because of Williams's score".  No surprise but JW is Star Wars.  They mention referencing "Star Wars Legends" which I don't know anything about if someone can explain?  
"That is part of the joy of working with Lucas" ...there is a "story group" that is so strongly steeped in the Star Wars mythology to make sure the story fits. 

Are you a secondary account for SKY88 by any chance? 

Hey Richard, if I remember correctly you saw TESB in the theaters in 1980, right?  I might be thinking of someone else.  My memories were TESB were VERY well received by the critics and audience.  People couldn't even get their heads around their thoughts they were so emotionally involved.  After seeing it, we needed answers immediately so spent the night debating possibilities and ramifications and how could Obi Wan have lied...etc.  It was an emotional and theatrical stunner from the start and not a slow burn.  There was a feeling that it lacked the innocent joy of the first film but that is an opinion that is unchanged.
 
Go easy on the booz, mate. Responding to a thread while drunk isn't a good idea...trust me I know.

Are you a secondary account for SKY88 by any chance? 

But the third act is a very well earned Luke as bad ass sequence.  It felt like helm's deep as the fight got more and more desperate.  I loved it.  I also loved the first act with great story threads.  It really is that unnecessary third story thread that is the worst for me.
 
Question - how do the writers approach writing their chapter of the saga?  So JJ Abrams takes on IX but did he already know while on VII that snoke would die in episode VIII because they are all telling the same grand story or does each one pick up where the previous left off rather than they are all working towards the same story direction?  Has anyone read or heard a response to this?  I assume it is sort of like episodic television where the specific details are filled in by the writer of that episode however there is a general plot outline that they must all adhere to.