Hans Zimmer a Worthy Successor to Williams?

[robthehand 3]

For many of his scores, yes, but what I meant is that, a few times, Goldsmith came closest to Williams style than anyone else did (I'm think of scores like Supergirl and Star Trek - The Motion Picture). I didn't mean his style in general was like Williams', just that a few of his scores were the nearest anyone got. I know I'm not exactly making sense here... but I know that a lot Goldsmith's music is about different from Williams' as you can get.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Goldsmith came closest to Williams style than anyone else did (I'm think of scores like Supergirl and Star Trek - The Motion Picture).

There is nothing in Star Trek: TMP that even remotely resembles Williams, which is amazing since the producers probably wanted a SW rip-off score.

Same for Supergirl actually.....

[robthehand 3]

Well we'll have to disagree there. I think there are some simliarites.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Please point out the Star Wars similarities you hear in TPM (and not just Ilia's Theme please, that's been done to death).

Go on...I'm waitin'.

[Alejandro 26]

Same for Supergirl actually.....

Oh, I was listening to Monster Tractor from Supergirl yesterday ... very nice. It was pure Goldsmith, from the ryhthms, synths, melody (evil, supergirl, love theme) and nice development. A little bit of everything-Goldsmith in that one.

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[robthehand 3]

Please point out the Star Wars similarities you hear in TPM (and not just Ilia's Theme please, that's been done to death).

Go on...I'm waitin'.

TPM?

What do you want? Specific cues? Obviously I can't find exact quotes that are the same, and there'll always be disagreement as to whether they're simliar or not, and I'm far from an expert at describing music, all I can say is that to me the two scores are fairly similar in style.

[Marcus 390]

I'm with Stefancos on this: There is very little in Goldsmith's output that resembles Williams' style, even in Supergirl and Star Trek TMP. If anything, the Spielberg-directed Twilight Zone- The Movie segment has some quasi Williams-esque 'suburbia'-music, as does the first reel of Poltergeist, but it is still vastly different from Williams.

Of course, it depends on how broadly we define "style"...

[robthehand 3]

I was using it very broadly.

[Alejandro 26]

I think Williams and Goldsmith shared similarities in their approach to scoring a film, especially with lyricism.

What Spielberg will need is a composer who understands the scoring process, who has the ability to develop themes and attacks each cue with the rest of the score in mind (rather than scoring every scene like it's the only scene in the film and therefore needs a big finish).

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[robthehand 3]

What Spielberg will need is a composer who understands the scoring process

"I know, but they're all dead." -Steven Spielberg

[Marcus 390]

What they certainly also shared, is tremendous talent, skill, vast amounts of experience, and a sense of musicianship that is sadly lacking in most contemporary composers in Hollywood today.

As much as I adore Spielberg's work, I too would rather he retire when Williams is no longer available to score his films.

RobtheHand, thank you for that very pertinent quote!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I was using it very broadly.

Cop-out...COP-OUT!

[robthehand 3]

I know, I know.

Star Trek - The Motion Picture, listening very carefully 8O

[Alejandro 26]

Zimmer can do very nice work on small films.

How does he score an action film? Does he use the same process as Williams, with those lines on the screen that then flash to signal a point where the music needs to change (i forget the term).

If Zimmer had scored Last Crusade, would he have hit all those cues within the scene for Indy's First Adventure, or would he have written a long piece of music and just stuck it in the background? Like source music.

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[Romão 2,274]

I suspect that when Williams is gone, Spielberg will probably use different composers for different films. Not everyone is as versatile as Williams.

[Richard Penna 3,717]

I can't be bothered to read through the barrage of posts in this topic, so I'll keep my contribution short n sweet:

Likely? Very possibly.

Worthy? You gotta be kidding.

Isn't it weird though, that Spielberg can picture himself working with two composers who have completely different writing styles, physical methods and abilities to compose complex themes. I really hope he either 1) retires when JW does, 2) uses different composers, or 3) pushes Zimmer like no director has before for good material.

[gkgyver 1,646]

Not everyone is as versatile as Williams.  

And certainly not Zimmer. I listened to Gladiator recently. It's just scary how every track resembles a different Zimmer score.

[skyy38 21]

Back to the original thread...

All the worthy ones have died...the last one in June of 2004.   :cry:  

If John Williams goes, we will be saying goodbye to a chapter in film music that words will never do justice for.

Oh Brooooooother!

There is always someone waiting in the wings to become the new "whatever".If John Williams were to die tomorrow,my best musical memories of him would be from 3 decades ago,not 3 years.I *love* John Williams music as much as the next person,but,in addition to all of his musical gifts,the one other thing that helped launch his career was being in the right place at the right time.It's called "a break" and people get them all of the time.People are getting them now.Luck=Opportunity+Preparation.

There were composers before John Williams and life will certainly go on without him because there will be composers *after* John Williams.

It just ain't gonna be Zimmer!(Unless he goes back to school)

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

Don't you Oh Brother me little one!

The facts of life remain, once John Williams goes it is the end of an amazing period in film music. There maybe other amazing periods, but they will be amazing periods all their own, in their own unique ways. What we have witnessed will be no more but a memory.

You can replace a position. You can replace a title. But you cannot replace a person or unique group of people.

[Red 75]

Agreed. There will never be another Williams.

[skyy38 21]

“That sounds like an oxymoron to me,” I said. “A composer who can’t write music?” - Jerry Goldsmith

Dave Brubeck couldn't write music but still.......

:spiny:

[Marcus 390]

Of course there will be composers after Williams, but what I find scary is that because the industry has changed drastically, and with it the type of craft associated with scoring films, there aren't really any candidates out there thus far that really has me excited (certainly not in Hollywood, anyway). Younger composers seem to fall into the category of those who try to emulate blandly great composers like Williams (and generally, they lack technique, style, personality, WARMTH, melodic gift, and most importantly, taste!),

or you'll have the type of composers more likely to join one of the existing factories, who add nothing of significance, but create only pale, pale sonic props (Zimmer&co.).

I haven't heard many composers in their thirties today who possess anything even beginning to approximate the craft and integrity of a young John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith.

[Vaderbait1 1]

Spielberg will pick different composers, depending on the film. No composer out there is as versatile as Williams, which is why he's held up so well in all of Spielberg's various projects. Other composers can only fit a "type" of film Spielberg is making.

[ebertfan92 0]

Although Zimmer is my 3rd favorite composer (Harry Gregson-Williams #2), I think Spielberg should use the underrated Cliff Eidelman. This guy is sort of like a new-age Williams. Here are what I think his best scores:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000014T...8893632?ie=UTF8

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000151...8893632?ie=UTF8

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000003TE...8893632?ie=UTF8

Also, I really don't get what beef they have with Zimmer. I loved with what he did to Gladiator, Black Hawk Down, The Ring, The Last Samurai, and Batman Begins.

[Ollie 1,063]

There is nothing in ST:TMP that comes close to Star Wars and the same can be said for Supergirl and Superman.

Goldsmith had his own distinctive voice.

[gkgyver 1,646]

“That sounds like an oxymoron to me,” I said. “A composer who can’t write music?” - Jerry Goldsmith

And of course he's right. The problem is not that people say certain composers can't write music. The problem is that people who clearly can't write are being called composers.

[Alejandro 26]

“That sounds like an oxymoron to me,” I said. “A composer who can’t write music?” - Jerry Goldsmith

And of course he's right. The problem is not that people say certain composers can't write music. The problem is that people who clearly can't write are being called composers.

And was I pissed when I read in FSM that Gustavo can't read or write music.

MySpace Film Music Group:

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[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Based on what I heard from him, he's no John Williams.

Not even close!

Fucking Academy!

[gkgyver 1,646]

Santaolalla can write, just not ... diverse.

[Luke Skywalker 1,799]

Not neccessarily, maybe he plays notes on his guitar and when he finds a melody he likes he tells someone to write it off...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Manuel, we are talking about Gustavo Santaolalla, not Hans Zimmer.

[Luke Skywalker 1,799]

Nice pun to ol' zimmer.

But Santaolalla could work in the same vein if he can't read or write music.

[John McClane 1]

No one will be the sucessor of JW.People like JW only come only every other century.We are just  lucky to be living in the same age as he is.

This is so very true, we must be proud of living in his era.

As for Zimmer, we all know that Spielberg likes his music. But I also consider Spielberg a very intelligent person, so in the end he'll realize how many good composer there out there better than Zimmer.

Or at least it's what I hope. 8O

Not everyone is as versatile as Williams.

Nobody is.

But some composer showed some good versatility, like John Debney, James Newton-Howard, John Powell...even if everyone knows nobody can reach or substitute John Williams, these can be good choices. And there are quite a good number of other names, all better than Zimmer.

But I think Spielberg will change many composer for his movies, he'll not use only one composer, unless this one composer improve a lot and reach enough versatitlity to be able to be the one and only Spielberg's choice.

[Alejandro 26]

Can somebody please link me to an interview with Spielberg, or tell me of a video interview, where Spielberg expresses his liking for Hans Zimmer.

I believe Jeffrey Katzenberg brought Zimmer to Dreamworks because of their past working relationship at Disney.

[tpigeon 3]

Speilberg has publicly expressed his love for Zimmer's Crimson Tide. I do know that.

Ted

[bondo 33]

Y'all have too much contempt for Zimmer and his music. Comments like "Spielberg is a smart guy, so maybe he'll realize that other composers are better than Zimmer." Huh? Just because you don't like the guy's music doesn't mean other's don't.

And his music is not "bad." It's all a matter of opinion. Personally, I hope Spielberg goes with Zimmer or Giacchino. Who knows, Spielberg could start a new trend with Zimmer - 100% orchestral scores!

[John McClane 1]

Can somebody please link me to an interview with Spielberg, or tell me of a video interview, where Spielberg expresses his liking for Hans Zimmer.

It doesn't answer your request, but this post was pretty good. And that was some kind of legendary thread, that will be remembered for ages. The new generation doesn't know where they lost. 8O

Y'all have too much contempt for Zimmer and his music. Comments like "Spielberg is a smart guy, so maybe he'll realize that other composers are better than Zimmer." Huh? Just because you don't like the guy's music doesn't mean other's don't.

But Spielberg has always worked with the best composer ever, and someone who always used the most richer orchestral sound possible.

Why should we now expect him to totally change his habit, and choose a really mediocre computer composer? There is no new John Wiliams, and never there will be one, but surely there are many orchestral composer way over the average of Zimmer's production.

With his professional elements (expensive keyboards, professional softwares, etc.), many of us could be like Zimmer.

And his music is not "bad."

You're right, it's VERY bad.

Who knows, Spielberg could start a new trend with Zimmer - 100% orchestral scores!

But a good Zimmer's orchestral score has yet to exist.

[bondo 33]

Well gosh, if it something doesn't exist now, then I guess it NEVER will.... :roll:

(I guess The Ring and Hannibal don't count?)

[but Spielberg has always worked with the best composer ever, and someone who always used the most richer orchestral sound possible. Why should we now expect him to totally change his habit, and choose a really mediocre computer composer?

Because your opinion isn't fact, it's opinion. I realize how much you like Williams' music, I do too! But that doesn't mean he's 'the greatest ever' in fact. And just because you think Zimmer's music is mediocre doesn't mean it's mediocre in fact.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

Williams is far and beyond Zimmer. I know that is a fact. And I happen to like a good deal of Zimmer's work a whole lot.

[Ollie 1,063]

Why is this damn thread is still going is beyond my understanding.

[John McClane 1]

Because your opinion isn't fact, it's opinion.

That's what message boards are there for. Everyone shares his own's opinion, and so I do.

But I just want you to know (since I've been here quite longer than you) that my opinion about Zimmer is pretty much the same of every other real orchestral music lover here.

We're not here to discuss synth music.

[Morlock 11]

Speilberg has publicly expressed his love for Zimmer's Crimson Tide. I do know that.

Ted

It's a good score. One of the many good scores by Zimmer.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

We're not here to discuss synth music.

We're here to discuss film music. Which much of Zimmer's work most certainly is.

And he's done quite a few succesful scores. And not just commercially, I mean.

[ymenard 54]

Zimmer is the name anybody with really limited film-score knowledge will use to think it's a good representation of what film-scoring is.

I know some people who have absolutely no interest in film-music yet they always have Gladiator or the Rock, or another guitar+synth+fake instrument score. They think every score should be done that way. Oh they often have 3-4 "Music inspired by the movie" crapola.

Oh... forgot to say, at least we shall be thankfull that Johnny simply cannot write something along the lines of Zimmer/media ventures. My ears still hurt each time I listen to "The Moon Rising" from A.I. Never again Johnny please !

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Didn't his son work on The Moon Rising?

[Morlock 11]

Yes. I wish it had been JW Sr., but it was Junior's work.

[ymenard 54]

It's the work of Sr. I say, there are his touch even in electronic forms (like in the Gungan parade)

[Alejandro 26]

Zimmer is the name anybody with really limited film-score knowledge will use to think it's a good representation of what film-scoring is.

I know some people who have absolutely no interest in film-music yet they always have Gladiator or the Rock, or another guitar+synth+fake instrument score. They think every score should be done that way. Oh they often have 3-4 "Music inspired by the movie" crapola.

Oh... forgot to say, at least we shall be thankfull that Johnny simply cannot write something along the lines of Zimmer/media ventures.  My ears still hurt each time I listen to "The Moon Rising" from A.I.        Never again Johnny please !

I think Williams could write a MV/RC-esque cue if he so chose to.

MySpace Film Music Group:

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[Morlock 11]

It's the work of Sr.

No, it was not. Joseph Williams was brought in to take care of the electronic aspect of that cue.

[Luke Skywalker 1,799]

In fact 3 cues were composed by him. http://www.gsamusic.com/Composers/WILLIAMJ.pdf

And maybe the leakage in FSM podcast of Dex dinner's could be that it is not strictly a John Williams composition...