10 Years of Pure Hell

[Lurker 5]

The Star Wars SE was released 10 years ago today.

Neil

[Red 75]

Would you care to explain why it was pure hell?

[ChrisAfonso 186]

When I went to see ANH in the theater (afternoon showing - big mistake), it was packed with kids who kept on yelling everytime the droids were in view "Yeaaaaaah I got that one as an action figure!!!!!" - "YEEEEahh, me tooooooo!!!11!eleventyone!!!!111!!"

I remember trying to copy the VHS tape from a friend, and ending up with a version in black&white with additional image faults.

Years later I bought an imported UK VHS box set für 50€ from Amazon, and again later, after I began to care for such things, discovered that I had the full screen version.

The good history I have with these is obvious. To date I haven't got any DVD version of the films.

[Ollie 1,059]

The one common phrase I heard from friends/relatives and people standing in line at the theaters was: "I would have gone to these films even if he hadn't added all those CGI effects, just seeing Star Wars on the big screen again would have been enough."

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

To date I haven't got any DVD version of the films.

Neither have I.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Yeah, me neither. This year will be the year, I guess.

[Lurker 5]

Would you care to explain why it was pure hell?

I'm sure I've posted enough on the subject over the past few years. I really don't feel like getting into it again.

Neil

[Red 75]

The one common phrase I heard from friends/relatives and people standing in line at the theaters was: "I would have gone to these films even if he hadn't added all those CGI effects, just seeing Star Wars on the big screen again would have been enough."

Thats a nice thought.

[Henry B 50]

The glorious first decade of revisionist cinematic history is complete.

[scissorhands 16]

Would you care to explain why it was pure hell?

I'm sure I've posted enough on the subject over the past few years. I really don't feel like getting into it again.

Neil

So why do you start a topic about it?

I can't help myself, I'm fond of all those SE movies.

[QMM 4]

Would you care to explain why it was pure hell?

I'm sure I've posted enough on the subject over the past few years. I really don't feel like getting into it again.

Neil

So why do you start a topic about it?

I can't help myself, I'm fond of all those SE movies.

Best post of the thread so far

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Would you care to explain why it was pure hell?

I'm sure I've posted enough on the subject over the past few years. I really don't feel like getting into it again.

Neil

So why do you start a topic about it?

I can't help myself, I'm fond of all those SE movies.

yes but you have odd tastes Peio,

personally I can't stand to watch the old versions without the Jabba sequence added now.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I like it better.

[Lurker 5]

Would you care to explain why it was pure hell?

I'm sure I've posted enough on the subject over the past few years. I really don't feel like getting into it again.

Neil

So why do you start a topic about it?

I was acknowledging the release. My feelings on the SEs (they're garbage) is well known. It's been discussed to death, but I figured some mention at this board was okay since Star Wars is discussed so much here.

Joe, I'm not quite sure what you mean. I always thought you were a staunch supporter of the original film and not the SE, but your statement, "personally I can't stand to watch the old versions without the Jabba sequence added now" suggests otherwise.

Neil

[AI 0]

It's well known that I lurve the cut of Joes' jib.

[Neimoidian 14]

I'd rather say it was a great decade In fact I watched Star Wars Trilogy for the first time in 1997 (I don't count watching RotJ in the early 90s because I didn't even grasp what was that about) and later I couldn't stand watching these movies WITHOUT CGI additions. However, I am not fond of DVDSE tweaks (they screwed colours and sound here and there).

[crocodile 8,017]

Hell or not, we got the RCA releases of the scores, so it wasn't that bad. Even if the SW set has a ANH labeled on it

Karol, who listened to it yesterday and, god, it was awesome!

[Romão 2,274]

We got the complete scores in 1997, so it's 10 years of pure bliss.

[King Mark 3,631]

BEFORE the SE's were announced,I used to think wouldn't it be cool if Lucas fixed some of the crappy and washed out miniatures/space battle effects in an updated version(Star Wars only)..he did,so I'm happy,although he shouldn't have changed anything beyond the miniatures and special effects,like the Greedo shooting first crap.When the SE's and prequels were announced,I became enthousiastic about SW...I got a SW Insider subscription back then,read everything about the SE's and The Phantom Menace,I started collecting the action figures,I had fun despite that things didn't turn out perfectly.This message board and JWfan was born because of Episode 1.

Lets face it,some of the special effects look horrible in the original Star Wars.

K.M..

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

We got the complete scores in 1997, so it's 10 years of pure bliss.

Indeed!

- Marc, who has nothing to add on the SW movies anymore.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Would you care to explain why it was pure hell?

I'm sure I've posted enough on the subject over the past few years. I really don't feel like getting into it again.

Neil

So why do you start a topic about it?

I was acknowledging the release. My feelings on the SEs (they're garbage) is well known. It's been discussed to death, but I figured some mention at this board was okay since Star Wars is discussed so much here.

Joe, I'm not quite sure what you mean. I always thought you were a staunch supporter of the original film and not the SE, but your statement, "personally I can't stand to watch the old versions without the Jabba sequence added now" suggests otherwise.

Neil

sorry Neil, I was mocking ccc's comments

you know how I feel about the purity of 77 version of Star Wars, but we did get the music, which was the only good thing from this.

[Neimoidian 14]

Hell or not, we got the RCA releases of the scores, so it wasn't that bad. Even if the SW set has a ANH labeled on it

Karol, who listened to it yesterday and, god, it was awesome!

I concur. As a matter of fact, I did the same yesterday.

[Ollie 1,059]

Lets face it,some of the special effects look horrible in the original Star Wars.

K.M..

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Lets face it,some of the special effects look horrible in the original Star Wars.

K.M..

uh no they didn't.

however some of the new effects they added look quite horrible, the afore mentioned Jabba sequence which rates really bad, and the stupid new death star explosion which stole from the Undiscovered country.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Some effects are a bit shabby, but it doesn't matter, because all the other elements in the film support each other, and you're never taken out of the experience. The mark of a great movie.

[robthehand 3]

Some of the effects in the original Star Wars were less than perfect, but who cares? It was a good movie, and it is still entertaining to this day, without super-slick and glossy CGI. And they were so heavy-handed, incoporating the new special effects (unlike, say, the DC of ST:TMP where you can hardly see the "join"), that any chance of "improving" the film was lost.

Perhaps if he'd released the originals in an acceptable format - i.e. one that meets the current standard - it wouldn't be so bad - in fact, it wouldn't be bad at all. I couldn't care less that they've "updated" E.T. or Superman, because I also have good-quality legit DVD's of the originals. But Lucas is trying to surpress the original films that people fell in love with - basically one huge spit in the face to the people that funded his $2-billion "empire".

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Perhaps if he'd released the originals in an acceptable format - i.e. one that meets the current standard - it wouldn't be so bad - in fact, it wouldn't be bad at all. I couldn't care less that they've "updated" E.T. or Superman, because I also have good-quality legit DVD's of the originals.

So Spielberg wasted money on making a high quality DVD o f the 1982 ET, for just an availability limited release as was the deluxe edition instead using an LD transfer?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Whaaa?

[Danielle 0]

The Jabba scene represents everything that is wrong with the SE's.

- From a story point of view, we learn absolutely nothing new; every single piece of information was provided 2 minutes earlier in the Greedo scene, and even a lot of the dialogue is the same.

- Han casually steps on Jabba's tail. This is akin to spitting on Don Corleone. Do it if you want, but you'll be lucky to leave the room with all of your limbs. Jabba, of course, doesn't care... He obviously got his infamous gangster reputation by doing flower arranging and dancing with muppets.

- The CG itself goes out of date very quickly. Lucas may find himself redoing this scene every 5-10 years if he's so desperate to keep the films looking "new".

- The Millenium Falcon is revealed early, and without any fanfare. 2 minutes later, it is revealed with the proper musical build-up and the appropriate reaction from the characters and... Why? Thanks to the Jabba scene, this reveal is now meaningless. We're given a big reveal of something we've already seen!

- Boba Fett. He oh-so-casually strolls into view, stops in the middle of the screen, does a little catwalk turn and then walks off again. Yes George, I'm sure this was part of your original vision too. He may as well have looked right into the camera and winked to his fanclub members.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

Great 10 years!

-Genius, who believes the Hexology is utterly perfect, save for Greedo shooting first.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Whaaa?

Just asking were the unaltered ET DVD version came from.

[robthehand 3]

So Spielberg wasted money on making a high quality DVD o f the 1982 ET, for just an availability limited release as was the deluxe edition instead using an LD transfer?

'fraid you've lost me there, Luke.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Whaaa?

Just asking were the unaltered ET DVD version came from.

It's a brand new DVD transfer. No slapping old crap on DVD for a quick buck for Mr. Spielberg. Hats off to him.

- Marc, who would like a nice anamorphic widescreen DVD of the original theatrical cut of CE3K, though.

[robthehand 3]

To my eyes, it looks about the same quality as the Anniversary edition. Which is exactly how it should be.

[Ollie 1,059]

Spielberg also included a remastered version the original version of E.T. with his new CGI enhanced walkie talkie for guns version.

If Lucas had taken the same care there would be less complaints.

[robthehand 3]

There would (should) be no complaints - I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I couldn't care less if Lucas modifies them further, if only he'd released a decent, acceptable transfer of the original.

[Ollie 1,059]

Oh there would be some complaints, plus Neil's list of what he wants is so long I don't think Lucasfilm has all the elements....

[Guest macrea]

The Jabba scene represents everything that is wrong with the SE's.

- From a story point of view, we learn absolutely nothing new; every single piece of information was provided 2 minutes earlier in the Greedo scene, and even a lot of the dialogue is the same.

- Han casually steps on Jabba's tail. This is akin to spitting on Don Corleone. Do it if you want, but you'll be lucky to leave the room with all of your limbs. Jabba, of course, doesn't care... He obviously got his infamous gangster reputation by doing flower arranging and dancing with muppets.

- The CG itself goes out of date very quickly. Lucas may find himself redoing this scene every 5-10 years if he's so desperate to keep the films looking "new".

- The Millenium Falcon is revealed early, and without any fanfare. 2 minutes later, it is revealed with the proper musical build-up and the appropriate reaction from the characters and... Why? Thanks to the Jabba scene, this reveal is now meaningless. We're given a big reveal of something we've already seen!

- Boba Fett. He oh-so-casually strolls into view, stops in the middle of the screen, does a little catwalk turn and then walks off again. Yes George, I'm sure this was part of your original vision too. He may as well have looked right into the camera and winked to his fanclub members.

Bravo - all true. Plus one you forgot. Not that I ever want to defend "Return of the Jedi" but "finally" getting to see Jabba the Hutt instead of hearing about him gave a squeak of anticipation to what would be new in the film...and it turned out to be the only really new thing in it. The Star Wars S/E takes that away too (looking at it from the POV of before TPM came out). Remember that the Greedo scene was only added in because the Jabba scene wasn't working, so that really should have come out entirely if they were going to add Jabba. Even the "think I had a choice" dialogue in the Greedo scene was taken from the Jabba scene...but we weren't supposed to notice because we were supposed to be too busy laughing at Han stepping on Jabba's tail. Hardee-har-har.

[Morlock 11]

The glorious first decade of revisionist cinematic history is complete.

Computor coloring has been going on for quite some time, and it is far more stupid and harmful than anything Lucas did to the SW films.

[robthehand 3]

The glorious first decade of revisionist cinematic history is complete.

Computor coloring has been going on for quite some time, and it is far more stupid and harmful than anything Lucas did to the SW films.

True, but the people who did the colorizing didn't also try and supress the original versions, make up lie after lie to explain why the coloured versions are the definitive versions - take the new colorized DVD's released by Legend - yes, the colorization looks horrible, but they also provide (in the same package) a pristine transfer of the original b/w version - in many cases the best b/w transfer available.

[Morlock 11]

I was only correcting the notion that revisionist cinema started with the SE's. Personally, I'm not such a huge SW fan to care all that much, but I do know that I personally would rather seeing the originals, and I am against the concept, seeing what laughable effect it had on E.T., and I dread what would happen if George came up with the bright idea of touching up Raiders.

[Danielle 0]

I dread what would happen if George came up with the bright idea of touching up Raiders.

Oh god don't even think it, he might hear you!

[Guest macrea]

The E.T. changes were offensive and insulting. I'm so glad that the original was included in the DVD (even though there were some minor sound-changes from the new track added). The sad thing is that I believe it only happened because the 20th anniversary reissue tanked miserably. If it was as big as the Star Wars reissue then maybe we would not have gotten the original. "Superman" did it even more correctly (replacement issue aside): the original version is DISC 1 of the set.

But back OT, a lot of people who'd seen Star Wars a zillion times in the 70's and early 80's had young kids in '97 and loved the idea of seeing it with them...but it wasn't the same film. The beautiful idea of sharing the experience with the next generation was skewed - they were getting something a bit different. Add that to Lucas's list of offenses. But hey -- HE'S happy with the effects now, so that should be more important to us, right?

When there is a success of the level of Star Wars and E.T., it happens because of exactly how the film gets released. When, like those films, it also gets nominated for Best Picture, Screenplay, and Director at the Oscars, it is based on the films as they are released. You just shouldn't screw with a success like that. There are only two possible results... people won't notice, or they'll get pissed off. So therefore what is the point? Is it more important that a few CG-obsessed nitpickers agree with you? Isn't the mass audience's embracing of your vision and your peers' recognition what's really important? Clean it up, restore it, recomposite, etc. The public will praise you for it more than they already have. Isn't that more important than the fact that you had to use puppets twenty years ago for what you do in CG now? A great movie remains great in spite of and sometimes because of how it was executed and only gets better with time.

Tirade over. I agree - the music releases was the best thing to come out of the '97 reissues.

[Morlock 11]

I dread what would happen if George came up with the bright idea of touching up Raiders.

Oh god don't even think it, he might hear you!

Hey, Southpark already did it (in a particularly good episode).

[Danielle 0]

Would I be right in believing that 1 or 2 scenes in the DVD were touched up anyway (I'm thinking the glass that separates Indy and the snake)? And that more were planned but didn't get included in the end?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I've read rumors that the Indy films were going to get something of an overhaul, and that the Free Hat episode of South Park was one of the things that made them change their mind. How extensive this overhaul was going to be I don't know.

But yes, the reflection of the cobra has been taken out, although it's still visible in other shots. And ironically, it is specifically mentioned in one of the documentaries on the bonus disc, including a (non-anamorphic) clip of the scene with the reflection intact.

[Romão 2,274]

I´m a huge Star Wars fan, but calling the last 10 years "a living hell" just because a movie had slight little tweaks that don´t change it in any significant way is bit much.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Slight little tweaks?

[Morlock 11]

Well, it only takes a couple of little edits to have Greedo shoot first.

[Red 75]

Great 10 years!

-Genius, who believes the Hexology is utterly perfect, save for Greedo shooting first.

You must be joking.

BTW, was there ever a valid reason why Lucas had Greedo shoot first?