The Big Bad Star Trek XI Thread

[Morlock 11]

Star Trek simply does not sound to me like having come from the same composer who did Ratatouille, The Incredibles, or seasons 3-5 of Lost.

Well, AOTC and KOTCS doesn't sound to me like having come from the same composer who did Star Wars, Empire, Raiders, Superman, Jaws, yet people around here love them.

Not a great example, as you're saying that you don't understand those people. Star Trek strikes me as very bland compared to Giacchino's best work. Only very rarely could I hear the giddy enthusiasm that distinguished some of his other scores. And I'm at a loss for how some of our smartest and most discerning members are as captivated by it as they are. And, again, I think there's a certain amount of hypocrisy about defending the music because of Giacchino's explanation, which is almost identical to Zimmer and Howard's. How potent the music is just as unaffected by the explanation in both cases- failure has a hundred explanations, success doesn't need any.

[Marian Schedenig 8,240]

I disagree.

I agree.

I have no opinion one way or the other.

Why don't you agree to disagree ?

I'm uncertain.

I'm undecided about spots.

[Henry B 50]

I agree that the score could have benefited from more use of the Courage theme - that particular decision wasn't my favorite. But I suspect it won't be an issue with the sequel.

I beg to differ. The crew had to BECOME the crew in Star Trek. In a sense, they had to ear their stripes.

Think about Casino Royale. They essentially held off of the James Bond Theme until the moment at the end when he BECAME James Bond.

In this film, the Courage Fanfare was held off until Kirk became the Captain, and "Star Trek" really began.

The greatest Star Trek score ever written didn't have the Courage Fanfare, either, but you can't deny that The Motion Picture is any less "Star Trek" without it. It's certainly the film that's most like the TV show, more so than Abrams' movie. So using the "Batman Begins" explanation for why they don't get the theme until the end really doesn't work.

Besides, this movie's not about the beginning of Star Trek as we know it. It's the reinvention of a new Star Trek as we don't know it, so they can sell new adventures, and possibly pawn off some of the old ones along the way.

This is an excellent point, but the Courage theme (though not the fanfare) is heard in 3 places, during the Captain's Log segments, played with the Blaster Beam giving it a dark edge.

That was just the same recording used (and cut) three times. Goldsmith didn't even write it either. He asked Courage to whip something up. It's a nice arrangement, but I don't see it significantly contributing to the score.

I'm fine that Giacchino used only subtle hints of the Courage theme in the score. That's more than Goldsmith ever did, not that it really damaged his scores. I'm not a rigid believer in leitmotif; I think throwing a full-blooded arrangement of the theme at us out of nowhere for the credits had a charm, even if it wasn't "properly" developed beforehand. Even though Giacchino's score has little to do with Courage's theme stylistically, what they do have in common is a sense of unbridled fun. Compare that to the Next Generation TV series and films, in which it's not so much about adventure but noble exploration and peacekeeping. Goldsmith's theme worked for that, but not for the TOS stuff (which is why I've always felt Giacchino shouldn't have used it).

[OneBuckFilms 325]

I'm fine that Giacchino used only subtle hints of the Courage theme in the score. That's more than Goldsmith ever did, not that it really damaged his scores. I'm not a rigid believer in leitmotif; I think throwing a full-blooded arrangement of the theme at us out of nowhere for the credits had a charm, even if it wasn't "properly" developed beforehand. Even though Giacchino's score has little to do with Courage's theme stylistically, what they do have in common is a sense of unbridled fun. Compare that to the Next Generation TV series and films, in which it's not so much about adventure but noble exploration and peacekeeping. Goldsmith's theme worked for that, but not for the TOS stuff (which is why I've always felt Giacchino shouldn't have used it).

Absolutely.

[QMM 4]

Comparing Giacchino's argument to Zimmer/Howard's argument doesn't work for me since it depended on developing the themes from the first movie in TDK, which they didn't really do, as well as making a completely different Batman theme for the sequel. Without the Star Trek sequel, this argument isn't really going to go anywhere.

[Morlock 11]

They're both explaining why their approach contrasted with what many people might have been expecting or hoping for, and I don't think in either case the score they came up with is justified by their explanations.

[QMM 4]

Meh, I've warmed up to the score.

[Morlock 11]

So have I- I like it much better than I once did.

[John Crichton 4]

I'm undecided about spots.

What would Captain Subtext say?

[Marian Schedenig 8,240]

Captain Subtext isn't a real person, John.

[Ollie 1,064]

John gets a little delusional from time to time.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Star Trek on DVD and Blu-Ray - November 17th

This is what I'm looking forward to:

Additionally, the discs feature compelling deleted scenes that reveal a side story involving Nero with a first-ever look at Abrams' version of the infamous warrior Klingons.

[Datameister 2,073]

That'll be nice, but I'm more looking forward to putting together the complete soundtrack!

[OneBuckFilms 325]

That'll be nice, but I'm more looking forward to putting together the complete soundtrack!

"Putting Together"? Do you know something we don't know?

[Datameister 2,073]

Oh, I just meant that I was going to rip the audio from the film and edit the music together with the material on the OST. Although it'll certainly be awesome if there are some featurettes or whatnot that feature clean unreleased music...

[OneBuckFilms 325]

Oh, I just meant that I was going to rip the audio from the film and edit the music together with the material on the OST. Although it'll certainly be awesome if there are some featurettes or whatnot that feature clean unreleased music...

Isolated Score would be fantastic.

[Datameister 2,073]

That would be too good to be true! I've never run across an isolated score DVD that I actually wanted.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

That would be too good to be true! I've never run across an isolated score DVD that I actually wanted.

The Mummy, Rudy, Glory (Region 2)?

But I know what you mean. I think they stopped the practice due to the licensing/piracy issues.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

There are some great ones around. SUPERMAN, ALIEN, THE OMEN (on Blu-Ray).

[Delorean90 42]

A Bug's Life and Stuart Little are great, also.

[Henry B 50]

http://www.the-editing-room.com/star-trek.html

[John Crichton 4]

ZACHARY QUINTO

With him off the ship, our rating in the 18-24 demographic has increased. Rescuing him would be highly illogical.

Best line.

And of course the movie is f'n awesome and therefore immune to anything that can be thrown at it.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

http://www.the-editing-room.com/star-trek.html

Good thing I wasn't drinking coffe, or I'd have sprayed the screen and keyboard !!!

That was FUNNY !!!

[John Crichton 4]

Here's your mandatory vague Comic-Con quote, courtesy AICN:

In a brief exchange with IO9, Roberto Orci implies the next Abramsverse TREK film will either be a cliffhanger thingie, or at the very least contain a significant story element which crosses over two films.

EDIT- More from Trekmovie.com

[Marian Schedenig 8,240]

So this means there will be at least two more? Very good.

Except if they pull an Alias/Lost season finale style cliffhanger and leave us waiting for two years between the movies, the anticipation will kill me.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Eric Bana confirms he will not return for the Star Trek sequel.

Uhh... no shit, he died.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

I think the 2 movie thread idea is kind of a pie-in-the-sky thing at this stage. Very early in the process.

[Hitch 57]

William Shatner to direct the next Trek movie.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

William Shatner to direct the next Trek movie.

This is Damn Peculiar.

Nice try at a rumor though

[Charlie Brigden 7]

That'd be awesome.

I'm still hoping they'll have replaced Nimoy's log reading with Shatner's for the dvd...

[tpigeon 3]

Here's hoping they have an actual director for the next Trek films.

Ted

[Wojo 2,453]

Eric Bana confirms he will not return for the Star Trek sequel.

Uhh... no shit, he died.

So what? It's Star Trek. Nobody's really dead as long as we remember them have corny ways to bring actors back into the fold. Denise Crosby's character died, but came back in via alternate timeline to spawn a half-Romulan offspring. Maybe Eric Bana's character can return via alternate timeline to sire a half-human offspring.

[Ollie 1,064]

I think we've worked the alternate timeline /time travel thing to death.

[John Crichton 4]

Yes indeed. Bring on the Klingons!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think we've worked the alternate timeline /time travel thing to death.

Yes!

Let's just have a temporal linear adventure this time!

[John Crichton 4]

Linear time...what is this?

[Quintus 5,399]

As long as it has a vortex of some sort, I'm happy.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

Here's hoping they have an actual director for the next Trek films.

Ted

Erm, you mean the one that assembled a team to restart the franchise and make Trek "Cool" again?

The one who dared to use a well defined visual style to the movie?

Erm, that "actual director"?

[Wojo 2,453]

Some people are just sore because Abrams' Star Trek is not "their" Star Trek.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

Very true, Wojo.

[Quintus 5,399]

Here's hoping they have an actual director for the next Trek films.

Ted

Erm, you mean the one that assembled a team to restart the franchise and make Trek "Cool" again?

The one who dared to use a well defined visual style to the movie?

Erm, that "actual director"?

Some people are just sore because Abrams' Star Trek is not "their" Star Trek.

The thing I find most interesting (and entertaining) is the fact that Abram's managed to make Trek fans argue amongst themselves.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

The thing I find most interesting (and entertaining) is the fact that Abram's managed to make Trek fans argue amongst themselves.

To be honest, they've been doing that since way before JJ hit the scene. Notably when TNG came on the scene.

[Wojo 2,453]

If there are die-hard old-school 'Trek fans who believe that the franchise died with Roddenberry, then there's nothing that Abrams can do to stop the bickering. It's a runaway train of nerd-dom gone crazy.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It must evolve. Star Trek has reached the limits of our known universe and it must evolve!

[Quintus 5,399]

The thing I find most interesting (and entertaining) is the fact that Abrams managed to make Trek fans argue amongst themselves.

To be honest, they've been doing that since way before JJ hit the scene. Notably when TNG came on the scene.

Oh I'm not disputing that at all.

Abrams succeeded in many ways, but in one thing he succeeded the most: separating the nerds from the fans of Film. At last.

Abrams is the reason why regular cinema goers said "the new Star Trek rocked!" without feeling embarrassed. If the Trekkies of the world depise that fact then fuck 'em. Their loss is everyone elses gain.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Rick Berman has caused more inter-Trek arguments than Abrams could ever dream of.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

I've been a Trek fan since I was about 2 (making the Whoosh sound as the Enterprise passed the camera during the opening credits of the Original Series).

Unfortunately, there are some Trek fans that seem almost scary in their vitriolic hatred of Rick Berman, despite the fact that he had one hell of a run as the showrunner for years.

I can see the same happening to JJ Abrams. Kind of a vocal minority hating on the man/woman who "ruined" or "destroyed" Star Trek.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Berman's talent came in the people he hired. He worked it well when he was in the background, but his own ideas, especially on the movies, did pretty much kill the franchise until Abrams came along.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He did seem to have very little hands-on involvement in DS9 after it's first season on 2.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

He did seem to have very little hands-on involvement in DS9 after it's first season on 2.

Coincidentally when it suddenly got really good.