WotW Reference in IJ4

[Taikomochi 1,136]

[i looked for another thread, so sorry if this is the second]

I was listening to "Hidden Treasure and The City of Gold", and at 3:21, it sounds exactly like "The Intersection Scene" where the Tripod rises from the crater.

Has anyone else noticed this?

[Josh500 1,615]

Sure!

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Sure!

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not....

[Josh500 1,615]

I did notice it. That was your question, wasn't it?

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I did notice it. That was your question, wasn't it?

Yes, I just get lots of uninterpretable sarcasm across forums.

I thought maybe that meant "No, you silly dunderhead!"

Anyways...

I'm guessing since the skull is supposedly of Alien origin, it maybe means an alien siting...

^Don't click if you have stayed far enough away not to know the skull's origins^

[Quintus 5,399]

I didn't look at the probably spoilerific text above.

Anyway, I pointed out the similarities of the post's question in the Indy score thread a few days ago; where it was relevant.

We really do not need a thread just for this one thing.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

oh taikomochi, you have me quoted in your signature (and not for a joke), i'm very happy

[Taikomochi 1,136]

oh taikomochi, you have me quoted in your signature (and not for a joke), i'm very happy

[Although, this is very off topic]

I wouldn't say it if it weren't SO true.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

back on topic. I have yet to hear this cue (and the other...)

[King Mark 3,631]

It ends better than in WotW though

[Taikomochi 1,136]

It ends better than in WotW though

Definitely! Although, most every cue is entriely better than WotW

[ChrisAfonso 186]

I just listened to it, and found the track amazing! The buildup of the skull theme in the first half, and then the passage with the WotW motif... and how he takes it to this amazing climax... well, the Intersecton scene is one of my absolute favorite parts of WotW, so I really dig this...

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Yeah, the only parts of WotW I find memorably were The Intersection Scene and Confrontation With Ogilvy.

Definitely nice to see him using that, but we'll have to wait to see what imagery accompanies this to see if it was intentional or not.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I already pointed this out in the big thread, and no-one heard me. Grrr.

[Ollie 1,059]

Apparently people just feel the need to post KOTCS threads without even bothering to look at the ones that exist that have the same discussions going.

[Josh500 1,615]

I'm starting to wonder . . . is what JW did a "deliberate" reference to another Spielberg movie, to wit WotW? Or did he use that similar motif without having the connection in his mind? I think the former is more likely, but we'll have to see it in the movie, of course.

Yeah, the only parts of WotW I find memorably were The Intersection Scene and Confrontation With Ogilvy.

Although WotW is definitely NOT my favorite JW score, I enjoy the tracks you mentioned plus Prologue, Epilogue, Escape from the City and The Ferry Scene!

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

I'm starting to wonder . . . is what JW did a "deliberate" reference to another Spielberg movie, to wit WotW? Or did he use that similar motif without having the connection in his mind? I think the former is more likely, but we'll have to see it in the movie, of course.

Yeah, the only parts of WotW I find memorably were The Intersection Scene and Confrontation With Ogilvy.

Although WotW is definitely NOT my favorite JW score, I enjoy the tracks you mentioned plus Prologue, Epilogue, Escape from the City and The Ferry Scene!

Although WotW is definitely one of my favorite JW score, I too enjoy the tracks you mentioned...

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'd enjoy "Prologue" and "Epilogue" much better if they didn't have that narration, regardless of how much people defend Freeman's voice.

[Lurker 5]

There are two possibilities: either Williams doesn't remember WOTW or he hopes no one else remembers WOTW.

Neil

[King Mark 3,631]

He cannot hide the truth from us

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It means KotCS is a prequel to WOTW.

[Josh500 1,615]

I too love that section in KotCS. I love the way it builds and builds to a frenetic level... WAAAAAAARGGGGGGG!!!!!

There are two possibilities: either Williams doesn't remember WOTW or he hopes no one else remembers WOTW.

Neil

The most likely possibility (to me, at least) is that he remembers the score and he made a deliberate not-too-subtle reference to Spielberg's only badass-aliens-kicking-our-asses movie.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

It starts out as the bit from WotW and then develops into something really much better. So far this is one of the parts of the soundtrack I like best. I'll be interested to see in the movie if there's any indication that the use of the music from WotW is deliberate.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

It means KotCS is a prequel to WOTW.

err.. the scrystal skulls seems to fit the heads of the WOTW aliens...but those didnt had teeth.

Phew!

[King Mark 3,631]

I think Spielberg is making a kind of a thematic progression in his alien designs over the span of his movies,so I wouldn't be surprised if there is a design connection with WotW

[Ollie 1,059]

What it tells me is that the film more than likely temped with that piece or Williams had a problem coming up with something so he "borrowed" from another score or he liked the pieced and decided to re-visit it.

[Bowie 45]

Actually, I'm starting to believe that this is a deliberate reference. We all know what Lucas/Spielberg/Williams are like with cross-referencing their films, visually and musically.

[Josh500 1,615]

Actually, I'm starting to believe that this is a deliberate reference. We all know what Lucas/Spielberg/Williams are like with cross-referencing their films, visually and musically.

I think so too. Either that, or it really IS a coincidence JW having forgotten about that particular cue from WotW. But honestly I can't believe that, considering extra-terrestrials feature in this latest Indy installment as well.

[franzridesagain 0]

There's another connection that would suggest the reference is deliberate:

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/post...1&archive=0

"It seems there's a very interesting connection between WAR OF THE WORLDS and this new INDY score, and not just the 'Intersection Scene' music. That lift clued me in as to where to look for that other familiar aspect of the score, the Crystal music itself. At first I thought it reminded me of THE FURY, and the general dramatic shape of 'Call of the Crystal' does, but perhaps the basic building blocks of it are more recent.

Take a listen to the WAR OF THE WORLDS 'Prologue'. Not long before Morgan Freeman's narration enters, before the 4/4 rhythm picks up, we begin to hear upper register electronic phrases that are reminiscent of the descending motif from 'Call of the Crystal'. Then just after the rhythm picks up in the strings, we hear an ascending arpeggio, and then the electronic instrumentation features a 5-note motif. I wish I could give a timecode, but I only have a dialogue free version of the track at hand. This motif appears throughout the 'Prologue', and appears later in the 'Epilogue'.

Anyway, listen to the upper-register motif ('The Call') from 'Call of the Crystal', about 0:35-0:45 (the second statement). The shape is VERY similar - though a little more developed - than that upper register electronic motif from WAR OF THE WORLDS. The tone colour is reminiscent as well. It's a motif that's used quite distinctly from the rising tritone bass motif that opens 'Call of the Crystal'. (That rising tritone motif seems like the opening of the Ark theme upside down.)

Fast forward to 'The Departure', 1:58-2:03. The 'call' half of the Crystal music is given a resplendant statement for trumpet, but it's shape has been simplified. It's now almost identical to the motif from the 'Prologue' of WAR OF THE WORLDS.

*** POTENTIAL SPOILER**** Perhaps another strong hint that what is departing is integral to the identity of the Crystal, and has a link to the aggressors of WAR OF THE WORLDS? *** END POT. SPOILER ****

"

EDIT - How I didn't notice that a rather similar motif appears in CLOSE ENCOUNTERS is beyond me. Of course.

[Hlao-roo 389]

There's another connection that would suggest the reference is deliberate:

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/post...1&archive=0

"It seems there's a very interesting connection between WAR OF THE WORLDS and this new INDY score, and not just the 'Intersection Scene' music. That lift clued me in as to where to look for that other familiar aspect of the score, the Crystal music itself. At first I thought it reminded me of THE FURY, and the general dramatic shape of 'Call of the Crystal' does, but perhaps the basic building blocks of it are more recent.

Take a listen to the WAR OF THE WORLDS 'Prologue'. Not long before Morgan Freeman's narration enters, before the 4/4 rhythm picks up, we begin to hear upper register electronic phrases that are reminiscent of the descending motif from 'Call of the Crystal'. Then just after the rhythm picks up in the strings, we hear an ascending arpeggio, and then the electronic instrumentation features a 5-note motif. I wish I could give a timecode, but I only have a dialogue free version of the track at hand. This motif appears throughout the 'Prologue', and appears later in the 'Epilogue'.

Anyway, listen to the upper-register motif ('The Call') from 'Call of the Crystal', about 0:35-0:45 (the second statement). The shape is VERY similar - though a little more developed - than that upper register electronic motif from WAR OF THE WORLDS. The tone colour is reminiscent as well. It's a motif that's used quite distinctly from the rising tritone bass motif that opens 'Call of the Crystal'. (That rising tritone motif seems like the opening of the Ark theme upside down.)

Fast forward to 'The Departure', 1:58-2:03. The 'call' half of the Crystal music is given a resplendant statement for trumpet, but it's shape has been simplified. It's now almost identical to the motif from the 'Prologue' of WAR OF THE WORLDS.

*** POTENTIAL SPOILER**** Perhaps another strong hint that what is departing is integral to the identity of the Crystal, and has a link to the aggressors of WAR OF THE WORLDS? *** END POT. SPOILER ****

"

Hi, Michael. I enjoy reading your stuff on various boards. Your Cinemusic review of The Golden Compass is a particularly interesting read.

[franzridesagain 0]

You have named me by my real name?! But how did you see through my elaborate disguise?

Seriously though - thanks for mentioning. Good to know it had some readers!

A bit off-topic, but I did actually rewrite that review after I saw the film, and it was posted at a GOLDEN COMPASS-themed website:

http://www.hisdarkmaterials.org/opinions/r...soundtrack-pt-1

http://www.hisdarkmaterials.org/opinions/r...soundtrack-pt-2

It turns out I wasn't that far off even with the track-by-track stuff, but there were some points where I was way off. Seeing the film always makes a difference.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Fascinating.

[franzridesagain 0]

There's another connection that would suggest the reference is deliberate:

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/post...1&archive=0

"It seems there's a very interesting connection between WAR OF THE WORLDS and this new INDY score, and not just the 'Intersection Scene' music. That lift clued me in as to where to look for that other familiar aspect of the score, the Crystal music itself. At first I thought it reminded me of THE FURY, and the general dramatic shape of 'Call of the Crystal' does, but perhaps the basic building blocks of it are more recent.

Take a listen to the WAR OF THE WORLDS 'Prologue'. Not long before Morgan Freeman's narration enters, before the 4/4 rhythm picks up, we begin to hear upper register electronic phrases that are reminiscent of the descending motif from 'Call of the Crystal'. Then just after the rhythm picks up in the strings, we hear an ascending arpeggio, and then the electronic instrumentation features a 5-note motif. I wish I could give a timecode, but I only have a dialogue free version of the track at hand. This motif appears throughout the 'Prologue', and appears later in the 'Epilogue'.

Anyway, listen to the upper-register motif ('The Call') from 'Call of the Crystal', about 0:35-0:45 (the second statement). The shape is VERY similar - though a little more developed - than that upper register electronic motif from WAR OF THE WORLDS. The tone colour is reminiscent as well. It's a motif that's used quite distinctly from the rising tritone bass motif that opens 'Call of the Crystal'. (That rising tritone motif seems like the opening of the Ark theme upside down.)

Fast forward to 'The Departure', 1:58-2:03. The 'call' half of the Crystal music is given a resplendant statement for trumpet, but it's shape has been simplified. It's now almost identical to the motif from the 'Prologue' of WAR OF THE WORLDS.

*** POTENTIAL SPOILER**** Perhaps another strong hint that what is departing is integral to the identity of the Crystal, and has a link to the aggressors of WAR OF THE WORLDS? *** END POT. SPOILER ****

"

EDIT - How I didn't notice that a rather similar motif appears in CLOSE ENCOUNTERS is beyond me. Of course.

The timecode for the album version of the WAR OF THE WORLDS 'Prologue' is 1:17-1:19. Of course the upper register instrumentation hovers around that motif before that in the cue, but that's the clearest appearance of the motif from CRYSTAL SKULL.

[MissPadmé 17]

I also think it was ment as an funny "insider" joke hell... there even was a Raider's quote in Harry Potter 3!

[Hlao-roo 389]

I suppose it's fun speculating about the intentionality or motivation behind a particular quote. You sort of wonder whether this comes from the "how to score

aliens

" cul-de-sac in Williams's brain, or whether he's really as sly or mischievous as some of us are guessing here.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

It means KotCS is a prequel to WOTW.

And Mutt is Tom Cruise's dad..

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It means KotCS is a prequel to WOTW.

And Mutt is Tom Cruise's dad..

And there are hieroglyphics of C-3PO and R2-D2 in the background in Raiders, clearly meaning Indy and SW are the same universe, also connected to E.T., who had members in the Galactic Senate in TPM!

So...

War of the Worlds/Indiana Jones/Star Wars/E.T. are all a part of the same continuum!

[MissPadmé 17]

It means KotCS is a prequel to WOTW.

And Mutt is Tom Cruise's dad..

And there are hieroglyphics of C-3PO and R2-D2 in the background in Raiders, clearly meaning Indy and SW are the same universe, also connected to E.T., who had members in the Galactic Senate in TPM!

So...

War of the Worlds/Indiana Jones/Star Wars/E.T. are all a part of the same continuum!

Yes and E.T. and Yoda where on Earth at the same time.. and Yoda even used a miniature of E.T.s spaceship to escape from Kashyk. And ObiWan has a Club in ShangHai This must be the greatest mythological story of all time!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

And of course, Indy and Han are related somehow.

[MissPadmé 17]

And of course, Indy and Han are related somehow.

Yes and Walter Donavan also was an imperial commander once.. man this could go on forver

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

And of course, Indy and Han are related somehow.

Yes and Walter Donavan also was an imperial commander once.. man this could go on forver

the soldier in the Last Crusade tank was also Jedi master Cin Drallig (nick Gillard)

[Jacob 0]

I also think it was ment as an funny "insider" joke hell... there even was a Raider's quote in Harry Potter 3!

What what? What's this?

[Josh500 1,615]

I also think it was ment as an funny "insider" joke hell... there even was a Raider's quote in Harry Potter 3!

What what? What's this?

Hahaha, what the heck are you talking about?

[Jacob 0]

Is there a Raiders quote in Azkaban?

Or am I just being joked?

[Henry B 50]

No, there isn't. There's a horn figure that's coincidentally similar, that's all. I think it's in "The Portraits Gallery" or something.

[Josh500 1,615]

No, there isn't. There's a horn figure that's coincidentally similar, that's all. I think it's in "The Portraits Gallery" or something.

Where? Can you give me the exact time?

[Henry B 50]

I think I made it clear that I don't remember exactly where it is (nor do I care).

[Josh500 1,615]

I think I made it clear that I don't remember exactly where it is (nor do I care).

What a grump!

Why mention it if you neither remember nor care?

[Henry B 50]

Because I'm at least putting forth the information that there is no intentional Raiders quote in Azkaban. If you want to hear it you can easily do so yourself.

[Jacob 0]

No, there isn't. There's a horn figure that's coincidentally similar, that's all. I think it's in "The Portraits Gallery" or something.

Ah, thank you.