It's that time again! We've all had time to reflect...

[Jeshopk 8]

The ONLY reason Star Wars has enjoyed greater financial success is because it is marketed and geared towards children, thereby making the movies accessible to the widest age ranges. If a kid wants to see a movie...mom and daddy will go along. 3 tickets...for one person. Simple film industry knowledge.

If you will let children be your judges of film quality, then I humbly call you idiots. Next up tell me Jar Jar is the coolest dude in the world.

When children aren't force fed crap like Barney, Hillary Duff etc. they actually have really good taste. Back in the days when PG really meant PG and not G, kids had great taste. JAWS, Raiders, Star Wars, Clash of the Titans, Poltergeist. Yes, those were the glory days for the younglings.. I blame Nancy Reagan. No reason to, I just do.

To a kid, Jar Jar is just another character that's here and gone in a good movie, not a childhood raping monster. If we could all have such perpective.

The true sage lives as though the wheel of Karma does not exist!

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Nearly dead. There was no mainstream interest in the franchise.

You are 100% wrong about that -- so much so that you're edging close to idiocy.

Trust the people who were alive, cognizant, and reasonably intelligent during those years: Star Wars was vital the entire time. There was no dropoff in popularity whatsoever; Jedi actually made more money than Empire, and was generally VERY well-liked. So stop pulling things out of your ass in a lame attempt to try and sound knowledgeable -- on this subject, you obviously aren't.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

blume are you trying to be as ignorant as Morlock? Star Wars films weren't marked just towards kids, they were marked towards everyone, I was there, I remember it well. granted the licencing of tie in products was mostly geared towards children, or the children inside us, but there are lots of adult Star Wars products.

[Wesker 0]

but there are lots of adult Star Wars products.

There were a few, but most weren't exactly Einstein-worthy. I mean, the Cloud City Vibrator wasn't exactly a smash hit, but I guess most people wanted to forget about that one, and very quickly.

Kind of went out the window, along with the Christmas special.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

"Cloud City Vibrator" ????

[Wesker 0]

"Cloud City Vibrator" ????

They reached the height (and end) of their popularity back in the mid eighties. Many a good man lost his wife to those damn contraptions.

In all seriousness, it was but a joke. I just played upon Joey's comment of adult Star Wars products, and thus, the Cloud City Vibrator emerged. My sense of humor is...a bit off at times

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

blume are you trying to be as ignorant as Morlock? Star Wars films weren't marked just towards kids, they were marked towards everyone, I was there, I remember it well. granted the licencing of tie in products was mostly geared towards children, or the children inside us, but there are lots of adult Star Wars products.

Lucas pitched the movie to studios as a movie geared towards the 8-12 demographic. Charles Lippincott was handed the the reins to marketing and it was he (as any good financially savvy marketer would) who tried to expand the campaign into more of a lowest-common denominator campaign to get the common man.

P.S. Living through something, doesn't mean one is automatically endowed with knowledge of what happened, especially as memory degrades the farther you get from it.

[Romão 2,274]

Even Alice in Wonderland and the Little Prince can be seen as children's stories, and does not lessen their impact in anyway.

No movie franchise can compare to the Star Wars OT in terms of popularity, influence, cultural impact, fan following. It's simply on a league of its own.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

No movie franchise can compare to the Star Wars OT in terms of popularity, influence, cultural impact, fan following. It's simply on a league of its own.

I mostly agree with that, and I definitely agree in terms of a comparison with The Lord of the Rings, but I also feel obliged to point out that the James Bond franchise is extremely strong in all those respects - -popularity, influence, cultural impact, and fan following -- and has been without a break since 1962.

I think Wolverine's skeleton may be made out of the James Bond franchise.

[Quintus 5,399]

Lucas pitched the movie to studios as a movie geared towards the 8-12 demographic.

I don't know what all the confusion is about to be honest. It's obvious that Lucas was aiming to please everyone when he made SW.

His oft quoted and unconvincing comments that he geared them exclusively towards children is purely a counter to the adults who choose to rip his movies to shreds.

Lucas never takes criticism on the chin; his ability to deflect, redirect and thin out undesirable commentary on his portly cash cow is almost as legendary as the trilogy itself.

[Desplat13 1]

About the whole aimed at children thing...

Beauty and the Beast blows both of them out of the water.

[Ollie 1,059]

But in the end, as Alex always points out, it's all about Pinnochio.

[Henry B 50]

Nearly dead. There was no mainstream interest in the franchise.

You are 100% wrong about that -- so much so that you're edging close to idiocy.

Trust the people who were alive, cognizant, and reasonably intelligent during those years: Star Wars was vital the entire time. There was no dropoff in popularity whatsoever; Jedi actually made more money than Empire, and was generally VERY well-liked. So stop pulling things out of your ass in a lame attempt to try and sound knowledgeable -- on this subject, you obviously aren't.

Ouch.

I used to be a huge Star Wars nerd and read Star Wars Insider magazine. Several articles from it talked about the waning popularity of the franchise in the late 80s and its near irrelevance until the Timothy Zahn books in 1991 (I think) revived it. I'm sure I've read similar things elsewhere.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Nearly dead. There was no mainstream interest in the franchise.

You are 100% wrong about that -- so much so that you're edging close to idiocy.

Trust the people who were alive, cognizant, and reasonably intelligent during those years: Star Wars was vital the entire time. There was no dropoff in popularity whatsoever; Jedi actually made more money than Empire, and was generally VERY well-liked. So stop pulling things out of your ass in a lame attempt to try and sound knowledgeable -- on this subject, you obviously aren't.

Ouch.

I used to be a huge Star Wars nerd and read Star Wars Insider magazine. Several articles from it talked about the waning popularity of the franchise in the late 80s and its near irrelevance until the Timothy Zahn books in 1991 (I think) revived it. I'm sure I've read similar things elsewhere.

I suppose the "waning popularity" explains why it sold a bajillion VHS tapes, and why there was such a huge demand for the Zahn novels to begin with, and why the rerelease of Star Wars was able to make as much money as it made.

Now, sure, any film franchise that isn't actively producing new films is going to be seen as less popular than it used to be, but that doesn't make it true. It just means that there is less product for people to spend money on; therefore, not as much money can be spent.

Sorry if I was insulting in my previous posts -- but the notion that Return of the Jedi marked the decline of Star Wars in mass popularity is just off-base.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

This argument is still going on?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

No movie franchise can compare to the Star Wars OT in terms of popularity, influence, cultural impact, fan following. It's simply on a league of its own.

This would be sufficent proof of your words. I'm not sure it's a good thing, though.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

No movie franchise can compare to the Star Wars OT in terms of popularity, influence, cultural impact, fan following. It's simply on a league of its own.

This would be sufficent proof of your words. I'm not sure it's a good thing, though.

That looks pretty cool!

[Ollie 1,059]

What, no trash monster?

I believe that at the time of ROTJ's release that most people felt Star Wars should take a rest. Kenner/Hasbro was going to continue with a new line of figures based on a new villian but it never came to light.

[Romão 2,274]

I've pre ordered a it a few days ago actually

And Mark, you can see the Dianoga's eye peeking through the garbage. He's there, trust me

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Now all that's needed to push this discussion over the edge is the question in how far Star Wars was based on Tolkien's LOTR in the first place ...

[Quintus 5,399]

Now all that's needed to push this discussion over the edge is the question in how far Star Wars was based on Tolkien's LOTR in the first place ...

I'm sure Manuel will be in here any moment now to tell you that both stories share elements of The Hero's Journey, thus undermining any claim that Lucas copied Tolkien. Which we all know he did anyway.

"Run Luke, Run!"

"Fly you fools!"

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I think Willow it more a blatant rip off of LOTR.

Yet amazingly a story on its own.

[Morlock 11]

...made into a terrible, terrible movie.

[Quintus 5,399]

The only two things that make Willow a little more like LotR than Star Wars are the obvious fantasy setting and the big bloody midgets running around everywhere.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Now all that's needed to push this discussion over the edge is the question in how far Star Wars was based on Tolkien's LOTR in the first place ...

Quite a bit obviously - and by that, quite a bit from Germanic/Norse mythology and some Wagner. Although Tolkien himself claimed the two Rings didn't have anything in common, at the very least they were combinations of the same sources (and a lot of the same sources, too).

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Now all that's needed to push this discussion over the edge is the question in how far Star Wars was based on Tolkien's LOTR in the first place ...

except thats not true at all

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

It may be not true in as far as Star Wars is by no means a copy of LOTR, but denying LOTR's impact on the films seems a little blind to me.

Tolkien's story is the most influential fantasy tale of the century, and arguing that borders folly. It's as silly as saying Harry Potter isn't influenced by Tolkien.

That's why I love the bit in ROTK where the dying Theoden tells Eowyn "You already have!" It pays hommage to a great moment in movie history, and yet remembers me that LOTR was there way before Star Wars.

a little more like LotR than Star Wars are the obvious fantasy setting

The six films are set in a fictive galaxy, with fictive cities and fictive creatures - that's not fantasy?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I think he specifically meant high fantasy...

[Wojo 2,453]

Until someone comes up with a way to have Star Wars and Lord of the Rings duke it out on equal grounds, all this question offers is something for the members of this board, fans of popular culture, and passionate geeks worldwide something to debate about for generations to come...

Star Wars vs Star Trek

Star Wars vs LOTR

LOTR vs Harry Potter

Star Trek vs Babylon V

LOTR vs DND

ad infinitum...

[Quintus 5,399]

John Williams vs Jerry Goldsmith

[Wojo 2,453]

ad nauseum...

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

LOTR vs DND

What the hell is DND?

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Perhaps D&D... in that case, most of it was indeed directly based on LOTR.

[Wojo 2,453]

I meant D&D. I heard that really fast in my head and typed DND instead of D&D.

Sorry Jerry Stiller.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

DND instead of D&D

Thanks, that helps me alot ....

[Quintus 5,399]

Don't pretend you don't know what D&D means.

[Wojo 2,453]

Don't pretend you don't know how to use Wikipedia, either.

I'm not saying I ever played Dungeons and Dragons, but I'm familiar with it, and I played a bit of Neverwinter Nights (not enough to get hooked).

[Quintus 5,399]

I've never played D&D, but I know what it is nonetheless. Of course I do, I was a kid of the '80s. D&D was as much a part of western '80s culture as Steven Spielberg was. You didn't convince anyone Fatty!

[Bryant Burnette 654]

I've never played D&D, but I know what it is nonetheless. Of course I do, I was a kid of the '80s. D&D was as much a part of western '80s culture as Steven Spielberg was. You didn't convince anyone Fatty!

Well, Quint, I think that makes you and me the only two childsren of the '80s who didn't play D&D obsessively.

Like you, I was definitely aware of it -- in my case, possibly through E.T. And I had friends who got into it; it just always seemed like a waste of time to me. I was an Atari kid, so card games just seemed like time better spent on Asteroids. Not that it mattered; I sucked at Asteroids, and still do.

[Quintus 5,399]

Indeed, though I was more a Spectrum 48k and C64 kid, rather than the 'console' stuff, available at the time

One thing I did try out though was the D&D (Ian Livingstone and ...Jackson?) Role Playing adventure books. The kind that said stuff like "If you choose to fight the giant spider, turn to page 47, or if you choose to flee, turn to page 84"! They were fun, but I cheated all the way through 'em, as I remember.

[John Crichton 4]

I've never played D&D, but I know what it is nonetheless. Of course I do, I was a kid of the '80s. D&D was as much a part of western '80s culture as Steven Spielberg was. You didn't convince anyone Fatty!

Well, Quint, I think that makes you and me the only two childsren of the '80s who didn't play D&D obsessively.

Three.

The closest I've gotten to D&D is Knights of the Old Republic, the character/battle system is based on D&D rules like all BioWare games.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Indeed, though I was more a Spectrum 48k and C64 kid, rather than the 'console' stuff, available at the time

One thing I did try out though was the D&D (Ian Livingstone and ...Jackson?) Role Playing adventure books. The kind that said stuff like "If you choose to fight the giant spider, turn to page 47, or if you choose to flee, turn to page 84"! They were fun, but I cheated all the way through 'em, as I remember.

I never read any of those, but I'd pitch a durn tent over a Choose Your Own Adventure book. Those were cool ideas, and fairly effective at getting kids to read who never read anything that wasn't assigned to them.

I always thought that somebody might try to make a movie version of one of those and put it out on DVD. The technology is definitely there to support it.

[Quintus 5,399]

Very true, surely it has already been done. Didn't the 'Atmosphere' dvd board game do that sort of thing? I'm probably wrong.

[John Crichton 4]

I never read any of those, but I'd pitch a durn tent over a Choose Your Own Adventure book.

Yes! I read the ones I had so often that I practically had every scenario memorized.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

the character/battle system is based on D&D rules like all BioWare games.

The excellent Mass Effect isn't, neither is their upcoming Dragon Age.

[John Crichton 4]

Like all BioWare games until Mass Effect then. Smart a#^$.

I'm really looking forward to checking out Mass Effect, I just can't afford a new $50 game right now. And I think season 2 of Sam & Max has priority over it.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Mass Effect is gobsmackingly awesome....I won't call it the best game ever made outright, but its definitely comfortably up there in the top with Deus Ex and Half Life 2.

[Ollie 1,059]

I've never played D&D, but I know what it is nonetheless. Of course I do, I was a kid of the '80s. D&D was as much a part of western '80s culture as Steven Spielberg was. You didn't convince anyone Fatty!

Well, Quint, I think that makes you and me the only two childsren of the '80s who didn't play D&D obsessively.

Like you, I was definitely aware of it -- in my case, possibly through E.T. And I had friends who got into it; it just always seemed like a waste of time to me. I was an Atari kid, so card games just seemed like time better spent on Asteroids. Not that it mattered; I sucked at Asteroids, and still do.

Count me in as well. I stayed away from D&D.

-Mark, who thought this thread was about Star Wars and LOTR?

[John Crichton 4]

One geek subject to another. It happens.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Move along.