These days, the Indy 4 score is...

[Guest macrea]

The answer I really wanted wasn't there, but then JWFan doesn't allow that kind of language.

[Incanus 5,736]

Last option. Though I haven't actually been listening to a ton of scores recently, I listened to some of it last night, and thought it was great. I would agree that Mutt's theme is overused and both Irina's and the Skull's are underused, but I still love it. Irina's theme in "The Jungle Chase" are some of the best moments John Williams has had for a while.

Ahem. The Skull theme is the back bone of the score and is heard on almost half of the album tracks in one guise or another. And I mean both the 3 note Call of the Crystal motif and the melodic line associated with the Skull. Mutt's theme is heard about 3 times (Jungle Chase, Whirl through the Academe and the concert suite) and in some subtle quotes in some cues or orchestration both in film and on the album. Irina's theme could have been included on the album more though. So I don't think you can say Mutt's theme is overused or the Crystal Skull theme underused.

Oh and yes the last option. I listen to it very often and with great joy.

[Guest seventiesfilmnut]

I don't post here very often (shame on me!) but I felt compelled to for this poll. I think the score is fantastic, my only complaint is the sequencing of the tracks - rearranged to fit the flow of the narrative in the film it seems more cohesive. As usual alot of the other interesting stuff is only to be heard in the film, so I daresay we'll have to wait for the DVD release to hear ALL the music and truly get a feel for the core as a whole.

While not up to the standards of Raiders (what COULD be?!?) I really think this score is one of the best he's done in recent times - sounds like he had FUN with it. Even thought this website is named jwFAN.com it seems many just want to rip his recent scores to pieces... Mr Williams cannot deliver a score as good as Raiders or Doom because - HEY! - it's ALREADY been done!!! He's already given us all that wonderful music, and now - in 2008! - we have MORE Indy music and a new film!!! I for one have been cherishing every second of this new soundtrack. They're all getting on in years so this may well be the last Indy soundtrack we hear from Mr Williams - we should all be thankful!

Off to listen to the score again

- 7FN

[Josh500 1,615]

Josh, did you mean to create this poll on the 100th day of Indy 4's existence to the public? If not that's a pretty neat concidence.

You serious??? I had no idea...

[Quintus 5,399]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that Indy IV is possibly JW's weakest score ever, for a blockbuster. It was the musical equivalent of The Phantom Menace - A MASSIVE let down. The biggest let down of JW's career.

[Josh500 1,615]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that Indy IV is possibly JW's weakest score ever, for a blockbuster. It was the musical equivalent of The Phantom Menace - A MASSIVE let down. The biggest let down of JW's career.

You don't seem to realize that MASSIVE LETDOWN doesn't equal BAD SCORE. It's only a massive letdown for some because expectations were too high. But that doesn't make it a bad score per se. In fact, KotCS is certainly one of JW's best works... by ANY standards. How anyone can call it a bad (or even mediocre) score is beyond me.

[Quintus 5,399]

But I never said it was a bad score...

[Josh500 1,615]

But I never said it was a bad score...

"His weakest score," then.

[Luke Skywalker 1,813]

musical equivalent of The Phantom Menace - A MASSIVE let down.

TPM is regarded as a Williams masterpiece by many.

The movie can be a letdown, but the score didnt.

[Marian Schedenig 8,272]

In fact, KotCS is certainly one of JW's best works... by ANY standards.

It's not a *bad* score, but it's hardly among his best scores. In fact, I fail to see what makes some people rank it among his better ones.

[Josh500 1,615]

In fact, KotCS is certainly one of JW's best works... by ANY standards.

It's not a *bad* score, but it's hardly among his best scores. In fact, I fail to see what makes some people rank it among his better ones.

That, I can tell you.

A Whirl Through Academe, The Adventures of Mutt, The Jungle Chase, The Departure, and Finale contain some of the best (action) writing JW has ever done.

Also, Irina's Theme and The Call of the Crystal are quite original and masterful.

[John Crichton 4]

A Whirl Through Academe, The Adventures of Mutt, The Jungle Chase, The Departure, and Finale contain some of the best (action) writing JW has ever done.

Er...

The Adventures of Mutt is a very good concert piece, it's my favorite of the concert suites and one of my favorite tracks for Indy 4. A Whirl Through Academe, Ants, and The Snake Pit are fun listens, but no more, there's nothing really special about them. The Jungle Chase is the only one that approaches classic Williams, I'm looking forward to trying to rip the whole thing from the DVD. The Departure is decent enough, and I do really like the end credits suite.

[King Mark 3,631]

The Call of the Crystal is a great track too ,and there's a few other ones.

I't not a MASSIVE letdown ,just a slight one. And TPM is a masterpiece

[Marian Schedenig 8,272]

A Whirl Through Academe, The Adventures of Mutt, The Jungle Chase, The Departure, and Finale contain some of the best (action) writing JW has ever done.

I really fail to see that. Most of the action music sounds simply empty... neither inspired nor accomplished. Like an academic attempt at scoring a cartoon, but without much effort.

[Richard Penna 3,783]

I wouldn't say that any of it is especially bad or outstandingly good. For me it's just another Williams score with a couple of cues that rise above the rest.

I don't think I've ever seen a Williams score (and the movie) get such a mixed reaction from his own fans.

[pixie_twinkle 49]

Option 2. I listened to it many times in the build up to the movie being released. Now, however, I'd rather listen to the first three Indy scores.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,267]

I know I'm not the only one, some other people here think alike (some of them well versed musicians, by the way).

Is that not irellevant?

Music should not be made for musicians, but for everyone.

[Red 75]

I wouldn't say that any of it is especially bad or outstandingly good. For me it's just another Williams score with a couple of cues that rise above the rest.

I don't think I've ever seen a Williams score (and the movie) get such a mixed reaction from his own fans.

Maybe it's just that it's Indiana Jones, something that has a lot of personal meaning to many fans. Or it could be that in Williams' dry spell some people just stopped caring as much.

[Quintus 5,399]

But I never said it was a bad score...

"His weakest score," then.

No, I said BLOCKBUSTER score.

musical equivalent of The Phantom Menace - A MASSIVE let down.

TPM is regarded as a Williams masterpiece by many.

The movie can be a letdown, but the score didnt.

That's what I said. Maybe I should have been a little more specific; I was indeed referring to the TPM movie itself. Its score on the other hand knocked my socks off, back in the day.

[Henry B 50]

In fact, KotCS is certainly one of JW's best works... by ANY standards.

It's not a *bad* score, but it's hardly among his best scores. In fact, I fail to see what makes some people rank it among his better ones.

That, I can tell you.

A Whirl Through Academe, The Adventures of Mutt, The Jungle Chase, The Departure, and Finale contain some of the best (action) writing JW has ever done.

Also, Irina's Theme and The Call of the Crystal are quite original and masterful.

Original? Why, they're both homages to old fashioned movie music. "Call of the Crystal" is a good one, though. "Irina's Theme," eh, it's just dark, romantic music of a typical caliber. I like the new Tanglewood arrangement, though. It's too bad Williams didn't dream it up in time for the film.

[Quintus 5,399]

Oh and I really can't stand The Adventures of Mutt, no matter how technically proficient it may be.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

"Irina's Theme," eh, it's just dark, romantic music of a typical caliber. I like the new Tanglewood arrangement, though. It's too bad Williams didn't dream it up in time for the film.

I wish one of the like two people who recorded that would just upload the damn thing already.

[Marian Schedenig 8,272]

Oh and I really can't stand The Adventures of Mutt, no matter how technically proficient it may be.

As I keep saying like a broken record, I fail to see the proficiency in endless scales. The Mutt material is the one part of the score which I rather dislike. The rest varies from ok/nice to a few highlights. Perhaps it's my habit of listening to full scores instead of just highlights that makes me not appreciate this score... but with Williams scores, that used to be no problem.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,267]

I agree.

[Quintus 5,399]

The fundamental problem with this score is that it isn't Williams firing on all cylinders, or even half off 'em. And that just isn't acceptable for an Indiana Jones score.

ok/nice

Is pretty much how I see the whole score from start to finish.

[Josh500 1,615]

Er...

A Whirl Through Academe, Ants, and The Snake Pit are fun listens, but no more, there's nothing really special about them.

I really fail to see that. Most of the action music sounds simply empty... neither inspired nor accomplished. Like an academic attempt at scoring a cartoon, but without much effort.

Everybody's entitled to their opinions, but sometimes I just have to shake my head in wonder.

In the KotCS album, I couldn't have wished for more (except maybe the complete Jungle Chase). For the movie--as flawed as it is--the score is perfect!

[Quintus 5,399]

Everybody's entitled to their opinions, but sometimes I just have to shake my head in wonder.

Indeed you do, just as we all do, from time to time. Accept that fact and everything will be fine!

[indy4 155]

I love KotCS score, I think my final rating of it would be A-/A, I can't really decide.

For reference:

Raiders of the Lost Ark (A+)

Temple of Doom (A)

The Last Crusade (A+)

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (A-/A)

[Red 75]

I love KotCS score

How shocking.

[Jeshopk 8]

Originality tends to lend itself to quality.

Interesting idea, though I wonder what you found so original in any of Williams' output. I tend to think quality lends itself to quality, and originality is a happy accident (all of which are over and done with now that every combination o sounds has been exploited ad infinitum). I honestly think nothing is original in the way you seem to seek. If the fact that it's technically a unique piece of music is not enough, then is it originality in style you look for? Orchestration? What are people looking for? Well, we've already heard from many people that they are looking for the modern film score sound found in Powell, et all. But is that really to be hoped for in an Indiana Jones film? And if he did do something more modern, would anyone have liked it? Seems to me that some people were not going to like a new Indy score no matter what.

All this goes to my theory that any new Williams will be reacted to by a fanbase who have numbed nerves - ever seeking for the next big thing - only in time appreciating the new music by Williams. The less he writes, the more you'll get used to new sensations, and the more disappointed you'll all be with his output. Oh the ripping Harry Potter, Phantom Menace, and other "modern classics" received. It will only get worse from here. And all this negativity is tied in to pop culture and Hollywood zeitgeist. Rattatoile is in, Indy Jones is out. Simple fashion. JW Fans by and large are not orchestral music fans, consumers of popular entertainment. Their tastes subject to the current zeitgeists and all that.

[222max 1]

Perfectly average score. Lots of business but little substance. I listened to Raiders just a couple of days ago and it was so much of a great experience that it made me not even want to bother with Crystal Skull.

[Henry B 50]

Originality tends to lend itself to quality.

Interesting idea, though I wonder what you found so original in any of Williams' output. I tend to think quality lends itself to quality, and originality is a happy accident (all of which are over and done with now that every combination o sounds has been exploited ad infinitum). I honestly think nothing is original in the way you seem to seek. If the fact that it's technically a unique piece of music is not enough, then is it originality in style you look for? Orchestration? What are people looking for? Well, we've already heard from many people that they are looking for the modern film score sound found in Powell, et all. But is that really to be hoped for in an Indiana Jones film? And if he did do something more modern, would anyone have liked it? Seems to me that some people were not going to like a new Indy score no matter what.

All this goes to my theory that any new Williams will be reacted to by a fanbase who have numbed nerves - ever seeking for the next big thing - only in time appreciating the new music by Williams. The less he writes, the more you'll get used to new sensations, and the more disappointed you'll all be with his output. Oh the ripping Harry Potter, Phantom Menace, and other "modern classics" received. It will only get worse from here. And all this negativity is tied in to pop culture and Hollywood zeitgeist. Rattatoile is in, Indy Jones is out. Simple fashion. JW Fans by and large are not orchestral music fans, consumers of popular entertainment. Their tastes subject to the current zeitgeists and all that.

Oh my God! What? Dislike KotCS and you like the latest Britney Spears? That's a ridiculous leap of logic.

Speaking for myself, I think Williams has done astounding work as recently as Prisoner of Azkaban (and possibly Geisha), so I'm not just a hater. (Who is, anyway?) As to my idea that originality lends itself to quality, I am not saying that the two are the same. I mean that one will naturally write better music when breaking new ground and experiencing new sensations and emotions. "A Window to the Past," for example, is not quite like anything Williams wrote before. Nor are "Double Trouble" or "The Knight Bus." On the other hand, "Hidden Treasure and the City of Gold" is pretty much War of the Worlds (the second half, anyway - I generally like the Skull material).

Here's a thought: before the score's release we heard that the Continuum Fingerboard, a cutting edge keyboard, was being used by Williams. It could have been really interesting, but what we got was a very tepid imitation of a theremin heard only a couple times in the score. Why was it so restrained? Compare it to The Fury. Now that's how to use a theremin!

[Hlao-roo 389]

Originality tends to lend itself to quality.

Interesting idea, though I wonder what you found so original in any of Williams' output. I tend to think quality lends itself to quality, and originality is a happy accident (all of which are over and done with now that every combination o sounds has been exploited ad infinitum). I honestly think nothing is original in the way you seem to seek. If the fact that it's technically a unique piece of music is not enough, then is it originality in style you look for? Orchestration? What are people looking for? Well, we've already heard from many people that they are looking for the modern film score sound found in Powell, et all. But is that really to be hoped for in an Indiana Jones film? And if he did do something more modern, would anyone have liked it? Seems to me that some people were not going to like a new Indy score no matter what.

All this goes to my theory that any new Williams will be reacted to by a fanbase who have numbed nerves - ever seeking for the next big thing - only in time appreciating the new music by Williams. The less he writes, the more you'll get used to new sensations, and the more disappointed you'll all be with his output. Oh the ripping Harry Potter, Phantom Menace, and other "modern classics" received. It will only get worse from here. And all this negativity is tied in to pop culture and Hollywood zeitgeist. Rattatoile is in, Indy Jones is out. Simple fashion. JW Fans by and large are not orchestral music fans, consumers of popular entertainment. Their tastes subject to the current zeitgeists and all that.

Oh my God! What? Dislike KotCS and you like the latest Britney Spears? That's a ridiculous leap of logic.

Speaking for myself, I think Williams has done astounding work as recently as Prisoner of Azkaban (and possibly Geisha), so I'm not just a hater. (Who is, anyway?) As to my idea that originality lends itself to quality, I am not saying that the two are the same. I mean that one will naturally write better music when breaking new ground and experiencing new sensations and emotions. "A Window to the Past," for example, is not quite like anything Williams wrote before. Nor are "Double Trouble" or "The Knight Bus." On the other hand, "Hidden Treasure and the City of Gold" is pretty much War of the Worlds (the second half, anyway - I generally like the Skull material).

Here's a thought: before the score's release we heard that the Continuum Fingerboard, a cutting edge keyboard, was being used by Williams. It could have been really interesting, but what we got was a very tepid imitation of a theremin heard only a couple times in the score. Why was it so restrained? Compare it to The Fury. Now that's how to use a theremin!

I'm fine with the Continuum being incorporated more subtly into the Crystal Skull orchestrations than the theremin was in The Fury, but I'm disappointed it wasn't put to more extensive use. As it stands, it hardly seems worth the fuss that was made of it in the press release earlier.

The second half of "Hidden Treasure and the City of Gold" may be my favorite passage of the score. Indeed, the reference to "The Intersection Scene" is far from subtle, but, taken cumulatively, I think it's a splendid exercise in using the orchestra to build tension and anticipation to a climax.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

The second half of "Hidden Treasure and the City of Gold" may be my favorite passage of the score. Indeed, the reference to "The Intersection Scene" is far from subtle, but, taken cumulatively, I think it's a splendid exercise in using the orchestra to build tension and anticipation to a climax.

I agree. Though it's a little shady that it starts out so closely to WotW, it builds into an intensely satisfying culmination. Overall, I'd say the score is a letdown when compared to the previous three (is there a higher standard?), but is generally solid throughout and has some wonderful highlights.

[Jacob 0]

(is there a higher standard?)

King Solomon's Mines? 8O

[Hlao-roo 389]

(is there a higher standard?)

King Solomon's Mines?

Uncool, bro. 8O

[Jeshopk 8]

"A Window to the Past," for example, is not quite like anything Williams wrote before. Nor are "Double Trouble" or "The Knight Bus." On the other hand, "Hidden Treasure and the City of Gold" is pretty much War of the Worlds (the second half, anyway - I generally like the Skull material).

Here's a thought: before the score's release we heard that the Continuum Fingerboard, a cutting edge keyboard, was being used by Williams. It could have been really interesting, but what we got was a very tepid imitation of a theremin heard only a couple times in the score. Why was it so restrained? Compare it to The Fury. Now that's how to use a theremin!

Window to the Past is Williams in Jane Eyre mode, Double Trouble sounded like Danny Elfman, and Knight Bus was a lot like a mix of Cantina Band, Symphony for Winds and Nostalgic Jazz Oddesey... I believe Williams has stretched as far as he is comfortable. The theremin in Fury was pretty cheezy if you ask me. Cheezy in a good way though. I think anticipation ruins the experience of listening to a new Williams soundtrack. It's much more fun to just go watch the movie and buy the soundtrack instead of getting excited by reading articles and imagining the music and listening to little clips. I stayed away from the boards for the Indy hype and it paid off. The WOTW ostinato paid off because it built into something massive and complex this time. He could have changed it more, but it's neat to hear him do something more with it. Sure seems like nobody appreciated it first time around!

[Henry B 50]

Superficial similarities. That's like saying "Han Solo and the Princess" is the same as "Leia's Theme" because of the similar opening harmonies and melody. Not so at all!

[Marian Schedenig 8,272]

Sure seems like nobody appreciated it first time around!

Although I'm ultimately not that fond of WOTW as a whole, it has some terrific bits which have impressed me more than anything else he's done since POA.

I at least appreciate it more than KOTCS. 8O

[indy4 155]

"The Intersection Scene," "The Ferry Scene," and "Prolouge" are the only cues I like from WotW.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I just got "Dennis Steals the Embryo" implanted onto my brain....

[indy4 155]

Well that's a good cue to have implanted on one's brain. 8O

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Regarding Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, I really enjoyed "Spell of the Skull". No, I did not mind the quotation from "Map Room at Dawn" (in English, is "at" capitalized when used in titles?).

[Hlao-roo 389]

I can see how Henry might be irredeemably distracted by the similarities; at the same time, I find myself much closer to Jesse's and Ray's reception of the piece. Here, as he has elsewhere, Williams quotes directly from another work but showcases his creativity by finding a way to take the material in a different direction. What's more troubling is when stylistic stagnation is in evidence -- a tendency most glaringly demonstrated in the second half of "Grave Robbers." In this cue, unlike in "The City of Gold," Williams doesn't quite quote himself, but he comes off far less imaginative by comparison because he borrows musical vocabulary that is so clearly endemic to The Lost World: Jurassic Park without saying anything new with it. The staunchest defenders of Williams's 21st century work like to tell us that Williams has "evolved" as a composer and that we shouldn't expect more of the same. That sentiment makes passages like "Grave Robbers" all the more disappointing.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I liked "Grave Robbers" (especially the latter half).... Why does no one (is that seperated by a space?) judge the score individually?

[King Mark 3,631]

What bothers me is Williams recent tendency to write the definitive and amazing concert versions AFTER the OST is released

[indy4 155]

Regarding Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, I really enjoyed "Spell of the Skull". No, I did not mind the quotation from "Map Room at Dawn" (in English, is "at" capitalized when used in titles?).

I think that all prepositions (at included) are not capitalized, but I could be wrong.

But the title is "The Map Room: Dawn."

I can see how Henry might be irredeemably distracted by the similarities; at the same time, I find myself much closer to Jesse's and Ray's reception of the piece. Here, as he has elsewhere, Williams quotes directly from another work but showcases his creativity by finding a way to take the material in a different direction. What's more troubling is when stylistic stagnation is in evidence -- a tendency most glaringly demonstrated in the second half of "Grave Robbers." In this cue, unlike in "The City of Gold," Williams doesn't quite quote himself, but he comes off far less imaginative by comparison because he borrows musical vocabulary that is so clearly endemic to The Lost World: Jurassic Park without saying anything new with it. The staunchest defenders of Williams's 21st century work like to tell us that Williams has "evolved" as a composer and that we shouldn't expect more of the same. That sentiment makes passages like "Grave Robbers" all the more disappointing.

Exactly! I agree completely. I'll pick the WotW rip over "Grave Robbers" any day, which is the only action cue that I don't find myself constantly going back to.

[scissorhands 16]

I can see how Henry might be irredeemably distracted by the similarities; at the same time, I find myself much closer to Jesse's and Ray's reception of the piece. Here, as he has elsewhere, Williams quotes directly from another work but showcases his creativity by finding a way to take the material in a different direction. What's more troubling is when stylistic stagnation is in evidence -- a tendency most glaringly demonstrated in the second half of "Grave Robbers." In this cue, unlike in "The City of Gold," Williams doesn't quite quote himself, but he comes off far less imaginative by comparison because he borrows musical vocabulary that is so clearly endemic to The Lost World: Jurassic Park without saying anything new with it. The staunchest defenders of Williams's 21st century work like to tell us that Williams has "evolved" as a composer and that we shouldn't expect more of the same. That sentiment makes passages like "Grave Robbers" all the more disappointing.

In "Grave Robbers" I can agree with that, but Indiana Jones 4 and his recent scores are more than only those 2 tracks. Even if we analyze just the action cues, there's been a clear evolution since that of late 90's. "Escape from the City" (WOTW), the Jungle Chase (KOTCS), "Battle of the Trees" (horn concerto) or "Everybody Runs" (Minority Report) couldn't be more different from each other even if they share somehow the so infamous new style.

[Hlao-roo 389]

What bothers me is Williams recent tendency to write the definitive and amazing concert versions AFTER the OST is released

Agreed. I think was one of the Tanglewood 2002 concerts (still the only time I've seen Williams live) where Williams showed off an arrangement of The Patriot that left me positively giddy with satisfaction. It just blew away anything we heard on the OST.

[Quintus 5,399]

Hmm, I suppose I'm gonna have to give this score another try.