Batman

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I guess you never listened to "Edward Scissorhands", then.... (Though I like the score, I actually find it overrated, and I do not think it is Danny Elfman's best.)

[Delorean90 42]

Some of the cons I've read here have some legitimacy, but I gotta say: there are many things that this score is, and boring is definitely not one of them. I have no idea where people are getting this. This is one score where, if I have time for it, I can easily listen to it straight through and enjoy it all. There's also some excellent music missing, particularly from "First Confrontation" and "Attack of the Batwing." That's the biggest drawback of the album presentation: the microedits that omit some of the best parts of the cues. But Elfman did indeed nail it. As far as musically capturing the character, I'd say Walker and Elfman each have strong claim for the honor of the best, and I really can't choose (Goldenthal nailed the Schumacher films and gave us some awesome music--and even gave some music that's actually good for the character, such as "The Pull of Regret," but generally it doesn't have the one-two punch of being great music AND being on-target Batman music). This is definitely one of Elfman's best. I gave it 5 stars.

Oh, and I would grab an FSM Black Box of the complete scores to B89 through Batman and Robin (including MOTP and possibly Subzero) in a heartbeat.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

There are many things that this score is, and boring is definitely not one of them.

Sure it is.

[Delorean90 42]

How in the world do you figure that?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Personal taste. Give me the theme and I'm set.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Because Zimmer's Bat scores are just so much more thematically diverse, complex, melodic and interesting. Give the man an Oscar!

[indy4 155]

I guess you never listened to "Edward Scissorhands", then.... (Though I like the score, I actually find it overrated, and I do not think it is Danny Elfman's best.)

Indeed. Elfman was gentle well before Big Fish.

Scissorhands is my favorite Elfman score, for the record. It is absolutely stunning.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Also don't forget Sommersby and Black Beauty.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Yes, but "Edward Scissorhands" preceded those excellent scores.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Doesn't matter, they're still examples of a gentler, more sensitive Elfman.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

You kinda skipped Good Will Hunting. Should of been the first mentioned, since it is one of his few Oscar nominated scores.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

You kinda skipped Good Will Hunting. Should of been the first mentioned, since it is one of his few Oscar nominated scores.

I didn't kinda skip it, I haven't heard it.

[Hitch 57]

The Batman score is so over-rated. Maybe it's got to do with the fact it was ghost-written by 10 other composers.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Steve Bartek is one of cinema's hidden greats!

[Hitch 57]

He deserves more credit

[Charlie Brigden 7]

It's just as iconic a theme as Jaws.

Maybe to movie and comic nerds, but if you stop two people in the street and ask them to sing the themes from JAWS and BATMAN, they will sing as follows:

1. der-dum. der-dum. der-dum.

2. NANANANANANANANANANANANA BATMAN!

Also, Goldenthal's score out-Elfmans Elfman. Maybe it's because BF has a lot more variation in the film (not that it's better filmically, it's just more consistently camp as opposed to Burton's dark and brooding one minute, Cesar Romero-flamboyance the next).

[Pieter Boelen 740]

This is beginning to rank really quite high. Perhaps I should give it a proper listen some time.

Of course my general disinterest in Batman and the fact that I remember virtually nothing from the films doesn't help.

I was actually debating getting the DVD just to see what it's all about, but decided against it for now.

[Williamsfan301 11]

Because Zimmer's Bat scores are just so much more thematically diverse, complex, melodic and interesting. Give the man an Oscar!

Don't forget heart pounding action cues too!!

[Charlie Brigden 7]

This might get me thrown out of the clubhouse, but I like a lot of the action cues for BATMAN BEGINS. The other stuff is okay, and the lack of any real thematic content hurts it, but I enjoy listening to it and it works a treat in the film. Which is probably why I was disappointed with THE DARK KNIGHT, because it's just the same thing again.

[Jeshopk 8]

With a theme on par with John Williams' "Superman March" and a score so original at the time that it spawned numerous imitators, I would say that Elfman is to the late 80's what John Williams was to the late 70's. It's a hulking score filled with memorable cues and a snapshot of an important moment in film music history.

Steve Bartek is one of cinema's hidden greats!

"Steve Bartek: Right. Well, the problem is that people come to me and give me credit for writing Danny's music. They hint that well, "We know that you really do that stuff" - that's why he's sensitive, that's why [agent] Richard Kraft is sensitive. Danny's gotten lots of flak over it. They can't believe that someone who's a rock and roll singer in an offbeat Los Angeles band can actually write the music that he writes.

Lukas Kendall: I was just wondering to what extent Danny's music requires adjustment, without changing the concept, but making it playable...

Steve Bartek: No. Concepts are never changed. Concepts are never changed except by him. He's in full control of his creative output. I never assume to go and change things. We've had extra orchestrators; at the end of a project when things have to be done, I farm out some of the orchestration, and at certain points we've had some orchestrators who have totally changed his stuff, and we've had to re-do it. We haven't worked with those orchestrators again, because that's kind of what orchestrators see themselves as, frustrated composers most of the time, and like putting their own two cents in somebody else's music. And it just doesn't work with Danny. When he writes down a certain voicing, he wants that voicing. He doesn't want added notes, he doesn't want this or that, he's fairly specific about what he writes and what he wants to get out of it. "

http://www.boingo.org/articles/FSMBartek.html

[Hitch 57]

Because Zimmer's Bat scores are just so much more thematically diverse, complex, melodic and interesting. Give the man an Oscar!

Don't forget heart pounding action cues too!!

That's a laugh

[Romão 2,274]

The Batman score is so over-rated. Maybe it's got to do with the fact it was ghost-written by 10 other composers.

The thing is, listening to the Batman Animated Series box set made me wonder how much input Shirley Walker really had in the Batman score

[crocodile 8,016]

I think the producers simply wanted her to immitate what Elfman did.

Karol

[Romão 2,274]

That was probably the case. But still, she conducted and orchestrated the score. Soem stylistic similarities have to exist

[crocodile 8,016]

That's probably why they hired her for TAS.

Karol

[Lurker 5]

I was actually debating getting the DVD just to see what it's all about, but decided against it for now.

Smart choice.

At best, it's a rental.

Neil

[Jeshopk 8]

The Batman score is so over-rated. Maybe it's got to do with the fact it was ghost-written by 10 other composers.

"Nothing has been as pervasive or damaging to Elfman's reputation as the constant belief and insistence by others that he doesn't write his own music. Never mind the similarity of style from score to score, the fact that he has continued to write large-scale scores without using Shirley Walker to conduct, who people at one point assumed really wrote Batman; that the scores his lead orchestrator, Steve Bartek, have done on his own have been completely different from Elfman's music; and the sheer illogic to the assumption that Elfman could have a hidden army of ghost-writers somewhere without anyone naming names or coming forward. Yes, it is true he came up with the theme to Batman while on an airplane, then went into the john and hummed it into a tape recorder. Many composers and songwriters have been known to carry around tape recorders and hum out a melody when it comes to them; some turn over the tape to an orchestrator to flesh out, many write it themselves. Elfman took his tape of him humming the Batman theme, brought it home and wrote it out himself at a piano with pencil and paper." Lukas Kendall, Film Score Monthly, #64 / December, '95.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I'd send Pieter my copy, but the missus would have my guts for garters.

With a theme on par with John Williams' "Superman March"

Is that the next poll?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Shush!

Don't give him ideas.

[Delorean90 42]

This might get me thrown out of the clubhouse, but I like a lot of the action cues for BATMAN BEGINS. The other stuff is okay, and the lack of any real thematic content hurts it, but I enjoy listening to it and it works a treat in the film. Which is probably why I was disappointed with THE DARK KNIGHT, because it's just the same thing again.

The action stuff from Begins is the sort of guilty pleasure stuff that I would probably appreciate a lot better if it was used in a generic thriller. The problem is, this isn't a generic thriller (where it would fit better and perhaps even lift the film to some degree), it's Batman Begins, and even though some want to deny it, it demands more than that. Begins was disappointing because it could have had an absolutely classic score, and the music is generally decent at best.

The thing I liked best about TDK was an slight increase in the orchestra's presence against the synths and electronics, in addition to things like some good harmonic variations on the minor third motif ("Like a Dog Chasing Cars" being my favorite example). To some degree, I feel a few of the action cues may have been stronger because, even though it was basically the same, Zimmer and/or Howard improved the material somewhat.

As far as thematic content, I actually become surprised at the amount of thematic material that's actually there, as there is actually a decent amount; it just doesn't get any mileage or real interesting variation most of the time.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I was actually debating getting the DVD just to see what it's all about, but decided against it for now.

Smart choice.

At best, it's a rental.

If I only could find it available for rent.

That's something that is REALLY annoying me.

There's DOZENS of films that I would like to just see, but don't need to own.

However, they're not available for rental anywhere near me,

so then I'm pretty much forced to find them available for purchase.

I'd send Pieter my copy, but the missus would have my guts for garters.

Thanks very much. I appreciate the intent.

[crocodile 8,016]

As far as thematic content, I actually become surprised at the amount of thematic material that's actually there, as there is actually a decent amount; it just doesn't get any mileage or real interesting variation most of the time.

Yeah, I agree with that. It is not so much the music that bothers me (its still not my thing), as much as it not having any dramatic progress throughout. It seems like it is the same thing for 2 hours.

Karol

[JoeinAR 1,949]

a theme on par with Superman March.

thats just wrong

and yes the score adds weight to the film like a mediocre bowl of chili adds weight to your stomach

[lonzoe 18]

In the context of the film it's overscored ? The same could be said about a lot of the movies that the name of the guy this website is dedicated to scored.

Williams does have a tendency to overscore films. But with Elfman, I've always found it more annoying. Batman has lots of music that are just there, and loud, without really doing anything.

You talk about Nicholson like if he was only playing a really menacing Joker. He played him funny, menacing, gentlemanlike. You blame Burton for Nicholson's performance. The scene where Joker was talking to the burnt body was one of the scenes Burton mentioned on an old interview when talking about the Joker. So quit with the excuses.

What excuses? I'm not the one who says Nicholson's performance made the Joker over-the-top and too laughable, others have said that repeatedly. When I rewatched the film a few weeks/months ago, I thought Nicholson was excellent, but the overall direction/concept of the film diluted his character. To much ridiculousness and bombast, in the film and the score. Resulting in the film not being as dark as it seems to pretend to be.

So "Roasted Dude" sounded too ridiculous and bombastic. Only time Elfman went over the top was when Nicholson went over the top.

So assuming that you read comics, when you read Batman you think of Goldenthal's music?

I haven't seen a Batman comic since I was a child. But as far as pure music goes, I like Goldenthal's Batman scores far more than Elfman's.

That explains it.

a theme on par with Superman March.

thats just wrong

and yes the score adds weight to the film like a mediocre bowl of chili adds weight to your stomach

You gonna cry. It's his opinion. Get over it.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Explains that... his opinion isn't valid because he doesn't read comics?

[lonzoe 18]

Explains that... his opinion isn't valid because he doesn't read comics?

What are you his lover-- excuse me I mean lawyer?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Jeez, relax. I love "Batman" too ( though I love "Batman Returns" even more), but you seem to be a bit...angry.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Explains that... his opinion isn't valid because he doesn't read comics?

What are you his lover-- excuse me I mean lawyer?

Buh?

[lonzoe 18]

I'd send Pieter my copy, but the missus would have my guts for garters.

With a theme on par with John Williams' "Superman March"

Is that the next poll?

And why should it be? Everyone knows who's gonna win look who's website it is.

[Jeshopk 8]

I think a lot of people forget how dark the 89 Batman was compared to the public perception of the character at that time. I don't think people would have responded well to a Batman as dark as Nolan's in 89. The reason they accept it now is in large part due to Burton's films.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

John Williams does not own this website.

Also.....

WHO THE eff ARE YOU THINKING YOU CAN TALK TO MARIAN THAT WAY!

[Hitch 57]

Insulting fellow members is punishable by banishment. Marian should be treated with more respect by new members.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I'd send Pieter my copy, but the missus would have my guts for garters.

With a theme on par with John Williams' "Superman March"

Is that the next poll?

And why should it be? Everyone knows who's gonna win look who's website it is.

Ricard's?

[lonzoe 18]

Insulting fellow members is punishable by banishment. Marian should be treated with more respect by new members.

I'm not a new member. I've been a member around 2007. I don't write here that often b/c of biased opinions.

[Hitch 57]

Whoopty effing doooooo

[lonzoe 18]

Whoopty effing doooooo

[Trent B 337]

Lonzoe go back to whatever hole you crawled out of from please. Hitch is right insulting other members can be a banable offense. Keep it up I'm sure no one will miss you.

Most of us here don't give a damn if you have been here a year, you're out of line.

Edit: Yes this is Ricard's site.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Hitch is right insulting other members can be a banable offense.

That's true.

Oh, wait.

Lonzoe go back to whatever hole you crawled out of from please. Keep it up I'm sure no one will miss you.

Most of us here don't give a damn if you have been here a year.

And you're not the only one pulling these stunts.

Also, I'm not quite sure where this recent thrend is coming from of people who registered 18 months ago are suddenly crawling out of the woodworks to start calling the regular people here biased.

Biased?

No sh*t, Sherlocks!

[Hitch 57]

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

[Quintus 5,399]