Rate "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom"!

[Henry B 50]

There was something almost mythical about the Indy character when he hauls ass on the steed across the desert chasing the truck or magically transports 15 feet from the rock crusher when he springs back to life. TLC and KOTCS were more "serious" and portrayed him as more of a real guy than the first two. If that makes any sense.

I've never heard somebody criticize KotCS because it was too realistic...

I know exactly what you're talking about, the cheesiness of the Indy films is part of their charm, but LC and KotCS are chalk full of it.

I think what he means is that Raiders and ToD are self-contained adventures with tenuous relationships, while LC begins a larger, family oriented saga.

I can't fathom preferring KotCS ... it's just as silly and twice as lazy.

Sometimes, when you've got something as frenetic as TOD, upping the laziness is exactly what's needed.

I don't believe laziness is ever a plus in a film.

[Red 75]

I know exactly what you're talking about, the cheesiness of the Indy films is part of their charm, but LC and KotCS are chalk full of it.

Mainly KOTCS.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Score: 4

Film: 3.5

Theme: Short Round

[indy4 155]

There was something almost mythical about the Indy character when he hauls ass on the steed across the desert chasing the truck or magically transports 15 feet from the rock crusher when he springs back to life. TLC and KOTCS were more "serious" and portrayed him as more of a real guy than the first two. If that makes any sense.

I've never heard somebody criticize KotCS because it was too realistic...

I know exactly what you're talking about, the cheesiness of the Indy films is part of their charm, but LC and KotCS are chalk full of it.

I think what he means is that Raiders and ToD are self-contained adventures with tenuous relationships, while LC begins a larger, family oriented saga.

Hmmmm, I don't think so. His examples don't really fit that explanation. I could be wrong though.

[AzOutcast 122]

Score 5/5

Film 4.5/5

Willie's Theme

Ya know, I never came to appreciate Doom until the flicks were released on DVD, and I sat down and watched it and was blown away. I give it a lot of credit for truly creating another adventure, not just a carbon copy of the first or something not as good. It's different, but it's still Indy and it's really the only other movie in the series that held true to its roots as far as I'm concerned. Not to mention it has balls. As a kid, the whole thing was scary and perhaps the kid in me really digs this "Indy goes to Hell and fights back" angle of it.

It's not perfect, as Willie does grate on the nerves. She doesn't bother me as much as some folks, because they are after all making fun of the typical female sidekick, but I think perhaps they did too good a job in that department. Besides, freeing slaves is the most selfless thing we've seen Indy do in any of the movies. That makes the ending very satisfying.

It's a darker, action-packed Indy adventure and it's got one hell of a score. What a ride!

[Datameister 2,044]

I don't believe laziness is ever a plus in a film.

On an absolute scale? No, not really. But speaking relatively, if you double the laziness of something so strongly and annoyingly anti-lazy as TOD, you get something that does a much better job of approximating the laziness level I look for in a film - that is to say, not lazy, but not overbearingly frantic. Not trying to say KOTCS is a perfect film or anything, but I find its flaws to be far less distracting than those in TOD.

[Henry B 50]

I find the Jungle Chase more frantic and overbearing than anything in ToD. There's so much going on, but it ultimately amounts to nothing. It elicits no reaction from me. The "laziness" of KotCS isn't its relaxed pacing, but its aimlessness, inconsistency and lack of ability to sustain tension. Although, the second half of KotCS is essentially as nonstop in action as the second half of ToD.

[John Crichton 4]

There is no tension whatsoever in Indy 4, that's been my main criticism of it since my first viewing. You never believe there's any true danger, the whole thing feels like an exercise in intellectual curiosity.

[Henry B 50]

More like intellectual stupidity!

[Datameister 2,044]

The "laziness" of KotCS isn't its relaxed pacing, but its aimlessness, inconsistency and lack of ability to sustain tension.

I'll give you those three...albeit in significantly smaller quantities than you perceive. Anyway, we're gettin' off-topic. My intent was not to open up another KOTCS bashfest, though I should have expected that.

[Henry B 50]

A KotCS bashfest is something you always expect, as opposed to ... never mind ...

[John Crichton 4]

More like intellectual stupidity!

Or stupid curiosity?

A KotCS bashfest is something you always expect, as opposed to ... never mind ...

The Spanish Inquisition!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Is Josh gonna keep doing these redundant polls until every score in JW's filmography has been voted on? I bet within 72 hours we'll have one on The Last Crusade.

[John Crichton 4]

You're lowballing it. It'll be 24.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Care to make it interesting?

[Delorean90 42]

There is no tension whatsoever in Indy 4, that's been my main criticism of it since my first viewing. You never believe there's any true danger, the whole thing feels like an exercise in intellectual curiosity.

What irritates me more is the lack of respect given to the character development--particular in the reconnection with Indy-Marion/Indy-Mutt, and the unification of the family. They kind of laugh their way into each other's arms. The spats are fine, I just wanted some serious discussion between Indy and Marion. And Indy should've had something real to say to Mutt when he asks why he didn't stay. Yeah, the lack of tension is an issue, but it's not as big for me--I didn't even think about it until later, I was having such a good time. And I still enjoy the film to bits, especially starting when he get back to the college all the way up through the night camp sequence. I even love the ending--the very ending, at least, in the church. But KOTCS was missing the emotional depth and respect that even TOD had some dose of to give some sort of balance to the humor with which the characters, as is proper, are mostly handled.

[Henry B 50]

Indeed, the way the "family" is treated is quite insulting.

[Josh500 1,615]

I take my twat off to you, hornist

I can't fathom preferring KotCS ... it's just as silly and twice as lazy.

Sometimes, when you've got something as frenetic as TOD, upping the laziness is exactly what's needed.

I think the movie is so frenetic to keep us distracted from the fact that it's so incredibly silly.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

not overbearingly frantic

That's exactly why I think TOD is great. It's a big silly rollercoaster ride that barely stops to breathe. As opposed to KOTCS, which barely limps most of the time.

[Josh500 1,615]

You're lowballing it. It'll be 24.

Idiot!

There is no tension whatsoever in Indy 4, that's been my main criticism of it since my first viewing. You never believe there's any true danger, the whole thing feels like an exercise in intellectual curiosity.

What irritates me more is the lack of respect given to the character development--particular in the reconnection with Indy-Marion/Indy-Mutt, and the unification of the family. They kind of laugh their way into each other's arms. The spats are fine, I just wanted some serious discussion between Indy and Marion. And Indy should've had something real to say to Mutt when he asks why he didn't stay. Yeah, the lack of tension is an issue, but it's not as big for me--I didn't even think about it until later, I was having such a good time. And I still enjoy the film to bits, especially starting when he get back to the college all the way up through the night camp sequence. I even love the ending--the very ending, at least, in the church. But KOTCS was missing the emotional depth and respect that even TOD had some dose of to give some sort of balance to the humor with which the characters, as is proper, are mostly handled.

I think David Koepp's to blame... the writer has the responsibilily to tell a good story, make the most of every scene.

GL "just" provides the basic ideas.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

You're lowballing it. It'll be 24.

Idiot!

There is no tension whatsoever in Indy 4, that's been my main criticism of it since my first viewing. You never believe there's any true danger, the whole thing feels like an exercise in intellectual curiosity.

What irritates me more is the lack of respect given to the character development--particular in the reconnection with Indy-Marion/Indy-Mutt, and the unification of the family. They kind of laugh their way into each other's arms. The spats are fine, I just wanted some serious discussion between Indy and Marion. And Indy should've had something real to say to Mutt when he asks why he didn't stay. Yeah, the lack of tension is an issue, but it's not as big for me--I didn't even think about it until later, I was having such a good time. And I still enjoy the film to bits, especially starting when he get back to the college all the way up through the night camp sequence. I even love the ending--the very ending, at least, in the church. But KOTCS was missing the emotional depth and respect that even TOD had some dose of to give some sort of balance to the humor with which the characters, as is proper, are mostly handled.

I think David Koepp's to blame... the writer has the responsibilily to tell a good story, make the most of every scene.

GL "just" provides the basic ideas.

Actually I feel Spielberg's at fault. The script is terrible at times, but the film just feels like it's been directed half-heartedly, with Lucas-esque acting at times. Like others have said, it feels like it was all done for the sake of it, and as such, Spielberg seems on autopilot.

[Josh500 1,615]

Actually I feel Spielberg's at fault. The script is terrible at times, but the film just feels like it's been directed half-heartedly, with Lucas-esque acting at times. Like others have said, it feels like it was all done for the sake of it, and as such, Spielberg seems on autopilot.

Of the three (Lucas, Koepp, and Spielberg), Spielberg has done the most commendable job...

What sucks is the story, the script, not the way it's shot. The acting is good, if not spectacularly great.

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2yzkWUNU6c

It starts at exactly 2:14. Piano is playing accents underneath.

Really? I never would have thought muted trumpets!

Yup, that's what I was thinking of! It's indeed muted trumpet.

This is really great... I'm always amazed at JW's ability to a make good use of every instrument of the orchestra!

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Of the three (Lucas, Koepp, and Spielberg), Spielberg has done the most commendable job...

I disagree. The story is serviceable, the script isn't very good, but again, above-average directing could have elevated it. Spielberg has done the worst thing of all, he made Indiana Jones boring. From the moment the action starts in the warehouse, the shots seem pedestrian, the action choreography blocking dull. It's only because of Michael Kahn's editing that the film has any real movement at all.

[Josh500 1,615]

Of the three (Lucas, Koepp, and Spielberg), Spielberg has done the most commendable job...

I disagree. The story is serviceable, the script isn't very good, but again, above-average directing could have elevated it. Spielberg has done the worst thing of all, he made Indiana Jones boring. From the moment the action starts in the warehouse, the shots seem pedestrian, the action choreography blocking dull. It's only because of Michael Kahn's editing that the film has any real movement at all.

Do you really think so? Or do you just like to discuss this?

Anyway, I'm not saying Spielberg has done a tremendously great job, but the direction is not so bad as you make out, either. What scenes exactly are you talking about (choregraphy blocking, pedestrian shots, etc.)?

The warehouse scene, the chase through university, the ant scene, the departure etc. were all well-directed... visually, it's not much different from LC.

The movie sucks because the story fails to captivate.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Of the three (Lucas, Koepp, and Spielberg), Spielberg has done the most commendable job...

I disagree. The story is serviceable, the script isn't very good, but again, above-average directing could have elevated it. Spielberg has done the worst thing of all, he made Indiana Jones boring. From the moment the action starts in the warehouse, the shots seem pedestrian, the action choreography blocking dull. It's only because of Michael Kahn's editing that the film has any real movement at all.

Do you really think so? Or do you just like to discuss this?

Anyway, I'm not saying Spielberg has done a tremendously great job, but the direction is not so bad as you make out, either. What scenes exactly are you talking about (choregraphy blocking, pedestrian shots, etc.)?

The warehouse scene, the chase through university, the ant scene, the departure etc. were all well-directed... visually, it's not much different from LC.

The movie sucks because the story fails to captivate.

I really think so. I agree there at many forces at work, but I just think Spielberg's part has been too downplayed where everything has just been thrown onto Lucas. The shot where Indy swings on the crates sums it up for me, it's like it's in slow-motion. It doesn't help that the scene is followed up with a lazy quote of 'Flight From Peru'. The bike scene is good, but even that feels like it's quite slow, and not as manic as for example the LC bike scene or the Shanghai chase. The departure scene is my favourite bit, that's the only part where it seems to capture the wonder and magic of the Indy films. LC suffers occasionally but the action scenes are much more fun. There's nothing in KOTCS that can match the circus chase or the tank scene or even the scene on the Coronado.

[Josh500 1,615]

I really think so. I agree there at many forces at work, but I just think Spielberg's part has been too downplayed where everything has just been thrown onto Lucas. The shot where Indy swings on the crates sums it up for me, it's like it's in slow-motion. It doesn't help that the scene is followed up with a lazy quote of 'Flight From Peru'. The bike scene is good, but even that feels like it's quite slow, and not as manic as for example the LC bike scene or the Shanghai chase. The departure scene is my favourite bit, that's the only part where it seems to capture the wonder and magic of the Indy films. LC suffers occasionally but the action scenes are much more fun. There's nothing in KOTCS that can match the circus chase or the tank scene or even the scene on the Coronado.

Well, you might be right there, but IMO it's unfair to blame it all (or even most of it) on Spielberg.

You see, Ford was almost 20 years older... so I think that explains the slow motion!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Tetralezine... for motion sickness.

[Datameister 2,044]

Urgh...look what I started.

[crocodile 8,018]

4,5 for the score (fun, but far too overblown for my liking)

3,5 for the movie (the same as above)

Willie's theme (SR's theme is plain silly)

Karol

[John Crichton 4]

You're lowballing it. It'll be 24.

Idiot!

"Hello pot, this is kettle. You're looking very black today."

[MrScratch 294]

Willie's theme (SR's theme is plain silly)

I always thought Willie's theme was the silly one. Shorty's theme is appropriate for the character, adventurous and playful but not silly.

[Maxxie 1]

Why are people saying that Short Round's Theme is silly? I don't understand how it's silly?

[Josh500 1,615]

What does that even mean, a theme is silly?

A character can be silly, but not a musical theme! It may not fit a character, but it can't be silly.

BTW, neither theme is silly. But the character of Willie is certainly not the brightest.

[Datameister 2,044]

Why can't music sound silly?

[Josh500 1,615]

Why can't music sound silly?

Sound yes, but not be silly...

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I personally think Willie's theme is gorgeous. It's romantic and heart-warming while projecting the goofy side of her character. Short Round's theme I also love. JW's use of leitmotif in the last half of ToD is incredible.

[Josh500 1,615]

I personally think Willie's theme is gorgeous. It's romantic and heart-warming while projecting the goofy side of her character. Short Round's theme I also love. JW's use of leitmotif in the last half of ToD is incredible.

I agree.

I love how Short Round's theme has a slightly Asian flavor to it. Also, at the same time, it manages to sound childish, adventurous, optimistic, benign, and heroic. I think it's quite a feat expressing all these characteristics and to sound quasi-Chinese...

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Sound yes, but not be silly...

If I may quote Henry...

?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Of the three (Lucas, Koepp, and Spielberg), Spielberg has done the most commendable job...

I disagree. The story is serviceable, the script isn't very good, but again, above-average directing could have elevated it. Spielberg has done the worst thing of all, he made Indiana Jones boring. From the moment the action starts in the warehouse, the shots seem pedestrian, the action choreography blocking dull. It's only because of Michael Kahn's editing that the film has any real movement at all.

Do you really think so? Or do you just like to discuss this?

Anyway, I'm not saying Spielberg has done a tremendously great job, but the direction is not so bad as you make out, either. What scenes exactly are you talking about (choregraphy blocking, pedestrian shots, etc.)?

The warehouse scene, the chase through university, the ant scene, the departure etc. were all well-directed... visually, it's not much different from LC.

The movie sucks because the story fails to captivate.

you gave KOTCS a 3.5 in your one year anniversary poll and you say it sucks?

[Hlao-roo 389]

Sound yes, but not be silly...

If I may quote Henry...

?

Actually, I think Abraham Lincoln said that.

Sound yes, but not be silly...

If I may quote Henry...

?

As your appreciation of music becomes more sophisticated, you'll find that how a particular piece sounds is in fact a rather superficial consideration.

[Datameister 2,044]

As your appreciation of music becomes more sophisticated, you'll find that how a particular piece sounds is in fact a rather superficial consideration.

I suppose that makes music a pretty superficial art, since how a particular piece sounds is in fact the most important consideration.

[Hlao-roo 389]

As your appreciation of music becomes more sophisticated, you'll find that how a particular piece sounds is in fact a rather superficial consideration.

I suppose that makes music a pretty superficial art, since how a particular piece sounds is in fact the most important consideration.

I'm sorry that your experience of music is so unsophisticated.

[Incanus 5,715]

The score 5 stars

The movie 3,5 stars

This is such a wonderful action/adventure with a blend of just about everything. It is one of the most interesting ethnically tinged scores JW has done as well with such great choral work. But in all honesty JW went for a wee bit crazy with the Raiders March in this one. Yes I know it is varied and interesting throughout the film but especially the final action sequences starting from Rescuing Willie are endless Raiders March variations ending in the extended finale. The music is so frenetic, going in all directions, spewing forth fanfares, orchestral hits and themes all around and has such "and the kitchen sink" approach that I need to be in a very adventurous mood to listen to it all the way through.

And no I am not denying the sheer cinematic magic it summons or how there are brilliant moments in the action but it has such a pace it can wear you down if you are not in the right mindset.

[Hlao-roo 389]

The score 5 stars

The movie 3,5 stars

This is such a wonderful action/adventure with a blend of just about everything. It is one of the most interesting ethnically tinged scores JW has done as well with such great choral work. But in all honesty JW went for a wee bit crazy with the Raiders March in this one. Yes I know it is varied and interesting throughout the film but especially the final action sequences starting from Rescuing Willie are endless Raiders March variations ending in the extended finale. The music is so frenetic, going in all directions, spewing forth fanfares, orchestral hits and themes all around and has such "and the kitchen sink" approach that I need to be in a very adventurous mood to listen to it all the way through.

And no I am not denying the sheer cinematic magic it summons or how there are brilliant moments in the action but it has such a pace it can wear you down if you are not in the right mindset.

It is very much kitchen sink. Fortunately, Williams is a much more mature composer these days.

[Datameister 2,044]

I'm sorry that your experience of music is so unsophisticated.

Yeah, I'm pretty pitiful. Shame on me for caring what music, of all things, sounds like! Please, enlighten me.

[publicist 4,643]

It is very much kitchen sink. Fortunately, Williams is a much more mature composer these days.

Exactly. 'Behave like an adult!' he was told and alas, his music became sane and dependable!

[A24 4,345]

... or how there are brilliant moments in the action but it has such a pace it can wear you down ...

Even if one is in the right mindset, I wonder what people get out of that. This soundtrack is way too neurotic. It's making me nervous after a while. The action music does nothing more than copying the action on screen. It's overkill!

Alex

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I love the pace, it's what helps make it fun.

[Hlao-roo 389]

I'm sorry that your experience of music is so unsophisticated.

Yeah, I'm pretty pitiful. Shame on me for caring what music, of all things, sounds like! Please, enlighten me.

At the end of your life, when your hearing is shot, and your hands are riddled with rheumatism, you won't care how the music sounds anymore. In the end, that's not what's important. Martin Luther King, Jr. said it best: "I have a dream that music will one day find an audience that judges it not by the sound of its performance but by the content of its character." The sound of music is ephemeral, but its values are

.

[Datameister 2,044]

At the end of your life, when your hearing is shot, and your hands are riddled with rheumatism, you won't care how the music sounds anymore. In the end, that's not what's important. Martin Luther King, Jr. said it best: "I have a dream that music will one day find an audience that judges it not by the sound of its performance but by the content of its character." The sound of music is ephemeral, but its values are

.

Sorry, but despite your eloquent MLK quote butcherings, I'm still feeling pretty unsophisticated over here...what, pray tell, is the content of the character of the score to TOD? What is it I'll care about when I can no longer hear whether or not Short Round's theme sounds silly? I take it there's some meaning hidden in the music that would still be there no matter how it sounded, and it's the only part that any intelligent person should pay attention to?