So, what JW scores are not 5 stars, are not masterpieces, they all cannot be?

[publicist 4,643]

This is all very cynical. Williams had his decades of writing for Junk, and I am pretty sure he'd rather not go back to that. He could have sought out another Earthquake if he really wanted to get his funk on again. The man was just trying to pay the bills back then, and I am sure he's happy he can write how he wants now, without concern for anything but the film and the music. Jerry was slumming it when he wrote Rent-a-Cop. I'm happy Williams hasn't had to sink so low in a while.

That was so....predictable.

You are always so protective about anything regarding this composer, there really is no point in discussing. I'm not here to debate the personal well-being of Williams, Goldsmith or Morricone, but the simple fact that famous film composer who are not John Williams and more versatile often were/are not very selective in choosing their assignments. This leads to more clunkers but also to more adventures.

[Josh500 1,615]

This leads to more clunkers...

Exactly.

[publicist 4,643]

This leads to more clunkers...

Exactly.

Which of course would provide you with the much needed fodder to fire off 10.000 new polls.

[Ollie 1,059]

[Josh500 1,615]

You two remind me of the hyenas in Lion King... asses!

[John Crichton 4]

Jerry was slumming it when he wrote Rent-a-Cop. I'm happy Williams hasn't had to sink so low in a while.

What about Attack of the Clones?

Goldsmith's "slumming" brought us some damn fine film scores.

I am so sick of Attack of the Clones always being brought out and constantly beat up whenever people want to talk about Williams' "low points". It's not a low point, it's a damn fine score that is highly misunderstood because it was chopped up so much in the film, and because people hate the film so much. And because the CD sounds like crap. Pick a different whipping boy! I suggest Home Alone 2 or Nixon to start.

[Josh500 1,615]

I suggest Home Alone 2 or Nixon to start.

I say The Missouri Breaks or 1941... although I do love that march. Damn!

[John Crichton 4]

I love The Missouri Breaks, I can imagine Williams laughing his butt off while writing it. And the love theme is actually one of Williams' best.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Hey, you leave "Swing, Swing, Swing" out of this!

[Josh500 1,615]

I love The Missouri Breaks, I can imagine Williams laughing his butt off while writing it. And the love theme is actually one of Williams' best.

Well, I love Nixon. And bashing Home Alone 2... isn't that just like bashing Home Alone (plus a few more themes)?

OK. Sugarland Express was Williams' official low point.

[John Crichton 4]

And bashing Home Alone 2... isn't that just like bashing Home Alone (plus a few more themes)?

That's a big part of the problem- it's a Williams sequel score that brings nothing new to the table.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Hey, Sugarland Express was not too bad, either! Try some of John Williams' earlier scores from the 1950's.

[Josh500 1,615]

And bashing Home Alone 2... isn't that just like bashing Home Alone (plus a few more themes)?

That's a big part of the problem- it's a Williams sequel score that brings nothing new to the table.

Yeah, so it's a low point because he didn't do much to create something new.

But we're talking about low points as far as his compositions go.

Hey, Sugarland Express was not too bad, either! Try some of John Williams' earlier scores from the 1950's.

OK, I got it.

The piano sonata Williams started when he was 19 but never finished! That's gotta be his low point!

[John Crichton 4]

But we're talking about low points as far as his compositions go.

I'll talk about whatever low point I want to talk about, thank you very much.

[Hlao-roo 389]

The piano sonata Williams started when he was 19 but never finished! That's gotta be his low point!

Oh no! Did they turn you into a hater?!

[Josh500 1,615]

The piano sonata Williams started when he was 19 but never finished! That's gotta be his low point!

Oh no! Did they turn you into a hater?!

Well, what is his low point? You tell me.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I am so sick of Attack of the Clones always being brought out and constantly beat up whenever people want to talk about Williams' "low points". It's not a low point, it's a damn fine score that is highly misunderstood because it was chopped up so much in the film, and because people hate the film so much.

Also, because rather than being judged on its own merit, is continually measured against the other Star Wars scores, which are all superior. It's often forgotten in the process that there's a whole lot of damn fine scores that would draw the short end of the stick when compared to the first four Star Wars scores. Disappointment as a result of high expectations seems to be the deciding factor whenever AotC gets reviewed.

[Hitch 57]

OK. Sugarland Express was Williams' official low point.

Can't be as low as your low point.

[Josh500 1,615]

I am so sick of Attack of the Clones always being brought out and constantly beat up whenever people want to talk about Williams' "low points". It's not a low point, it's a damn fine score that is highly misunderstood because it was chopped up so much in the film, and because people hate the film so much.

Also, because rather than being judged on its own merit, is continually measured against the other Star Wars scores, which are all superior. It's often forgotten in the process that there's a whole lot of damn fine scores that would draw the short end of the stick when compared to the first four Star Wars scores. Disappointment as a result of high expectations seems to be the deciding factor whenever AotC gets reviewed.

Yeah, same with Chamber of Secrets.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

No, Chamber of Secrets isn't bashed as much.

In fact, it is often defended for featuring at least several highly enjoyable concert suites. The score's biggest problem is the many re-recordings and the terribly misused Stone motif from the first film. The original music for the second film is really quite good and the score doesn't get as much of a bad rep as AotC.

Then again, reactions to anything Star Wars are always much more in the extreme than reactions to anything Potter.

[Josh500 1,615]

No, Chamber of Secrets isn't bashed as much.

In fact, it is often defended for featuring at least several highly enjoyable concert suites. The score's biggest problem is the many re-recordings and the terribly misused Stone motif from the first film. The original music for the second film is really quite good and the score doesn't get as much of a bad rep as AotC.

Then again, reactions to anything Star Wars are always much more in the extreme than reactions to anything Potter.

It seems to me that these things go in cycles. I still remember when AotC came out, it was lauded by some as even better than TPM, with Across the Stars as its centerpiece. Then, as the years passed, people seemed to react more and more negatively toward it...

But I still think way too many people bash CoS.

[Hlao-roo 389]

It seems to me that these things go in cycles. I still remember when AotC came out, it was lauded by some as even better than TPM, with Across the Stars as its centerpiece. Then, as the years passed, people seemed to react more and more negatively toward it...

This is true. With The Phantom Menace, it was nearly the opposite. The reaction was pretty mixed upon release -- now it is routinely hailed as a classic in the company of the first three Star Wars scores.

[Josh500 1,615]

It seems to me that these things go in cycles. I still remember when AotC came out, it was lauded by some as even better than TPM, with Across the Stars as its centerpiece. Then, as the years passed, people seemed to react more and more negatively toward it...

This is true. With The Phantom Menace, it was nearly the opposite. The reaction was pretty mixed upon release -- now it is routinely hailed as a classic in the company of the first three Star Wars scores.

Yes. So is it too far-fetched to assume KotCs will be hailed as a classic too someday?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

TPM is an excellent score. Even the underscore has some interesting things going on.

It doesn't get near the excitement level of the first three though, due in part to the movie's many scenes of people standing around vaguely explaining the plot to each other.

[Diego 21]

I enjoy all the original music in COS a lot, I like the new themes, Fawkes and the Chamber in particular, my problem is with the music from the first film (and from AOTC). I love the Chamber theme and is a shame it wasn't used more and instead we got a PS rehash in many key scenes.

AOTC on the other hand has only one strong new theme, which sounds derivative of both Hook and the Star Wars main theme. The Chase Trough Coruscant is just awful (I'm sure many will disagree) and there's not great action music in AOTC. And also the thematic material from TPM was just abandoned instead of being developed.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

It seems to me that these things go in cycles. I still remember when AotC came out, it was lauded by some as even better than TPM, with Across the Stars as its centerpiece. Then, as the years passed, people seemed to react more and more negatively toward it...

This is true. With The Phantom Menace, it was nearly the opposite. The reaction was pretty mixed upon release -- now it is routinely hailed as a classic in the company of the first three Star Wars scores.

Yes. So is it too far-fetched to assume KotCs will be hailed as a classic too someday?

10 years from now, who knows?

But the recycled passages from Raiders aren't doing it any favors.

[John Crichton 4]

Then again, reactions to anything Star Wars are always much more in the extreme than reactions to anything Potter.

Reactions to anything Star Wars are always much more in the extreme than reactions to pretty much anything else.

[Josh500 1,615]

I think generally, it's safe to assume that JW's scores age very well.

AotC seems to be the only exception... which proves the rule!?

10 years from now, who knows?

But the recycled passages from Raiders aren't doing it any favors.

Yes, those're a bit too much.

Short snippets like the Ark Theme in LC or Basket Game in ToD might have been more appropriate...

I enjoy all the original music in COS a lot, I like the new themes, Fawkes and the Chamber in particular, my problem is with the music from the first film (and from AOTC). I love the Chamber theme and is a shame it wasn't used more and instead we got a PS rehash in many key scenes.

AOTC on the other hand has only one strong new theme, which sounds derivative of both Hook and the Star Wars main theme. The Chase Trough Coruscant is just awful (I'm sure many will disagree) and there's not great action music in AOTC. And also the thematic material from TPM was just abandoned instead of being developed.

I enjoy AotCS very much. In fact, some of the best Star Wars tracks are from this score:

Across the Stars, Zam the Assassin, The Arena, and On The Conveyor Belt.

CTC has some great parts!

[Diego 21]

The Arena is all right, couldn't say about "On The Conveyor Belt" the CD that was sold on Mexico doesn't have that track and on the movie is all chopped up.

[Datameister 2,044]

AotC seems to be the only exception... which proves the rule!?

On the contrary, AOTC has aged very well. Some people just don't like it, which I honestly don't get.

[Josh500 1,615]

The Arena is all right, couldn't say about "On The Conveyor Belt" the CD that was sold on Mexico doesn't have that track and on the movie is all chopped up.

But you do know it, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi4lDFg3wLE

AotC seems to be the only exception... which proves the rule!?

On the contrary, AOTC has aged very well. Some people just don't like it, which I honestly don't get.

Well, it has for me too, actually.

Still most people disagree with us.

OTCB is great. I love how the orchestra almost emulates the pressing machines (?) in a factory...

[indy4 155]

AotC is indeed a great score. In fact, I prefer it to Return of the Jedi's score.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

...Wh...what? I knew your sense of humor was degrading since you added that picture to your signature, but this is ridiculous!

[indy4 155]

Not that RotJ is a bad score, AotC is just too good (by btw, my signature is hilarious).

[Hitch 57]

I'm speechless with admiration

[Jacob 0]

I am so sick of Attack of the Clones always being brought out and constantly beat up whenever people want to talk about Williams' "low points". It's not a low point, it's a damn fine score that is highly misunderstood because it was chopped up so much in the film, and because people hate the film so much. And because the CD sounds like crap. Pick a different whipping boy! I suggest Home Alone 2 or Nixon to start.

Thank you.

[Henry B 50]

Oh Josh, you're not a very receptive listener. That comment about "much more" couldn't be farther from the truth. You see, the anonymous composers of which I speak are defined by superficial criteria like genre, instrumentation and language because they have no style of their own. Williams rises above these values with a distinctly personal sort of music. The disadvantage of this is that sometimes the music gets too personal; that is, Williams falls into habits that no uppity film with its unique needs has the strength to challenge. We see these habits break down when Williams does his best work. The Lost World, A.I., Prisoner of Azkaban; they all show the labor of Williams' considerations. It's like he carefully studied the film and deliberated furiously over how to score it; not that he normally has no regard for the needs of a film, but in these cases he went above and beyond. Except for The Lost World ... I dunno what inspired him to write that.

You're overthinking it.

First of all, writing music without signature doesn't make you versatile. It makes you uneven. Also, again, in JW's case, it has to do with the quantity. With the amount of music he creates, you don't seriously expect him to reinvent himself anew with every cue or track (or even score), do you?

And anyway, stop with the jingle composers. You can't seriously back that claim up, and you know it.

Okay, Josh. From now on I'll stop talking about something if you don't understand it. I'll let you think it's because I "can't back that claim up." Also, you still seem to be under the delusion that I think Williams has no versatility whatsoever. It's a funny delusion. I'll just let you harbor it as well. Looks like we're done here.

[A24 4,345]

This leads to more clunkers...

Exactly.

What do you mean by "clunkers"?

[publicist 4,643]

This leads to more clunkers...

Exactly.

What do you mean by "clunkers"?

Many late 80's/early 90's Goldsmith'es, Morricone scores whose titles i instantly forgot.

[A24 4,345]

And are the "clunkers" a direct result of their attempt to leave the comfort zone?

[Josh500 1,615]

Okay, Josh. From now on I'll stop talking about something if you don't understand it. I'll let you think it's because I "can't back that claim up." Also, you still seem to be under the delusion that I think Williams has no versatility whatsoever. It's a funny delusion. I'll just let you harbor it as well. Looks like we're done here.

So you can't back it up: you didn't name a single name!

Yeah, we're done.

...Wh...what? I knew your sense of humor was degrading since you added that picture to your signature, but this is ridiculous!

AotC being great... that must be some kind of bad joke, right?

Grow up!

[Neimoidian 14]

The Chase Trough Coruscant is just awful (I'm sure many will disagree) (...)

You bet I do. It's one of the coolest tracks in AotC and one of the most unusual and original JW's cues ever. It doesn't have that almost concert-like arrangement like many of the previous action cues, so it pisses many. I love it, though. That driving percussion and energy it generates are terrific.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

So you can't back it up: you didn't name a single name!

I apologize for intruding in your argument, but is it really necessary to name a single name? Henry used "television jingle composers" as a large part of his argument, all one would have to do to understand his points is to turn on the television and not press the "Mute" button when the commercials breaks occur.

AotC being great... that must be some kind of bad joke, right?

I think Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones is awesome...but better than Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi?

[Josh500 1,615]

I apologize for intruding in your argument, but is it really necessary to name a single name? Henry used "television jingle composers" as a large part of his argument, all one would have to do to understand his points is to turn on the television and not press the "Mute" button when the commercials breaks occur.

No, my neighbor is more versatile than all of Henry's jingle composers.

In fact, my neighbor is twice as talented as John Williams.

I won't say who he is, but trust me.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Where in the name of Sweet Golly Moses did that come from? I understand the point you are trying to convey, but still....

[Neimoidian 14]

I apologize for intruding in your argument, but is it really necessary to name a single name? Henry used "television jingle composers" as a large part of his argument, all one would have to do to understand his points is to turn on the television and not press the "Mute" button when the commercials breaks occur.

No, my neighbor is more versatile than all of Henry's jingle composers.

In fact, my neighbor is twice as talented as John Williams.

I won't say who he is, but trust me.

I hope you mean JW the guitarist

[Hlao-roo 389]

I apologize for intruding in your argument, but is it really necessary to name a single name? Henry used "television jingle composers" as a large part of his argument, all one would have to do to understand his points is to turn on the television and not press the "Mute" button when the commercials breaks occur.

No, my neighbor is more versatile than all of Henry's jingle composers.

In fact, my neighbor is twice as talented as John Williams.

I won't say who he is, but trust me.

I believe you. Anyone who can put up with you as a neighbor must be mighty talented, indeed.

[Delorean90 42]

AotC is indeed a great score. In fact, I prefer it to Return of the Jedi's score.

I just listened to ROTJ. Even I underrated it until now. It's a classic, amazingly rich score.

And John, HA2 as a whipping boy?

[Josh500 1,615]

AotC is indeed a great score. In fact, I prefer it to Return of the Jedi's score.

I just listened to ROTJ. Even I underrated it until now. It's a classic, amazingly rich score.

And John, HA2 as a whipping boy?

RotJ might be better than AotC, but that doesn't mean AotC is terrible.

All Star Wars scores are phenomenally good.

[publicist 4,643]

And are the "clunkers" a direct result of their attempt to leave the comfort zone?

I think it's more about a mindset. If you are willing to write a drum machine/synth score for a film like 'Link', a good percent of the people listening will cry 'what a junk!' while in the grand scheme, it figures as an interesting concept, successful execution or not. Same with Morricone's atonal Giallo-scores or newer stuff like 'A Pure Formality'. And Goldsmith's last movie was 'Looney Tunes', after all.

Williams tried new things after 1995 and i firmly believe that he felt the stylistic hamsterwheel he was in. But still, more often than not he approached 'big subjects' which require a certain weight, if you want. Scores like 'Terminal' or 'Catch me if you can' seem to be the only instances of him really open up to more frivolous subjects and those he did because of Spielberg. 'PoA' seems a rare later instance of Williams taking chances with a big project.