So, what JW scores are not 5 stars, are not masterpieces, they all cannot be?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

The JW Endless poll site has become nothing but a lovefest of supposed 5 star scores.

They all can't be 5 stars, they cannot all be perfect.

There are varying degrees of quality in JW's works.

He does not produce greatness with every note he writes.

I understand enjoying a particular score better than another, but I also know that a score you don't like as well can actually be a superior score.

Unfortunately the lines are blurred more than ever at this site.

You know things are not well here when a majority claims Raiders is better than E.T.

So back to the question what scores are not 5 stars, most of the recent polls indicate that everything is 5 stars.

[King Mark 3,631]

5 Star Willliams scores:

Jaws

Star Wars

TESB

Raiders

E.T.

RotJ

ToD

LC

Amazing Stories The Mission

Hook

HPSS

TPM

RotS

[JoeinAR 1,949]

KM, I appreciate you answering what really wasn't meant to be answered. You're a trooper.

[Henry B 50]

[paleo 63]

The JW Endless poll site has become nothing but a lovefest of supposed 5 star scores.

They all can't be 5 stars, they cannot all be perfect.

Hoping that I understood what you actually meant, is it really so surprising that many here like many of JW's scores very much? Most of the polls concern his major works, and in most cases I would agree they are 5 star scores. if you need to see bad poll results, why don't you ask us to rate "presumed innocent" or the like? I think I am a John Williams fan because I consider the majority (but by no means all) of Williams's score vastly superior to what the competition usually has to offer.

Btw, what do you mean by "things are wrong when most people here rate Raiders better than E.T." (am confused, didn't you just say we consider everything 5 stars?)? I agree with that statement (E.T is too saccharine for my taste), so does that mean I'm a bad fan and should go to the Steve Jablonsky fansite instead?

[John Crichton 4]

We need a poll for this.

[Diego 21]

5 Star Willliams scores:

Jaws

Star Wars

TESB

Raiders

E.T.

RotJ

ToD

LC

Amazing Stories The Mission

Hook

HPSS

TPM

RotS

No Superman?? No CEO3K??

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

No matter the score, someone is going to rate a score 5 stars. Its a matter of which score gets MORE. I would never rate Stepmom 5 stars, but I bet a handful here would.

[Josh500 1,615]

I tell which scores I give 5 stars:

every Star Wars score

every Harry Potter score (by JW)

Jurassic Park

E.T.

Home Alone

Hook

Jaws 1+2

Indiana Jones 1-3

Schindler's List

Memoirs of a Geisha

That's it, really.

5 Star Willliams scores:

Jaws

Star Wars

TESB

Raiders

E.T.

RotJ

ToD

LC

Amazing Stories The Mission

Hook

HPSS

TPM

RotS

I didn't know The Mission was so good... never seen the episode, never heard the music.

[King Mark 3,631]

I think it reflects the new reality of the board. Before we were just comparing JW scores with other JW scores. Now we have to take into account how a JW score stands vs Zimmer/Lord of the Rings/Star Trek...etc..so more JW scores are automatic 4+stars.

KotCS vs other JW scores = 3.5. stars

KotCS vs Michael Giacchino = 4.5 stars

[Diego 21]

Sorry KM, but that's BS, a score can be graded as a separate entity, is you think the newest Giacchino score is crap, that's all right, but that won't make KOTCS any better.

And btw, and I know not many will agree, Up is much better than KOTCS.

[King Mark 3,631]

I don't think MG is crap. He is a good composer showing some promise ,but still far behind JW;'s current level of writing skill

Up sounds like granny music .There's some good action parts but that main theme kills it for me

[Josh500 1,615]

Point is, you should judge a score by its own merits... asking yourself, "How well does it function in the movie? How enjoyable is it?" Even, "How often do I listen to it?"

Comparing a score to E.T. and Empire Strikes Back is as unfair as comparing it to Giacchinno's output.

[Diego 21]

I don't think MG is crap. He is a good composer showing some promise ,but still far behind JW;'s current level of writing skill

Up sounds like granny music

Not my point, the thing is KOTCS is what it is, no matter what you compare it to.

[Joe Brausam 215]

One facet of Joey's argument that may not be immediately clear, but is certainly agreeable, is that the constant naming of Williams scores as masterpieces will in a way devalue his TRUE ones.

In other words, calling almost every Williams score a masterpiece diminishes the description when using it to describe his true master works. That's how I feel, anyway.

[Richard Penna 3,696]

I really don't give a flying f**k about these ratings.

All the same scores get the same unanimous 5 star ratings... so what's new? Where's the discussion?

I think it reflects the new reality of the board. Before we were just comparing JW scores with other JW scores. Now we have to take into account how a JW score stands vs Zimmer/Lord of the Rings/Star Trek...etc..so more JW scores are automatic 4+stars.

No, it reflects your continued fanboyism of Williams. Don't try to deny that.

I don't think MG is crap. He is a good composer showing some promise ,but still far behind JW;'s current level of writing skill

Up sounds like granny music .There's some good action parts but that main theme kills it for me

And you automatically know Williams would've written a much better score in a completely different style?

[Josh500 1,615]

One facet of Joey's argument that may not be immediately clear, but is certainly agreeable, is that the constant naming of Williams scores as masterpieces will in a way devalue his TRUE ones.

In other words, calling almost every Williams score a masterpiece diminishes the description when using it to describe his true master works. That's how I feel, anyway.

No, I disagree.

By your logic, it is not possible for a single person to produce many masterpieces. You're basically saying (for example), if 20 people produced 40 masterpieces it's OK. If JW wrote those 40 masterpieces by himself, it's not acceptable...

There's something wrong with that way of thinking.

[John Crichton 4]

Giacchino's Star Trek > Indy 4. And it's not even close.

[Joe Brausam 215]

No, it is possible to write many master works, but how then does one delineate the top-tier ones versus the lower-tier ones (it doesn't even sound possible to have a low-tier masterpiece!)?

And then we have multiple definitions of masterpiece too. On dictionary.com we have at least 2 good ones...

1. a person's greatest piece of work, as in an art.

2. anything done with masterly skill: a masterpiece of improvisation.

So what is Williams' masterpiece according to the first definition?

The second definition could encompass any great score(s) that Williams has written, but it does nothing to tell us which ones are truly his greatest.

[Josh500 1,615]

No, it is possible to write many master works, but how then does one delineate the top-tier ones versus the lower-tier ones (it doesn't even sound possible to have a low-tier masterpiece!)?

And then we have multiple definitions of masterpiece too. On dictionary.com we have at least 2 good ones...

1. a person's greatest piece of work, as in an art.

2. anything done with masterly skill: a masterpiece of improvisation.

So what is Williams' masterpiece according to the first definition?

The second definition could encompass any great score(s) that Williams has written, but it does nothing to tell us which ones are truly his greatest.

Well, when I say masterpiece I always mean 2. Something done with masterly skill.

When you mean 1, you should say it like that: Like E.T. and Empire (e.g.) are JW's greatest works of art (out of his canon).

[Nick Parker 3,040]

So what is Williams' masterpiece according to the first definition?

The magnum opus question, you mean?

Point is, you should judge a score by its own merits...

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought you said you judged the quality of a score by comparing it to others....

[Joe Brausam 215]

No, it is possible to write many master works, but how then does one delineate the top-tier ones versus the lower-tier ones (it doesn't even sound possible to have a low-tier masterpiece!)?

And then we have multiple definitions of masterpiece too. On dictionary.com we have at least 2 good ones...

1. a person's greatest piece of work, as in an art.

2. anything done with masterly skill: a masterpiece of improvisation.

So what is Williams' masterpiece according to the first definition?

The second definition could encompass any great score(s) that Williams has written, but it does nothing to tell us which ones are truly his greatest.

Well, when I say masterpiece I always mean 2. Something done with masterly skill.

When you mean 1, you should say it like that: Like E.T. and Empire (e.g.) are JW's greatest works of art (out of his canon).

Okay, well if we're going by definition 2 then I can agree with you.

It just seemed absurd to name a large number of scores for the first definition.

[Diego 21]

Giacchino's Star Trek > Indy 4. And it's not even close.

I agree, and it's probably not even Williams fault, just watch what he had to score. In his prime he probably could write awesome stuff for crap, now he probably doesn't care as much.

BTW, do you think Williams knows when he's composing for crap?? Do you think he goes "Oh my god, I can't believe he survived an atomic blast inside a fridge, what were you thinking Steven??" in his head??

[Josh500 1,615]

So what is Williams' masterpiece according to the first definition?

The magnum opus question, you mean?

His 4 Oscar scores...

Point is, you should judge a score by its own merits...

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought you said you judged the quality of a score by comparing it to others....

You are wrong and I forgive you. You need to know what's out there to know what's good-- OF COURSE. But you can still judge a score by its own merits, by not comparing it to any specific works.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Giacchino's Star Trek > Indy 4. And it's not even close.

I think you mistakenly typed '>' instead of '<'.

[indy4 155]

Point is, you should judge a score by its own merits... asking yourself, "How well does it function in the movie? How enjoyable is it?" Even, "How often do I listen to it?"

Comparing a score to E.T. and Empire Strikes Back is as unfair as comparing it to Giacchinno's output.

Uh, aren't the one who said we should rate all scores by comparing them to every other film score that we've heard?

I see Nick already beat me to it.

[Josh500 1,615]

Point is, you should judge a score by its own merits... asking yourself, "How well does it function in the movie? How enjoyable is it?" Even, "How often do I listen to it?"

Comparing a score to E.T. and Empire Strikes Back is as unfair as comparing it to Giacchinno's output.

Uh, aren't the one who said we should rate all scores by comparing them to every other film score that we've heard?

I see Nick already beat me to it.

Don't be so nearsighted!

You are wrong and I forgive you. You need to know what's out there to know what's good-- OF COURSE. But you can still judge a score by its own merits, by not comparing it to any specific works.

[John Crichton 4]

Giacchino's Star Trek > Indy 4. And it's not even close.

I think you mistakenly typed '>' instead of '<'.

Hmm...

No, I suck at math, but I think I got that one right.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Hm...

In second grade, my math teacher told me that the ">" was the mouth of a crocodile that eats whatever it points to,

Giacchino's Star Trek > Indy 4

... so therefore, Indiana Jones wins!

[indy4 155]

This is fun!

[Richard Penna 3,696]

Hm...

In second grade, my math teacher told me that the ">" was the mouth of a crocodile that eats whatever it points to,

Then your teacher was wrong!

At least in the programming world, '>' most definitely has the greater on the left.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Empire Strikes Back > Math.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Hm...

In second grade, my math teacher told me that the ">" was the mouth of a crocodile that eats whatever it points to,

Then your teacher was wrong!

At least in the programming world, '>' most definitely has the greater on the left.

Exactly, so which one would be more appealing to the crocodile?

[Maxxie 1]

BTW, do you think Williams knows when he's composing for crap?? Do you think he goes "Oh my god, I can't believe he survived an atomic blast inside a fridge, what were you thinking Steven??" in his head??

Why is everyone so obsessed with that bloody fridge?!

Williams probably doesn't even care. He still gets paid whether he writes a crap score or a good one, and people will still buy his albums, crap or not, won't they King Mark?

[Josh500 1,615]

BTW, do you think Williams knows when he's composing for crap?? Do you think he goes "Oh my god, I can't believe he survived an atomic blast inside a fridge, what were you thinking Steven??" in his head??

Why is everyone so obsessed with that bloody fridge?!

Williams probably doesn't even care. He still gets paid whether he writes a crap score or a good one, and people will still buy his albums, crap or not, won't they King Mark?

3 things:

1. Not everybody is obsessed with the fridge.

2. Williams doesn't do it for money. Hell, he's a millionaire many times over...

3. Of course he cares. He's human like the rest of us (or at least most of us).

[Diego 21]

The fridge thing came to mind cause KOTCS was in the conversation. I know he gets paid and all, but I'm pretty sure there must be times when he probably just wants to shake his head ans goes "I wish I could wish away my feelings?? dear god George learn how to write!". Knowing him he probably just smiles and says, "that's a nice scene George" in the spotting sessions, he seems to be very polite.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

As soon as George Lucas leaves the spotting room, I bet John Williams finds the nearest waste bucket and vomits.

(In all seriousness, I always wondered about this, too.)

[Charlie Brigden 7]

If he really cared that much he would have quit Star Wars after TPM.

[Josh500 1,615]

The fridge thing came to mind cause KOTCS was in the conversation. I know he gets paid and all, but I'm pretty sure there must be times when he probably just wants to shake his head ans goes "I wish I could wish away my feelings?? dear god George learn how to write!". Knowing him he probably just smiles and says, "that's a nice scene George" in the spotting sessions, he seems to be very polite.

I bet he's thinking something like, "Dear God. Do I have to do everything here to make the scenes work??"

If he really cared that much he would have quit Star Wars after TPM.

Why would he quit if he cared?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

The fridge thing came to mind cause KOTCS was in the conversation. I know he gets paid and all, but I'm pretty sure there must be times when he probably just wants to shake his head ans goes "I wish I could wish away my feelings?? dear god George learn how to write!". Knowing him he probably just smiles and says, "that's a nice scene George" in the spotting sessions, he seems to be very polite.

I bet he's thinking something like, "Dear God. Do I have to do everything here to make the scenes work??"

If he really cared that much he would have quit Star Wars after TPM.

Why would he quit if he cared?

Because he wouldn't have had his memory of the series tarnished? As an ultimatum to George to make sure he doesn't screw around with his music anymore? Any number of creative reasons. Instead he let Lucas take him for granted.

[Josh500 1,615]

The fridge thing came to mind cause KOTCS was in the conversation. I know he gets paid and all, but I'm pretty sure there must be times when he probably just wants to shake his head ans goes "I wish I could wish away my feelings?? dear god George learn how to write!". Knowing him he probably just smiles and says, "that's a nice scene George" in the spotting sessions, he seems to be very polite.

I bet he's thinking something like, "Dear God. Do I have to do everything here to make the scenes work??"

If he really cared that much he would have quit Star Wars after TPM.

Why would he quit if he cared?

Because he wouldn't have had his memory of the series tarnished? As an ultimatum to George to make sure he doesn't screw around with his music anymore? Any number of creative reasons. Instead he let Lucas take him for granted.

In all seriousness, I think he continued just because he cared. He wanted to finish the series himself... and not have, say, Hans Zimmer do the Revenge of the Sith.

[Jeshopk 8]

I think JW is underrated.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Riiggghht.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

You need to know what's out there to know what's good-- OF COURSE. But you can still judge a score by its own merits, by not comparing it to any specific works.

If you judge it as a single entity then it automatically and unjustly gets a higher rating.

[King Mark 3,631]

So this thread hasn't self imploded yet?

[Ollie 1,059]

I love Joe.

There are only 5 or 6 JW scores that truly rank as all time greats.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

There are only 5 or 6 JW scores that truly rank as all time greats.

Yep.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Giacchino's Star Trek > Indy 4. And it's not even close.

no.

they are both mediocre scores. Except for MG thats good for him, as his reach is so short.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Except for MG thats good for him, as his reach is so short.

Compensating much?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

are you insinuating that I have a small endowment, because statistically speaking gay men have generally larger endowments (and in this case the stats are accurate). That aside I mean that John's musical reach is, has been, and forever will be longer than MG who is having a less than spectacular summer.