So, what JW scores are not 5 stars, are not masterpieces, they all cannot be?

[John Crichton 4]

Giacchino's Star Trek > Indy 4. And it's not even close.

no.

they are both mediocre scores.

You're half right.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

JC, I just saw Star Trek again today, and the score is best when Alexander Courage's theme is playing.

MG fails dismally to create a score in the same range as JG, or JH.

And to be honest I did want him to succeed. I really did. It would make the film better.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Giacchino's Star Trek > Indy 4. And it's not even close.

no.

they are both mediocre scores.

You're half right.

Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is not a mediocre score. Few by John Williams are. If the 5 star rating is overused around here, so is the word "mediocre" and its equivalents in reference to Williams.

[Henry B 50]

You all remind me of those rabid, middle aged Red Sox fans who riot in the streets when the Yankees win and threaten to disown their children if they don't vehemently support the home team. No, seriously, these threads are fucking hilarious. I'll call this the JWFan Civil War! On one side, the Loyalists: they think Raiders of the Lost Ark is really good. On the other side, their bitter enemies, the Separatists: they think Raiders of the Lost Ark is really, REALLY good! The conflict began with a tragic incident in which militant Separatists declared that The Empire Strikes Back is better than Star Wars, which sent shockwaves through the Loyalist territories, decimating homes and tearing families apart. The wounded Loyalists struck back, declaring that E.T. is Williams' greatest film score. The Separatists, devastated by an attack on their home soil, began to question the workings of the five-star rating system. This caused a schism in the Separatist ranks, further weakening their beleaguered forces. After the decisive Battle of the Five-Note Signal, the war was ended when Joey delivered the historic Shut the Hell Up and Listen to Me Address, declaring that all unauthorized opinions would be freed from their owners immediately. Reluctant free thinkers ignored the Address, swayed by the charismatic words of the Anti-Christ. Next, the clouds parted and the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse appeared ...

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

WOW Henry! You actually made me fall asleep!

[John Crichton 4]

Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is not a mediocre score.

You're right, it wasn't fair to say that. It's a decent score with some really good parts. I was more making the point about how good I think Giacchino's Star Trek is. The more I listen to it the more I want to listen to it, whereas with Indy 4 I listen to it once or twice then put it away again for a while.

You all remind me of those rabid, middle aged Red Sox fans who riot in the streets when the Yankees win and threaten to disown their children if they don't vehemently support the home team. No, seriously, these threads are fucking hilarious. I'll call this the JWFan Civil War! On one side, the Loyalists: they think Raiders of the Lost Ark is really good. On the other side, their bitter enemies, the Separatists: they think Raiders of the Lost Ark is really, REALLY good! The conflict began with a tragic incident in which militant Separatists declared that The Empire Strikes Back is better than Star Wars, which sent shockwaves through the Loyalist territories, decimating homes and tearing families apart. The wounded Loyalists struck back, declaring that E.T. is Williams' greatest film score. The Separatists, devastated by an attack on their home soil, began to question the workings of the five-star rating system. This caused a schism in the Separatist ranks, further weakening their beleaguered forces. After the decisive Battle of the Five-Note Signal, the war was ended when Joey delivered the historic Shut the Hell Up and Listen to Me Address, declaring that all unauthorized opinions would be freed from their owners immediately. Reluctant free thinkers ignored the Address, swayed by the charismatic words of the Anti-Christ. Next, the clouds parted and the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse appeared ...

[indy4 155]

[Hlao-roo 389]

You all remind me of those rabid, middle aged Red Sox fans who riot in the streets when the Yankees win and threaten to disown their children if they don't vehemently support the home team. No, seriously, these threads are fucking hilarious. I'll call this the JWFan Civil War! On one side, the Loyalists: they think Raiders of the Lost Ark is really good. On the other side, their bitter enemies, the Separatists: they think Raiders of the Lost Ark is really, REALLY good! The conflict began with a tragic incident in which militant Separatists declared that The Empire Strikes Back is better than Star Wars, which sent shockwaves through the Loyalist territories, decimating homes and tearing families apart. The wounded Loyalists struck back, declaring that E.T. is Williams' greatest film score. The Separatists, devastated by an attack on their home soil, began to question the workings of the five-star rating system. This caused a schism in the Separatist ranks, further weakening their beleaguered forces. After the decisive Battle of the Five-Note Signal, the war was ended when Joey delivered the historic Shut the Hell Up and Listen to Me Address, declaring that all unauthorized opinions would be freed from their owners immediately. Reluctant free thinkers ignored the Address, swayed by the charismatic words of the Anti-Christ. Next, the clouds parted and the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse appeared ...

I thought you were asleep!

[crumbs 14,319]

Indy 4 is hardly mediocre! It's no less than 3.5 star score, with some standout action cues (definitely among Williams' best action cues since Lost World), and strong themes. I think if the film weren't so dreadful, people would think of the score much higher. Ultimately, where the film falls flat are the long stretches of dull exposition and pedestrian direction (namely from after the motorcycle chase until the Jungle chase, an awfully long stretch of film without any action/character revelations). Williams can't work miracles with awfully directed material; it's no surprise that the dullest stretch of music is during this period of the film. You could wipe every cue from "To Peru" up to "Snake Pit" and I wouldn't bat an eyelid. Dull, painful underscore even by Williams' standard, which brings the score down a whole lot.

But there's at least 60-70 minutes of very strong music in the score, up there with the likes of Jurassic Park and Last Crusade at least.

[crocodile 8,020]

are you insinuating that I have a small endowment, because statistically speaking gay men have generally larger endowments (and in this case the stats are accurate).

Good for you, Joe.

Karol

[A24 4,346]

I love Joe.

We love what we recognize.

[Ollie 1,059]

Well I was always attracted to level headed people.

[Hitch 57]

You all remind me of those rabid, middle aged Red Sox fans who riot in the streets when the Yankees win and threaten to disown their children if they don't vehemently support the home team. No, seriously, these threads are fucking hilarious. I'll call this the JWFan Civil War! On one side, the Loyalists: they think Raiders of the Lost Ark is really good. On the other side, their bitter enemies, the Separatists: they think Raiders of the Lost Ark is really, REALLY good! The conflict began with a tragic incident in which militant Separatists declared that The Empire Strikes Back is better than Star Wars, which sent shockwaves through the Loyalist territories, decimating homes and tearing families apart. The wounded Loyalists struck back, declaring that E.T. is Williams' greatest film score. The Separatists, devastated by an attack on their home soil, began to question the workings of the five-star rating system. This caused a schism in the Separatist ranks, further weakening their beleaguered forces. After the decisive Battle of the Five-Note Signal, the war was ended when Joey delivered the historic Shut the Hell Up and Listen to Me Address, declaring that all unauthorized opinions would be freed from their owners immediately. Reluctant free thinkers ignored the Address, swayed by the charismatic words of the Anti-Christ. Next, the clouds parted and the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse appeared ...

Have you thought about running for office?

[Josh500 1,615]

You all remind me of those rabid, middle aged Red Sox fans who riot in the streets when the Yankees win and threaten to disown their children if they don't vehemently support the home team. No, seriously, these threads are fucking hilarious. I'll call this the JWFan Civil War! On one side, the Loyalists: they think Raiders of the Lost Ark is really good. On the other side, their bitter enemies, the Separatists: they think Raiders of the Lost Ark is really, REALLY good! The conflict began with a tragic incident in which militant Separatists declared that The Empire Strikes Back is better than Star Wars, which sent shockwaves through the Loyalist territories, decimating homes and tearing families apart. The wounded Loyalists struck back, declaring that E.T. is Williams' greatest film score. The Separatists, devastated by an attack on their home soil, began to question the workings of the five-star rating system. This caused a schism in the Separatist ranks, further weakening their beleaguered forces. After the decisive Battle of the Five-Note Signal, the war was ended when Joey delivered the historic Shut the Hell Up and Listen to Me Address, declaring that all unauthorized opinions would be freed from their owners immediately. Reluctant free thinkers ignored the Address, swayed by the charismatic words of the Anti-Christ. Next, the clouds parted and the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse appeared ...

Wow, you write better than George Lucas. Who would have thunk that?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It's not that hard to write better than George Lucas. Most people on this board probably can.

[mahler3 478]

I didn't know The Mission was so good... never seen the episode, never heard the music.

It is Josh - seek it out. The Varese RSNO is good and very cheap but the Intrada original is far superior if you can shell out a few more quid.

This thread is great, good way to start the day at work!

[Charlie Brigden 7]

It's not that hard to write better than George Lucas. Most people on this board probably can.

Ok, homework assignment: write a script as good as AMERICAN GRAFFITI or STAR WARS.

[A24 4,346]

It's not that hard to write better than George Lucas. Most people on this board probably can.

Ok, homework assignment: write a script as good as AMERICAN GRAFFITI or STAR WARS.

I think Lucas stole those scripts from a street bum (who still doesn't know his stories are famous movies now).

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It was the Journal of the Whills that fell from the sky into his backyard.

[SF1_freeze 131]

Indy 4 is hardly mediocre! It's no less than 3.5 star score, with some standout action cues (definitely among Williams' best action cues since Lost World), and strong themes. I think if the film weren't so dreadful, people would think of the score much higher. Ultimately, where the film falls flat are the long stretches of dull exposition and pedestrian direction (namely from after the motorcycle chase until the Jungle chase, an awfully long stretch of film without any action/character revelations). Williams can't work miracles with awfully directed material; it's no surprise that the dullest stretch of music is during this period of the film. You could wipe every cue from "To Peru" up to "Snake Pit" and I wouldn't bat an eyelid. Dull, painful underscore even by Williams' standard, which brings the score down a whole lot.

But there's at least 60-70 minutes of very strong music in the score, up there with the likes of Jurassic Park and Last Crusade at least.

The score for Brokeback Mountain had about 60 minutes score and won the oscar (Crazy Academy i know). So the 60-70 minutes of very strong Crystal Skull music

is more than enough to love the score and rate it at least solid 4. There are tons of scores which only have 10-20 minutes outstanding music...( In case of the new Star Trek, just the end credits with the

TV series theme)

[King Mark 3,631]

It's funny that people bring down KotCS for the boring middle cues and hail Star Trek for the End Credits and 2 or 3 other good cues

[Charlie Brigden 7]

It's funny that people bring down KotCS for the boring middle cues and hail Star Trek for the End Credits and 2 or 3 other good cues

Yeah, I'd rather they brought down KOTCS for the boring action and middle cues and hail STAR TREK for the superior non-end credit cues.

[Josh500 1,615]

It's not that hard to write better than George Lucas. Most people on this board probably can.

Some people here tend to overestimate Spielberg (maybe understandably), and underestimate Lucas...

And then there are the people who misestimate both!

I didn't know The Mission was so good... never seen the episode, never heard the music.

It is Josh - seek it out. The Varese RSNO is good and very cheap but the Intrada original is far superior if you can shell out a few more quid.

This thread is great, good way to start the day at work!

Yeah, I will. Are the DVDs also worth getting?

[A24 4,346]

Spielberg, Lucas, Spielberg, Lucas, Spielberg, Lucas .... you people are living in the wrong decade!

[Josh500 1,615]

Spielberg, Lucas, Spielberg, Lucas, Spielberg, Lucas .... you people are living in the wrong decade!

And you apparently live on the wrong MB!

[A24 4,346]

George Lucas about his film(s): "All that will remain is the music."

And that's why I'm here.

Alex

[Josh500 1,615]

George Lucas about his film(s): "All that will remain is the music."

And that's why I'm here.

Alex

Hmmm, maybe, but we shouldn't forget... the music wouldn't have been written if it weren't for Lucas and Spielberg.

Lucas may be a pain sometimes, but he is still great, IMHO.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Michael Bay is the present and future!

[A24 4,346]

George Lucas about his film(s): "All that will remain is the music."

And that's why I'm here.

Alex

Hmmm, maybe, but we shouldn't forget... the music wouldn't have been written if it weren't for Lucas and Spielberg.

Lucas may be a pain sometimes, but he is still great, IMHO.

Imagine that Williams worked more for other directors and less for Lucas and Spielberg. Would you be here at JWFan, Josh500? I know I would. For you see, I'm here for the man himself, not for the Potter, Star Wars, Indy or Jurassic Park films. Who can say the same?

Who? (endless echo in an empty chamber)

Alex

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I wouldn't mind him scoring another DePalma film.

[Josh500 1,615]

Imagine that Williams worked more for other directors and less for Lucas and Spielberg. Would you be here at JWFan, Josh500? I know I would.

That's an asinine assumption. No one can say what would have been...

Fact is, though, Williams's career skyrocketed thanks to Spielberg and Lucas.

For you see, I'm here for the man himself, not for the Potter, Star Wars, Indy or Jurassic Park films. Who can say the same?

Who? (endless echo in an empty chamber)

I don't get you. So you're saying you like older guys with black turtleneck sweaters?

I admire JW because of his music (film works as well as concert works). Period.

[Ollie 1,059]

He's here because Williams composes music other than Star Wars, HP & IJ.

[A24 4,346]

Imagine that Williams worked more for other directors and less for Lucas and Spielberg. Would you be here at JWFan, Josh500? I know I would.

That's an asinine assumption. No one can say what would have been...

Could it be that the movies of Spielberg and Lucas destroyed your imagination, Josh500? Because it's actually pretty easy for me to imagine. It would've been less Raiders, less Prequels and what have you. I often feel Williams wasted his talent on them.

Fact is, though, Williams's career skyrocketed thanks to Spielberg and Lucas.

True, but sometimes an artist has to move on to explore new things.

Alex

[Josh500 1,615]

Imagine that Williams worked more for other directors and less for Lucas and Spielberg. Would you be here at JWFan, Josh500? I know I would.

That's an asinine assumption. No one can say what would have been...

Could it be that the movies of Spielberg and Lucas destroyed your imagination, Josh500? Because it's actually pretty easy for me to imagine. It would've been less Raiders, less Prequels and what have you. I often feel Williams wasted his talent on them.

So you're basically saying what you imagine had to have happened...

Fact is, though, Williams's career skyrocketed thanks to Spielberg and Lucas.

True, but sometimes an artist has to move on to explore new things.

[Ollie 1,059]

It's funny that people bring down KotCS for the boring middle cues and hail Star Trek for the End Credits and 2 or 3 other good cues

Yeah, I'd rather they brought down KOTCS for the boring action and middle cues and hail STAR TREK for the superior non-end credit cues.

And here I thought I was praising the entire Star Trek score. But apparently it was only the End Credits.

Because it's impossible for anyone to compose something better.

[MrScratch 294]

I'm here for the man himself, not for the Potter, Star Wars, Indy or Jurassic Park films. Who can say the same?

Who? (endless echo in an empty chamber)

No echo here. I can't speak for anyone else, but Star Wars, Indy, Jaws & Superman are the reason I discovered Williams. For anyone who grew up in the 70s & 80s, how could you not? Of course I still like a lot of those movies, but there was a time when I considered Last Crusade & Return of the Jedi to be the greatest movies of all time. I've grown up and my tastes have evolved and I appreciate those movies for what they are: enjoyable but inferior sequels with numerous flaws. Lucas & Spielberg brought me to the dance, but I went home with Williams.

Ok, was that an awkward analogy..?

[Josh500 1,615]

I'm here for the man himself, not for the Potter, Star Wars, Indy or Jurassic Park films. Who can say the same?

Who? (endless echo in an empty chamber)

No echo here. I can't speak for anyone else, but Star Wars, Indy, Jaws & Superman are the reason I discovered Williams. For anyone who grew up in the 70s & 80s, how could you not? Of course I still like a lot of those movies, but there was a time when I considered Last Crusade & Return of the Jedi to be the greatest movies of all time. I've grown up and my tastes have evolved and I appreciate those movies for what they are: enjoyable but inferior sequels with numerous flaws. Lucas & Spielberg brought me to the dance, but I went home with Williams.

Ok, was that an awkward analogy..?

Seems like lots of guys here have a major crush on Williams...!

Could it be that the movies of Spielberg and Lucas destroyed your imagination, Josh500? Because it's actually pretty easy for me to imagine. It would've been less Raiders, less Prequels and what have you. I often feel Williams wasted his talent on them.

Oh, actually it wouldn't have been "less" Raiders, etc.

It would have been no Jaws, no Star Wars, no Indiana Jones, no Schindler's List, no E.T., no Jurassic Park...

[MrScratch 294]

Seems like lots of guys here have a major crush on Williams...!

...I want to dip his bald head in oil and rub it all over my body...

[Josh500 1,615]

Seems like lots of guys here have a major crush on Williams...!

...I want to dip his bald head in oil and rub it all over my body...

Yeah, like you had a chance!

[A24 4,346]

We know his work sounds different if he writes for Oliver Stone or Alan Parker. I say more of those and less Raiders and less Prequels! Who's with me?! (endless echo in an empty hall) How would Williams sound if he would do a score for Steven Soderbergh, for instance? Doesn't that sound intriguing to you guys? (hey, where is everybody?)

New horizons, different challenges!

Alex

[MrScratch 294]

We know his work sounds different if he writes for Oliver Stone or Alan Parker. I say more of those and less Raiders and less Prequels! Who's with me?! (endless echo in an empty hall) How would Williams sound if he would do a score for Steven Soderbergh, for instance? Doesn't that sound intriguing to you guys? (hey, where is everybody?)

New horizons, different challenges!

I'm with you, I'm one of the ones that wants the Lincoln thing to happen. I'd like to hear a Civil War score from JW. I also would love for him to work with more directors besides just Spielberg. Realistically though, I don't think it is going to happen. He's retired except for Steven.

[crocodile 8,020]

Yeah, I agree too. Too much comfort zone in the last 10 years or so.

Karol - who thinks KOTCS is way better than the new ST score.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Giacchino's Star Trek > Indy 4. And it's not even close.

Much as I hate to disagree with a fellow Who fan, I thought the new Star Trek score was by far the weakest part of the film. That silly heroic theme over and over again. A neopolitan 6th chord gets extremely old if it's over used.

[A24 4,346]

This Star Trek film you speak of doesn't sound very subtle.

[King Mark 3,631]

We know his work sounds different if he writes for Oliver Stone or Alan Parker. I say more of those and less Raiders and less Prequels! Who's with me?! (endless echo in an empty hall) How would Williams sound if he would do a score for Steven Soderbergh, for instance? Doesn't that sound intriguing to you guys? (hey, where is everybody?)

New horizons, different challenges!

Alex

It because your a film snob. Williams best scores (and best music as a composer) are the ones you dismiss. In 100 years ,if they still play something of JW at concert halls ,it will be the "Star Wars Symphony" and stuff like The Raiders March

[crocodile 8,020]

I think all he said is that Williams' needs more variety. And countless Potter, SW, Jones movies don't seem to interest him too much anymore. Nor do they offer any challange.

Karol

[King Mark 3,631]

We view things in a different way.

He thinks the only way he can be better as an artist is to come out with a new sound for his next score. When Williams "tries too hard" to write serious music it doesn't work IMO.

I think he should stay with his most classic style to further enhance his greatness .

[A24 4,346]

And I already heard Star Wars in the 1977 and the Raiders March in 1980. Move on, Williams! Dare to say 'no' to Lucas next time.

[crocodile 8,020]

We view things in a different way.

He thinks the only way he can be better as an artist is to come out with a new sound for his next score. When Williams "tries too hard" to write serious music it doesn't work IMO.

I think he should stay with his most classic style to further enhance his greatness .

Maybe, but then again he won't enhance anything writing another sequel scores. If anything he should at least write new music. Tintin might be a good opportunity to do that.

Or try another director. Remember the first Potter score? And then remember the third? That's what I'm talking about.

Karol

[King Mark 3,631]

And I already heard Star Wars in the 1977 and the Raiders March in 1980. Move on, Williams! Dare to say 'no' to Lucas next time.

I think you want Williams to morph into something he's not ,or beyond his ability. For me it's good enough that he is the best ever at a particular genre .Nobody can do an adventure score like Williams