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For as expensive as everything else looked, the engine room didn't make any sense. For one thing, the room looks way too big to fit inside the Enterprise. Ok, use a beer bottling plant to save cost, but all the water tanks and pipes don't belong there. What use does a dilithium or anti-matter powered starship have for that much water? Water cooling? If all that water is for the treatment and recycling of the drinking and toilet water, then it's not the engine room, which would have been better served with a more traditional warp core. It seems like it's only there to set up Scotty's role as comic relief, both being dragged through the system and then dripping all over the bridge.

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For as expensive as everything else looked, the engine room didn't make any sense. For one thing, the room looks way too big to fit inside the Enterprise. Ok, use a beer bottling plant to save cost, but all the water tanks and pipes don't belong there. What use does a dilithium or anti-matter powered starship have for that much water? Water cooling? If all that water is for the treatment and recycling of the drinking and toilet water, then it's not the engine room, which would have been better served with a more traditional warp core. It seems like it's only there to set up Scotty's role as comic relief, both being dragged through the system and then dripping all over the bridge.

It's like they forgot to include engineering sets in the budget, ran out of money and needed a a quick backup plan. "Yeah, we'll just go and use the Budweiser plant, just stick their name in the film somewhere."

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"For once" I'm the oddball? You really don't know me very well, man. bowdown I've been the oddball my whole life. And as I've already stated, I was initially mildly disappointed with Star Trek. I seem to recall you being more enthusiastic about it at the time than I was. It was only as I thought about it and re-watched it several times that I realized how thoroughly I enjoyed it, despite some flaws. I'm hoping the same will happen for me with Avatar. Better to be unimpressed with a film at first and then love it the rest of your life than vice versa, eh?

Not necessarily because then I'd be stuck loving AOTC. I saw it at a sneak preview and intially thought wow.

That's your true feelings.

Your nowadays opinion is just the result of going with the more common opinion, for shame of being mocked off.

Search your feelings. You know it to be true ;)

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That's your true feelings.

Your nowadays opinion is just the result of going with the more common opinion, for shame of being mocked off.

Search your feelings. You know it to be true bowdown

The force is not with you young Skywalker.

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Back to Avatar...anybody else think it was weird how during the

bombing of the Home Tree the natives' arrows bounced off the windows, but during the battle they pierced straight through and still had enough force to go deep into the people's bodies?

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That was because

the Na'vi were diving downward toward said windows as they fired, thereby giving them enough net velocity to break through.

I'm serious. Sorta. bowdown I did think about that when I saw that scene, and that was the best explanation I could come up with.

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I thought it was even more weird that Indiana Jones was able to survive a nuclear blast by getting inside a fridge.

It was so weird, that I seriously considered walking out of the film after that scene.

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Is the bonus track on all versions of the CD (i.e. UK vs US for example)?

Haven't got round to buying this yet and the bonus track just about justifies buying a real CD.

If by a bonus track you mean the piece from the Avatar soundtrack site called Into the Na'Vi World, which is about 1;35 long, it is not on the CD and has been erroneously named a bonus track in the versions floating on the internet. As far as I know it is not available on CD. And I agree, it is a great short piece.

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I thought it was even more weird that Indiana Jones was able to survive a nuclear blast by getting inside a fridge.

It was so weird, that I seriously considered walking out of the film after that scene.

If Indiana Jones had died in that scene, like he should have, you would have been walking out of the film after that scene anyways.

Unless Sallah shows up out of the blue and flies his corpse back to Grail Central, and Indy would have been back for the rest of the film.

Six one, half dozen the other.

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That was because

the Na'vi were diving downward toward said windows as they fired, thereby giving them enough net velocity to break through.

I'm serious. Sorta. ;) I did think about that when I saw that scene, and that was the best explanation I could come up with.

It is the proper explanation. It doesn't even take a genius to figure that out. Perhaps indy4 didn't notice that when they broke the glass the shooters were also much closer.

the scene with Indy and the nuclear bomb is the single most stupid sequence in all of Spielbergs movies. Indy4 can enjoy it for it's stupid corny ignorant fun, and thats cool, but it is indefensable in any real world happening. In the real world Indiana Jones died. You can pick whatever you want that killed him. The radiation despite the lead? The concussion of the blast? The heat from the blast? Vaporization from the blast? But it's a lucas/spielberg film of the 00's, common sense be damned.

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And in this "real world," the Ark of the Covenant is buried under a thirty foot thick wall of concrete protected by armed guards, if it even still exists. There are no glowing rocks that let a human heart exit the body and keep it alive. There is no cup that can cure a would-be fatal gunshot, let alone another that can turn a man to dust in 13.4 seconds.

Indiana Jones does not live in the real world.

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That was because

the Na'vi were diving downward toward said windows as they fired, thereby giving them enough net velocity to break through.

I'm serious. Sorta. ;) I did think about that when I saw that scene, and that was the best explanation I could come up with.

It is the proper explanation. It doesn't even take a genius to figure that out. Perhaps indy4 didn't notice that when they broke the glass the shooters were also much closer.

the scene with Indy and the nuclear bomb is the single most stupid sequence in all of Spielbergs movies. Indy4 can enjoy it for it's stupid corny ignorant fun, and thats cool, but it is indefensable in any real world happening. In the real world Indiana Jones died. You can pick whatever you want that killed him. The radiation despite the lead? The concussion of the blast? The heat from the blast? Vaporization from the blast? But it's a lucas/spielberg film of the 00's, common sense be damned.

While I'm not trying to defend the film, it's no more ludicrous than putting an oxygen tank in a shark's mouth and shooting at it to kill said shark.

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Is the bonus track on all versions of the CD (i.e. UK vs US for example)?

Haven't got round to buying this yet and the bonus track just about justifies buying a real CD.

If by a bonus track you mean the piece from the Avatar soundtrack site called Into the Na'Vi World, which is about 1;35 long, it is not on the CD and has been erroneously named a bonus track in the versions floating on the internet. As far as I know it is not available on CD. And I agree, it is a great short piece.

Ah ok, thanks Mikko. I like the score enough to buy, but it doesn't quite deserve a physical presence on my shelf ;)

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And in this "real world," the Ark of the Covenant is buried under a thirty foot thick wall of concrete protected by armed guards, if it even still exists. There are no glowing rocks that let a human heart exit the body and keep it alive. There is no cup that can cure a would-be fatal gunshot, let alone another that can turn a man to dust in 13.4 seconds.

Indiana Jones does not live in the real world.

no but an atomic blast is a real life event, and in the film it's portrayed as if Indiana Jones is Willie Coyote.

the other events are not "real world" but we know the "real world" effects of a nuclear blast.

And Charlie you're quite wrong. The shark tank may have recently been proven not possible in Mythbusters but in 1974 no one knew that.

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While I'm not trying to defend the film, it's no more ludicrous than putting an oxygen tank in a shark's mouth and shooting at it to kill said shark.

Anything would be better than to simply have the shark die of a heart attack or stress, instead of letting the hero kill the shark.

no but an atomic blast is a real life event, and in the film it's portrayed as if Indiana Jones is Willie Coyote.

And why not? He's going up against Marvin the Interdimensional Martian.

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And in this "real world," the Ark of the Covenant is buried under a thirty foot thick wall of concrete protected by armed guards, if it even still exists. There are no glowing rocks that let a human heart exit the body and keep it alive. There is no cup that can cure a would-be fatal gunshot, let alone another that can turn a man to dust in 13.4 seconds.

Indiana Jones does not live in the real world.

no but an atomic blast is a real life event, and in the film it's portrayed as if Indiana Jones is Willie Coyote.

the other events are not "real world" but we know the "real world" effects of a nuclear blast.

And Charlie you're quite wrong. The shark tank may have recently been proven not possible in Mythbusters but in 1974 no one knew that.

Benchley and Spielberg knew it. Spielberg told Benchley that if he made the film well enough, people would believe anything that happened, and he was right. But my point is rather that films are not the place to look if you're after plausible realism. In certain regards, JAWS is full of shit, but it's a great film so it matters not.

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the scene with Indy and the nuclear bomb is the single most stupid sequence in all of Spielbergs movies. Indy4 can enjoy it for it's stupid corny ignorant fun, and thats cool, but it is indefensable in any real world happening. In the real world Indiana Jones died. You can pick whatever you want that killed him. The radiation despite the lead? The concussion of the blast? The heat from the blast? Vaporization from the blast? But it's a lucas/spielberg film of the 00's, common sense be damned.

That's not true... Of course he would have died in the real world but please wake up. It is an Indiana Jones movie and if you would watch for example Temple of Doom again you would realize:

No one can survive a 500m fall in a rubber raft!!!!!!

No one can survive a Mine Car chase with a JUMP in between!!!!!

No one can survive an escape from 10000 gallons water!!!!!!

Lava kills you if you are so close to it like Willie Scott because of the poisonous gas and the heat!!!!!

A Plane crashes immediately if it comes in contact with a mountain top!!!!!

There is no holy grail and no ark of the covenant and there are no burning Sankara Stones!!!

Lava, 500m , 10000gallons water are real life events too!

You accept all those things about the older movies and bash KOTCS for the SAME things

surviving a nuclear blast in a fridge

swinging on vines

surviving three falls down a river

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And in this "real world," the Ark of the Covenant is buried under a thirty foot thick wall of concrete protected by armed guards, if it even still exists. There are no glowing rocks that let a human heart exit the body and keep it alive. There is no cup that can cure a would-be fatal gunshot, let alone another that can turn a man to dust in 13.4 seconds.

Indiana Jones does not live in the real world.

no but an atomic blast is a real life event, and in the film it's portrayed as if Indiana Jones is Willie Coyote.

the other events are not "real world" but we know the "real world" effects of a nuclear blast.

And Charlie you're quite wrong. The shark tank may have recently been proven not possible in Mythbusters but in 1974 no one knew that.

Benchley and Spielberg knew it. Spielberg told Benchley that if he made the film well enough, people would believe anything that happened, and he was right. But my point is rather that films are not the place to look if you're after plausible realism. In certain regards, JAWS is full of shit, but it's a great film so it matters not.

where is Jaws full of shit? the way the shark reacts to the humans? I don't see how. there are plenty of "real" life events involving great whites that are eerily similar to events in Jaws. It is not uncommon for a great white to attack a boat. Benchley and Spielberg had no idea that a compressed air tank would not explode. Benchley isn't even part of that equation as he is not the writer of the film Jaws.

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Benchley isn't even part of that equation as he is not the writer of the film Jaws.

Excuse me?

Full cast and crew for

Jaws (1975) More at IMDbPro ยป

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Directed by

Steven Spielberg

Writing credits

Peter Benchley (screenplay) and

Carl Gottlieb (screenplay)

Peter Benchley (novel)

John Milius Indianapolis monologue (uncredited)

Howard Sackler Indianapolis monologue (uncredited)

Robert Shaw Indianapolis monologue (uncredited)

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where is Jaws full of shit? the way the shark reacts to the humans? I don't see how. there are plenty of "real" life events involving great whites that are eerily similar to events in Jaws. It is not uncommon for a great white to attack a boat. Benchley and Spielberg had no idea that a compressed air tank would not explode. Benchley isn't even part of that equation as he is not the writer of the film Jaws.

He wrote the original drafts for the film, which is where all that came from. This is all on the (great) making of, by the way.

And it depends what your definition of attacking is. Do they test the boats and give them a little bite? Sure. Do they jump on the stern like Michael Jordan? No.

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wrong Charlie, there have been incidents of Great White's and other types of sharks jumping into the boats. Whether accidentally or on purpose it has happened. It even seems far less fantastic now given what has been learned about Great Whites jumping completely out of the water.

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wrong Charlie, there have been incidents of Great White's and other types of sharks jumping into the boats. Whether accidentally or on purpose it has happened. It even seems far less fantastic now given what has been learned about Great Whites jumping completely out of the water.

Other sharks, sure, Makos are notorious for it. I get what you mean because of the recent discovery of GW's breaching, but it doesn't seem plausible to me, especially with the size of the animal and that breaching only ever occurs as a side effect of the shark lunging at its prey during a chase. But as I said, it doesn't matter, because the movie is well made and well written (whether by Benchley, Gottlieb, Spielberg or Sackler) enough to make it work.

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I've said it before but the reason the stunts in the first 3 Indiana Jones films work it because most of them involve real objects, actors and stunt people, not some CGI image. And Jones is usually in bad shape after those said episodes.

But in KOTCS we have a tired 60 year old man who suddenly becomes superhuman and can do all kinds of amazing stuff and just walk away with no side effects.

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...and Shia swinging with some cg monkeys against a horrible fake jungle background.

Back in '81 they'd have found a couple of crazies who would've jumped at the chance to stage a sword fight atop two fast moving vehicles for real.

That's the sort of shit which made the old Indy movies so friggin' awesome. Lucas and Spielberg completely missed the point and should've left it alone.

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But in KOTCS we have a tired 60 year old man who suddenly becomes superhuman and can do all kinds of amazing stuff and just walk away with no side effects.

Even though I have the same problem with accepting this, it is also true that this 60 year old man actually performs these stunts himself. And most of these objects and sets are also real. Strange, but true.

Karol

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Yes, well, the character of Indiana Jones remarked about his age being a factor in his adventures even during his very first adventure, Raiders of the Lost Ark ("It's the years, not the mileage"). 27 years prior. He looked tired and bored in Return of the Jedi; maybe KOTCS was more like that experience than TLC.

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He was bored in Jedi because he loathes the character of Han Solo and wanted him to die a hero's death. In a recent interview, at the time KOTCS was released, Ford declared Solo to be as dumb as a stump and relies on pure luck to get by.

He loves the character of Indiana Jones though.

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If anyone has a reason to be grumpy about the effect Star Wars had on his or her career, it would be Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher. While Harrison Ford will always be known as Han Solo and Indiana Jones, he has a plethora of other memorable movie roles under his hat. I can't say the same for the other two.

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I've said it before but the reason the stunts in the first 3 Indiana Jones films work it because most of them involve real objects, actors and stunt people, not some CGI image. And Jones is usually in bad shape after those said episodes.

But in KOTCS we have a tired 60 year old man who suddenly becomes superhuman and can do all kinds of amazing stuff and just walk away with no side effects.

I think whether it's real or CG is irrelevant. Some moments in the original films were pretty obviously faked (e.g. Mola Ram's composited death shot), but it was fine because the audience had already accepted that the film wasn't real. Because it's, you know, a film. So if one impossible event is depicted, why not another impossible event? What's the difference between Indy impossibly surviving a 500 foot fall in a raft* and Indy impossibly surviving a 5000 foot, 5000 degree celsius (I'm estimating) flight in a refrigerator? I contend that there's no difference. How can two things be "unequally impossible"? They're either possible or they're not. Personal opinion is all you can go on; draw your own line. For most people, nuking the fridge went way, way over the line, and I personally think the scene was a bad joke that did great insult to the character of Indiana Jones, but that's all I can say. It's not a logical reasoning, just an instinctual reaction.

*proven possible on Mythbusters, but not in the way the film depicts it, I think

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The fundamental difference between the raft parachute jump and the nuked fridge is context. The audience believed Indy and his sidekicks could survive their fall, simply because the film makers were ever so careful enough to prepare the audience for it in previous scenes (and in previous movies). I personally like the nuke scene in Indy IV, but I appreciate that millions hate it and I expect that is partly down to the fact that at that point in the movie, people were already having their doubts.

I think Ford is just grumpy about what he sees as the negative side-effect Star Wars had on his career.

Speaking of which...

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