Shia LaBeouf acknowledges Indiana Jones 4 was disappointing

[Jay 37,378]

I never understood why Warner Brothers didn't pay everyone to film lots more scenes from the book, and even though you still released the short films to theater, make extended versions for home viewing like they did (through New Line) for LOTR. EVERYONE WINS! They make more money, the fans get better films, etc.

[Henry B 50]

I never understood why Warner Brothers didn't pay everyone to film lots more scenes from the book, and even though you still released the short films to theater, make extended versions for home viewing like they did (through New Line) for LOTR. EVERYONE WINS! They make more money, the fans get better films, etc.

You mean... dramatically increase the production budgets and time commitments (as if eight movies within ten years wasn't enough already, let's add 30 days to every shoot), then hope to recoup the cost purely through home video sales of extended editions?

[Quintus 5,399]

Yes.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

Which each passing year, AI gets even more hate.

Same with Prequels and KOTCS, and i think all recent Spielberg movies.

In ten years, visiting thses forums with not be enjoyable anymore...

[soundwave 0]

KOTCS still ranks above Temple of Doom out of the four films in my book.

That's a good way to start a fight around here. I for one have issues with KOTCS, but nothing huge that will prevent me from being able to enjoy it. However, never in a million years would I put it above any of the previous Indy films.

Shia was too hard on himself but it's not real professional to say, "I think I did a great job in the movie but everyone else screwed it up."

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Which each passing year, AI gets even more hate.

Same with Prequels and KOTCS, and i think all recent Spielberg movies.

In ten years, visiting thses forums with not be enjoyable anymore...

If everyone left once they hit some criticism and disagreements, this board would be a ghost town. Oh no, someone doesn't like a portion of Spielberg's or Williams' works! The only filmmaker in my opinion to have a perfect record is Christopher Nolan. He has yet to make a bad film, but I'm sure it'll happen one day.

[Quintus 5,399]

He hasn't made a bad film, but he nearly nearly did. The man's skating on thin ice!

[Josh500 1,615]

The only filmmaker in my opinion to have a perfect record is Christopher Nolan. He has yet to make a bad film, but I'm sure it'll happen one day.

For me, that's James Cameron.

And no, Piranha 2 doesn't count. That was just stepping stone. His true body of work starts with The Terminator.

[Quintus 5,399]

The fact remains that Cameron directed that awful movie with fish in it. And I don't mean Titanic.

But enough of this, 'tis a silly debate.

[Josh500 1,615]

Just think of it this way. If it hadn't been for that awful flying-fish movie, we probably would never have gotten Titanic and Avatar, not to mention T2 and Aliens.

[Jeff 10]

KOTCS still ranks above Temple of Doom out of the four films in my book.

That's a good way to start a fight around here. I for one have issues with KOTCS, but nothing huge that will prevent me from being able to enjoy it. However, never in a million years would I put it above any of the previous Indy films.

Shia was too hard on himself but it's not real professional to say, "I think I did a great job in the movie but everyone else screwed it up."

I'm glad I got some shock out of some of you at my statement. In my defense, I don't think KOTCS was a better film than TOD, I just enjoy KOTCS more. It might have something to do with my mortal fear of large insects, chilled monkey brains, and hearts being ripped out. (If the ants in KOTCS weren't so fake my rankings might have been different - kind of ironic.)

[Quintus 5,399]

Entirely a fair comment.

[John Crichton 4]

Indy 4 is a fun nostalgic ride as long as you can take it as such. I had fun with it in the theaters and on DVD, though I haven't watched it in a while. It'd just be nice if it had some tension and plot motivation.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Just think of it this way. If it hadn't been for that awful flying-fish movie, we probably would never have gotten Titanic and Avatar, not to mention T2 and Aliens.

Doesn't matter. Like Quint said, he directed it, it's there on his filmography. I'd call David Fincher a flawless director but he has Alien 3. Yes he disowns it, yes he never had the full script, but he still directed it.

[Henry B 50]

Yes.

I don't think the comparison to LotR is fair. That trilogy was a one shoot deal plus pickups. The long shooting schedule afforded the filmmakers plenty of largesse. That's not to say the EEs weren't quite an accomplishment, but what if the child actors in Harry Potter were dealt that sort of schedule for every film? Or, for example, Maggie Smith, who shot Half-Blood Prince in the midst of fighting cancer? There would have been recast after recast. Without consistent stars at the helm, the popularity of the series would have taken a major hit.

[John Crichton 4]

I'm still floored the Potter franchise made it all the way through with only one recast for a death. If you'd told me that even when PoA and GoF were coming out I'd say you were nuts.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Contractual obligations.

[gkgyver 1,646]

Really, I can get enjoyment out of any film; and when I do have major issues with a movie, I can usually say exactly why I don't like it. Specific scenes or something else.

But Indy IV is an experience for me that I really very very rarely have; I watch it, and I am totally indifferent towards it, slowly descending into boredom - and I can't even say why.

It's like you turn on the TV, you flip through the channels, watch a movie for two minutes, and then move on because you know from these two minutes that it isn't worth it.

[King Mark 3,631]

I rarely have nitpick "issues" with a movie. It's either watchable or or it's not. If I can't wait for it to end it means it sucked

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Also, I don't hate A.I. On the contrary, I find it very fascinating and quite watchable. It's a movie that I've analyzed many times and attempted to figure out. I'd probably buy it on Blu-ray. There's something about it--I'm fairly certain 3/4 of the way through that I'm watching something both astonishing and terrible at the same time. Kubrick (who I frankly never "got" as a filmmaker) and Spielberg (who is arguably my favorite director) literally collide and the end result is as I described: astonishingly terrible. At points it almost seems like a tug-of-war match between Spielberg and Kubrick's creative visions. There are certainly substantial traces of the Spielberg I love in there. I need to watch it again.

[King Mark 3,631]

I also want to make it clear that I'm not a Prequel and KotCS hater. While I acknowledge the massive plot holes and bad acting ,they still have something that makes them compelling to watch as a whole.

[Datameister 2,044]

I have a confession to make...

Wait for it...

I enjoy much of KOTCS more than I enjoy TOD, too. TOD has some excellent sequences (e.g. the mine care chase), and the music is obviously superior, and the overall energy level is higher...but the acting is at least as bad, Willie is more annoying than anything imaginable in KOTCS, Indy's character is totally different, there are moments that inspire as much incredulity as the fridge-nuking scene...and worst of all, up till that point, the Indiana Jones franchise had a perfect record with the untouchable ROTLA. At least KOTCS was just the third in a line of flawed films - I expected TOD to be nearly as amazing as ROTLA, but I'd abandoned any such expectations long before seeing KOTCS.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Don't be sad, Dr. Jones. You were soon be joining him.

[indy4 155]

I think the action music in KotCS is better than the action music in ToD.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I enjoy much of KOTCS more than I enjoy TOD, too. TOD has some excellent sequences (e.g. the mine care chase), and the music is obviously superior, and the overall energy level is higher...but the acting is at least as bad, Willie is more annoying than anything imaginable in KOTCS, Indy's character is totally different, there are moments that inspire as much incredulity as the fridge-nuking scene...and worst of all, up till that point, the Indiana Jones franchise had a perfect record with the untouchable ROTLA. At least KOTCS was just the third in a line of flawed films - I expected TOD to be nearly as amazing as ROTLA, but I'd abandoned any such expectations long before seeing KOTCS.

That's because TOD belongs to a whole different genre than Raiders. KOTCS was trying to emulate Raiders. And TOD. And TLC. And be its own movie.

TOD is really far from perfect, but at least it does its own thing.

[Datameister 2,044]

ESB is a sequel "doing its own thing." TOD is a sequel (er, quasi-prequel) abandoning almost everything that worked in the original. Both are the second films in their respective sagas. The former is widely cited as a candidate for the best of its trilogy; the latter is widely cited as a candidate for the worst of its trilogy. And I'm not surprised.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

TOD is probably my favorite.

[Datameister 2,044]

That's something I'll never understand, but more power to ya.

[John Crichton 4]

I also want to make it clear that I'm not a Prequel and KotCS hater. While I acknowledge the massive plot holes and bad acting ,they still have something that makes them compelling to watch as a whole.

Me too.

I think the action music in KotCS is better than the action music in ToD.

[Andy 4,147]

TOD is probably my favorite.

In some ways, it's mine too. It's a hyped up throwback to Johnny Quest style adventure that somehow has always worked for me. It's loud, politically incorrect, and somewhat hyperactive. And the music is great.

[Ollie 1,059]

I can understand someone saying they prefer TOD to Raiders, I can only shake my head in dismay when someone says they prefer KOTCS.

[King Mark 3,631]

ToD. It's one the best time I ever had at the cinema when I saw it the first time

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Data's negative opinion of TOD is honestly the norm in my experience. Even Spielberg doesn't like it. The DVD interviews where he says the movie basically sucked but he DID get laid because of it were really depressing for me. Whatever. It's completely wild and imaginative, loads of fun and it has HEART. Something that KOTCS was certainly missing.

[Ollie 1,059]

TOD is really far from perfect, but at least it does its own thing.

And that is what makes it a great follow up to Raiders.

[Andy 4,147]

Spielberg had some stones then.

[King Mark 3,631]

. Even Spielberg doesn't like TOD.

Because he's turned into a pussy . All his older films would probably suck if he did them the way he thinks now

[Ollie 1,059]

Data's negative opinion of TOD is honestly the norm. Even Spielberg doesn't like TOD. Whatever. It's completely wild and imaginative, loads of fun and it has HEART. Something that KOTCS was certainly missing.

Hard to believe considering the guy that made it used to have cojones when it came to film making. OF course he now complains about CE3K.

I can see him dragging an old Dreyfuss out ,touched up with CGI, to re-shoot the film and have him not walk up the ramp of the mother ship.

****Edit****

I see some of us are on the same page at the same time.

[King Mark 3,631]

Or cut out the Barry's Abduction sub plot. Think of all the parents that scene might traumatize

[Datameister 2,044]

TOD is really far from perfect, but at least it does its own thing.

And that is what makes it a great follow up to Raiders.

As I said, I believe there's a very significant difference between doing your own thing and purposely flying in the face of everything you've already established.

To use an analogy that's probably more meaningful to me than to most here...Disneyland was built in 1955, and it completely revolutionized the idea of what an amusement park could be. It was classy, imaginative, inspiring, and appealing to an unusually wide range of demographics. In 2001, Disney built California Adventure right next door, and they both implicitly and explicitly threw out the Disneyland rule book. Jaw-droppingly immersive rides were largely supplanted by lackluster restaurants...concrete jungles were deemed more appropriate than charming architecture and beautiful trees...and instead of taking guests to worlds of the past, future, and fantasy around the world, Disney tried to take guests to the one place where they really were: the California of the present. The park bombed, forcing Disney to commit to a $1.1 billion overhaul right now, in an attempt to bring the numbers somewhat closer to those earned by the infinitely and unsurprisingly superior Disneyland.

Raiders worked. It's one of my favorite films of all time, regardless of the lack of any serious philosophical content or "meat." I think it's thus a perfectly reasonable viewpoint for me to be disappointed and annoyed by TOD, which intentionally does everything differently than the film I enjoy. No one wants a rehash, of course, which is why I offered ESB as an example before - the tone and storyline are quite different from Star Wars, but it's still consistent with what was previously established, and in some ways is even an improvement.

But hey, at least y'all are hearing this from me now, not a few years back. This is me after having TOD grow on me for a while.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Yeah, but Data, if the Pirates of the Caribbean breaks down, the pirates don't EAT the tourists.

[Andy 4,147]

I can see him dragging an old Dreyfuss out ,touched up with CGI, to re-shoot the film and have him not walk up the ramp of the mother ship.

I always thought this scene articulated Dreyfuss' choice to leave better than Spielberg ever did:

[Datameister 2,044]

Yeah, but Data, if the Pirates of the Caribbean breaks down, the pirates don't EAT the tourists.

Ahhhh crap, now you're gonna get me started on TLW!

[Ollie 1,059]

I miss the old days of MAD and Cracked.

Star Wars & Raiders were great, their sequels were very good/great. Yet when the the third film for each franchise came around and Lucas/Spielberg went back to what they did in the first film of each series, I walked out of the theatre feeling somewhat empty and slightly disappointed.

[Jeff 10]

Kind of off topic but more on topic than much we have discussed in this thread:

Have Lucas or Spielberg ever given any indication that they intended Mutt to have a spinoff movie? I've heard grumblings that this would be an outrage, but I was under the impression that there was never any intent to make an Indiana Jones without Harrison Ford.

When I saw the closing scene of KOTCS, I watched Mutt pick up the hat, and I was thinking "NOOOO!!" and then Harrison Ford snatches it and puts it on his own head. I was instantly relieved, and I understood that Lucas and Spielberg were just teasing us - they knew as well as we did that no one could ever take the place of Harrison Ford in the Indiana Jones movies - he IS Indiana Jones. But other viewers seem to have gotten the impression that Spielberg was foreshadowing, and that there really might be a Mutt movie. Anyone have a definitive answer?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

At least Last Crusade had that great prologue with River Phoenix. That scene was the closest in spirit to Raiders and TOD. But I know everyone hates it because of his awesome long hair...

[Datameister 2,044]

With TLC, I agree, Mark. With ROTJ...I dunno, I don't really see it so much as a return to the feel established by Star Wars, though I suppose it's closer than ESB is. But that brings me back to my point - your best bet is to find a happy medium between a been-there-done-that retread and a completely unrelated film. IMO, ESB finds the perfect balance, and TOD swings way too far toward the latter.

EDIT: And yes, the long hair killed that otherwise excellent opening scene for me. I must say, though, those few opening cues contain some of Williams' finest Mickey-Mousing. For that particular scene, it works splendidly.

EDIT: Jeff, Lucas has said that he thought about doing films with Mutt as the main character, but he mentioned Harrison returning in a role more like Sean Connery's in TLC. After the lukewarm-to-hostile reaction to KOTCS, I doubt this will ever happen, though I wouldn't be tremendously surprised by a fifth "regular" Indy film.

[Ollie 1,059]

Meh, it showed us stuff we really didn't need to see.

Indy gets his hat, gets scared of snakes and gets Ford's scar all in one adventure. Kinda ruins the mythology of the character, much like the everyone knows everyone in the prequels.

[Andy 4,147]

I miss the old days of MAD and Cracked.

Slightly more on-topic:

Meh, it showed us stuff we really didn't need to see.

Indy gets his hat, gets scared of snakes and gets Ford's scar all in one adventure. Kinda ruins the mythology of the character, much like the everyone knows everyone in the prequels.

The dude with the whip walking out of the shadows at the start of Raiders was full of mystery, and we loved it. TLC crushed that.

[Datameister 2,044]

Meh, it showed us stuff we really didn't need to see. Indy gets his hat, gets scared of snakes and gets Ford's scar all in one adventure. Kinda ruins the mythology of the character, much like the everyone knows everyone in the prequels.

I definitely get where you're coming from on that. Doesn't bother me personally all THAT much, but it certainly doesn't help the scene. I mostly just enjoy the fun-but-not-annoying energy of it.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

See, I agree that there was a quality to the character in Raiders (and ToD) that was lost in the later films. He was almost like something out of folklore, ironically the sort of thing the stories always dealt with. When he's hauling ass across the desert on horseback pursuing the truck convoy, there's just something almost mythical about him. Kinda tough to explain. Similarly how people have heard of him, like the guy at Pankot Palace. Love that. Indeed, most of TLC may tarnish that quality, but I still enjoy that film and his hair. Just maybe not that stupid scene afterwards where the boat explodes.

That Mad Magazine sketch is just the best.