Let Me In by Michael Giacchino

[Datameister 2,044]

Yep. That's not to say that little things don't change from the sketches to the final recording - minor changes to the rhythm or instrumentation do occasionally happen during orchestration or on the recording stage. But it's Williams' music, through and through. The orchestrators are there to convert his music from a format that's easy to write to a format that's easy to read, and they make occasional suggestions along the way.

[Jay 37,369]

The orchestrators are there to convert his music from a format that's easy to write to a format that's easy to read, and they make occasional suggestions along the way.

That's the best summary description I've seen yet - good job.

[Neimoidian 14]

Yep. That's not to say that little things don't change from the sketches to the final recording - minor changes to the rhythm or instrumentation do occasionally happen during orchestration or on the recording stage. But it's Williams' music, through and through. The orchestrators are there to convert his music from a format that's easy to write to a format that's easy to read, and they make occasional suggestions along the way.

I know all of it. It's preety much what most orchestrators say about their work with other composers.

[Datameister 2,044]

I'm not talking about other composers; I only know it's true of Williams, because he's the one whose sketches I've studied. I have, however, heard orchestrators make comments about other composers not doing it the way Williams does. The few non-Williams sketches I've seen have all been less detailed and unambiguous.

[King Mark 3,631]

Yeah I also meant Williams only. I don't know about other composers in that respect.

I suspect guys like Danny Elfman get a lot of help from orchestrators. And some of these "one hit wonders" that produce one amazing score than you never hear from them again .

[Datameister 2,044]

I believe Danny Elfman's sketches are rather primitive - they contain a lot of information about the music, but not necessarily notated very well, and often with a lot of electronic help. He knows what effect he wants and he works with the orchestrators to achieve that effect. Kind of an intermediate between Williams' approach and the whistling-a-tune-to-the-orchestrator approach you postulated about, KM - but closer to Williams' approach.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

From what I understand, from the technical side Elfman works much like Zimmer: Composing his music directly at the computer, creating synth mockups of his music, from which the orchestrators transcribe the orchestral score. Those mockups of Elfman's that I've heard clearly contain the whole music and orchestration of the finished product.

[crocodile 8,017]

He does write on paper too. He can't write from his head (most people can't, I imagine). That's why he uses synthesizer as an aid. But he can read and write music himself. I don't know how detailed his sketches are though. Speaking of Elfman, usually if there is someone helping in writing music he (or she) appears credited as such on the CD (like in the case of Hellboy II, for example).

Karol

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

If JW hires some other composer/sound designer to come up with this synth drum loop for Munich

i dont think they 'came up' with the synth beat.

Williams knew what he wanted, he just needed someone to create and program it in the computer...

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

How about we don't assume what happened and just enjoy the music that resulted from the collaboration?

I mean really, some people are overreacting at this.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Overreacting? we are not speaking about the 'Let me in' situation now..

[Chris.Tilton 0]

If JW hires some other composer/sound designer to come up with this synth drum loop for Munich

i dont think they 'came up' with the synth beat.

Williams knew what he wanted, he just needed someone to create and program it in the computer...

By that logic, isn't that kind of like a composer saying "I know what I want, a big grandios, lush, fantasy score, I just need to hire this guy to create it for me."

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Tom Gire and John Sponsler have done additional music, but for Munich and Memoirs Of A Geisha they are credited as synth programmers. But hey, people like to call Zimmer's synth programmers and orchestrators co-composers. This board has a problem dealing with collaborative music in general. I'm not talking specifically about anyone, but some people flipped when I posted that Howard Shore had additional composers on The Lord Of The Rings. No one talks about that though, it seems like people suppress what they don't want to hear and glorify the same thing with composers they hate. For some reason "Additional music" is a bad thing, something to be ashamed of. I don't get it.

[Jay 37,369]

Well, Howard Shore didn't have additional composers on LOTR

[Incanus 5,715]

Tom Gire and John Sponsler have done additional music, but for Munich and Memoirs Of A Geisha they are credited as synth programmers. But hey, people like to call Zimmer's synth programmers and orchestrators co-composers. This board has a problem dealing with collaborative music in general. I'm not talking specifically about anyone, but some people flipped when I posted that Howard Shore had additional composers on The Lord Of The Rings. No one talks about that though, it seems like people suppress what they don't want to hear and glorify the same thing with composers they hate. For some reason "Additional music" is a bad thing, something to be ashamed of. I don't get it.

Can you really blame anyone in these glory days of heightened sense of a person's individuality for criticizing composers who have a staff of people writing the music with them? The traditional image of a composer (especially orchestral composer) is that of an artistic individual creating his own vision. The collaboration comes only afterwards with the musicians and in the case of movie music with all the other people involved in the scoring process. I guess to some people the idea of a half a dozen people writing music for the same movie, no matter how large or small their individual efforts are (I mean really composing music, not as additional help to perform different tasks of the scoring process), seems to diminish the cohesion, overall strength and unified vision and structure of a film score.

This is only one view. Times and pratices change. Your example, Hans Zimmer, involves people under his wing to participate in the scoring, giving them chances to actually write for the movies he writes for. It is a generous gesture but again this is not the way all composers work, nor do they feel the collaboration of this sort is needed.

Also you can also easily imagine that people become indignant on behalf of their favourite composer if they know he prides himself to be the sole creator of the music he writes for e.g. films. Naturally some think this doubt as a slight to the composer they admire, suggestion that he can't write his wonderful music on his own, and thus as a serious doubt on his compositional skills and integrity as an artist. Some care about this more and some less. And it really depends on how you look upon collaboration.

Good example is Howard Shore and his music for Lord of the Rings. You claimed that Shore had staff writing additional music for the films, when in all interviews, internet writing, documentaries (and probably in the upcoming book) Shore has emphasized his personal involvement and pride in writing all this music himself, even orchestrating it all himself.

Then you look at the scoring crew credits and see label Additional Music Crew and by this evidence alone you claim Shore had extra composers assisting him. It would not be a big deal if Shore had even once mentioned that he had additional help or needed some but he hasn't ever said anything of the sort. You do not think it is a big deal, some might actually think you want to intentionally belittle Shore's personal contribution and artistic integrity.

All this said I am looking forward to Giacchino's score for Let Me In. And the End Credits clip sounded extremely good Mr. Tilton as does the rest of the score.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I understand other people feel additional composers diminish the integrity of the art, but this is film music. Film is all about collaboration, so why shouldn't its music be as well? Star Wars could have been written by 13 people, and it still would have been groundbreaking and legendary.

There's no denying that Jeff Grace worked on The Lord Of The Rings. IMDb lists him as Additional Music Crew as you pointed out, on his website he says he was Shore's assistant. Something tells me he didn't just get Shore his coffee. 10 hours of composing and orchestrating is a lot to handle by yourself. I'm not trying to diminish Shore's work here, I will admit I'm not entirely familiar about the making of the score, but is it so improbable that Grace contributed something creatively? Zimmer oversees everything that goes on in his scores, if Lorne Balfe wants to add something personal, Zimmer is there making sure it works. I think the major difference between Zimmer and other composers is that Zimmer thinks he sucks, so he's always open to other people's input to make his work better and fights to give them credit.

[Jay 37,369]

it so improbable that Grace contributed something creatively?

Yes, it is. Shore is not the kind of man that would go 9 years now without once mentioning anyone else composing any part of LOTR. It was all him, I don't know why you can't accept that.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Creative input doesn't strictly mean co-composing.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

If JW hires some other composer/sound designer to come up with this synth drum loop for Munich

i dont think they 'came up' with the synth beat.

Williams knew what he wanted, he just needed someone to create and program it in the computer...

By that logic, isn't that kind of like a composer saying "I know what I want, a big grandios, lush, fantasy score, I just need to hire this guy to create it for me."

mmm that's rather stretching it...

I mean:

Williams: Hmmm...i want this constant beat that sounds like a bass guitar but i want a more synth feeling. Playing these notes.

It the same as writing what a violinist has to play, but in this case, the violin is a computer, which john Williams has no idea how to use to create sounds because he is too old and needs 'Stradivarius' to create a violin to fill his needs...

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

I think the problem most people have with Zimmer having additional composers is that he can actually compose an entire soundtrack by himself. The early 90`s, for example, brought us a lot scores that (if I'm not mistaken) were all written by himself. The Lion King and Backdraft are examples of this. I repeat: I'm not entirely sure about this, but as far as I remember these scores were pure Zimmer.

Personally, it doesn't bother me that Zimmer uses help. But what really bothers and annoyes me is that people will say "Zimmer is a freakin genius" of a cue that wasn't even written by him! That really pisses me off. At least give the proper credit on the CD, so that way people will know and don't misfire they compliments.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Sorry, af far as i know,

The Lion King: Hans Zimmer and Mark Mancina...

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I think the problem most people have with Zimmer having additional composers is that he can actually compose an entire soundtrack by himself. The early 90`s, for example, brought us a lot scores that (if I'm not mistaken) were all written by himself. The Lion King and Backdraft are examples of this. I repeat: I'm not entirely sure about this, but as far as I remember these scores were pure Zimmer.

Personally, it doesn't bother me that Zimmer uses help. But what really bothers and annoyes me is that people will say "Zimmer is a freakin genius" of a cue that wasn't even written by him! That really pisses me off. At least give the proper credit on the CD, so that way people will know and don't misfire they compliments.

Depends on what you're talking about. Zimmer almost always gives proper credit in his CDs. Just open up Tears Of The Sun or The Holiday and you'll get track-by-track credits. Most of the time the creative input other musicians have on his work doesn't equate to something like "Insert Cue Name" was composed by "Insert Composer." It's something smaller that he still feels deserves credit, and that's where the "Additional Music" credit comes in.

[Jay 37,369]

Just saw this review on the FSM boards (apparently the score is on itunes early)

I've given the score an initial listen. It's the most low-key score that I've ever heard from Giacchino (not a bad thing with this kind of film), devoid of his usual easily identifiable melodies. The score very much reminds me of a fusion of the suspense material from Lost with Goldsmithian suspense (think the bear material from The Edge). The whole score gives off a kind of chilly, unsettled atmosphere. I'd bet it's very effective in the film, but it's hard to tell how well this will work on album in the long run. I don't think a 78 minute presentation (as on the album) shows the score in the best light. Overall, this has increased my appreciation for Giacchino - this is him reaching and trying something very different that his usual stuff.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

The only thing I love more than Giacchino's Lost style in Lost is when Giacchino uses that same style outside of Lost. Glad to hear that Let Me In bears some of that style.

[Demondm810 399]

I'm not familiar with Lost whatsoever (never heard one lick of the score) but "Let Me In" is sublime. I've never been super crazy for MG other than The Incredibles. I do like Star Trek, but to me it lacks real weight. THIS definitely elevates MG to another level for me. The subtlety is wonderful. Being familiar with the story for the film, I can only imagine how effective this is going to be. Hauntingly beautiful. I can't get enough of it. If Lost is anything remotely like this, I may need to order 6 CDs tonight!

[Taikomochi 1,136]

You have the score already? I assume you like it, then.

[Demondm810 399]

Yea, it is available on iTunes. I went ahead and used a giftcard. I want to order an autographed copy from DarkDel.com for the physical release.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I'm jealous. I don't have money to buy either.

As for Lost, I don't know if I'd recommend you buy it just because of Let Me In. It's kind of an acquired taste. When I first heard Lost prior to watching the show, it was boring and drab. Even when starting the first season, I was underwhelmed. You have to get into the context before you can really appreciate it, I think. I appreciate all of Lost now. That's how it was for me, at least.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

That guy is complaining the score is complete in a 78 min CD?

Isnt it usually the other way arround???

Specially speaking of an itunes release...Just choose the tracks and arrange the order for your listening pleasure..do not tell the labels that releasing a complete score if it fits in one CD is not the way!

Eeeekkkkkk.

End of shock

[Wojo 2,453]

Yea, 78 minutes is way too long for a score release. Terrible listening experience.

Wouldn't it be better if they released it short now, then complete next year, when they can save money by leaving out the choir?

[King Mark 3,631]

Hmm.I really want to listen to it now

[Red 75]

As for Lost, I don't know if I'd recommend you buy it just because of Let Me In. It's kind of an acquired taste. When I first heard Lost prior to watching the show, it was boring and drab. Even when starting the first season, I was underwhelmed. You have to get into the context before you can really appreciate it, I think. I appreciate all of Lost now. That's how it was for me, at least.

You know, that's interesting. I've heard people say that before about the score, that it took time for them to get into it, but for me it wasn't really like that. I think it was the moment in the pilot after the aftermath of the crash where we hear the survivors' theme for the first time. There was a quality to it that I hadn't heard in music from a TV show in a long time, maybe ever, and I was immediately drawn to it in the same way I was for the show as a whole. Course, the rabid fandom developed later.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I was immediately hooked on LOST from its very first second. I don't remember when I got into the scores. I think the "Hollywood And Vines" scene from the Pilot is what reeled me in, and then I just discovered all the complexity and themes through the soundtrack releases.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

See, I thought "Hollywood and Vines" sucked the first time I heard it. I found it to be generic and uninspired. It wasn't until I heard subsequent adaptations of the theme before I started to appreciate it.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I don't know, maybe I was born a die hard Giacchino fan.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I've had to grow into it.

[Datameister 2,044]

It took me a while to get into his music...but then I got REALLY into it.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

It just took me a little movie called The Incredibles. As soon as I saw that flick I ran out and bought the CD and thought 'this dude is awesome'.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

It was all Alias for me to start with. Watched that show from the start and loved the music. Then came The Incredibles. Then I played Medal of Honor: Frontline. The rest is history.

[Datameister 2,044]

Well, I liked The Incredibles right away. I guess I was just referring to LOST - that definitely took me a while to appreciate. It just seemed obvious, repetitive, and generic to me at first. Not sure how I formed that opinion, but I was fortunate enough to get rid of it.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Well, I liked The Incredibles right away. I guess I was just referring to LOST - that definitely took me a while to appreciate. It just seemed obvious, repetitive, and generic to me at first. Not sure how I formed that opinion, but I was fortunate enough to get rid of it.

Oh, ok. I've never seen or heard Lost.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Well, I liked The Incredibles right away. I guess I was just referring to LOST - that definitely took me a while to appreciate. It just seemed obvious, repetitive, and generic to me at first. Not sure how I formed that opinion, but I was fortunate enough to get rid of it.

It's fairly simple: you just hadn't listened to it enough at the time. The style he uses in the show is very particular and the themes are all structured and orchestrated very similarly. It's only on closer inspection that the subtleties of his writing become evident. I was the same. Watching the show religiously and recognising all of the different themes and their variations greatly enhanced my appreciation of the actual music.

It's pretty similar with most composers/musicians actually, in my experience. There's a lot of Williams-haters out there who think all of his music is generic and all sounds the same, but they're generally only exposed to his Spielberg scores which do share a lot of similarities (especially in the 80s). Recommendations to listen to the likes of Schindler's List or Memoirs of a Geisha are generally ignored. Oh well, their loss.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

It's pretty similar with most composers/musicians actually, in my experience. There's a lot of Williams-haters out there who think all of his music is generic and all sounds the same, but they're generally only exposed to his Spielberg scores which do share a lot of similarities (especially in the 80s). Recommendations to listen to the likes of Schindler's List or Memoirs of a Geisha are generally ignored. Oh well, their loss.

That's pretty funny though, you complain that they should open their mind but admit somewhat that it may be due to only experiencing Spielberg collaborations, then recommend... two Spielberg collaborations.

[TownerFan 4,983]

[Taikomochi 1,136]

That made me really angry when he screamed out "Academy award winning, Michael Giacchino!" Cool performance, though.

[King Mark 3,631]

I can tell I like the main themes but this performance didn't sound so good

[David Coscina 3]

Guys, Let Me In is a very good score. I went on about it on the FSM board so I don't want to get into too much detail here but it's a pretty striking work. It's subtle but not aural wallpaper. There are some very compelling tracks.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Wow, what a wonderful score. It's sort of like a fusion of Goldenthal's Interview With The Vampire and Giacchino's Lost. Really, it's awesome. Despite the whole thing being a masterpiece, the best 3 would probably be "Dread on Arrival", "Parting Sorrows", and "End Credits". "Parting Sorrows" is just wonderfully beautiful, and "End Credits" simply expands on this. But the definite highlight is "Dread on Arrival". Giacchino has this very subtle theme throughout the movie that I guess is associated with the police officer. That is the underlying base of DoA. And damn, it is awesome. This theme slowly escalates. This whole track just builds in the most perfect way. The scene it accompanies is clearly meant to be suspenseful, but without this piece, it would be nothing. The tension in this track is palpable in a good way. It should be used as an example to aspiring composers on how to create suspense, I think.

[Jay 37,369]

Who else has any thoughts on the score? I'd love to hear them.

I listened to the first roughly half the other night, but was doing a million other things so couldn't really pay much attention.

I really want to see the movie, and it seems like I'll have to do it quick since it's bombing.

[King Mark 3,631]

I forgot about this thread . We should post thoughts about the film here

Wait wasn't this thread merged with something else?