Predator (1987) vs. Avatar (2009)

[Quintus 5,399]

Debunk me and we'll talk.

Back to the subject of imaginary vaginas though...

[Naïve Old Fart 9,541]

O.k.,folks, A. and P. lesson 101.

The vagina is a canal that leads from the cervix, to the vulva. Even if you could see inside it (and why, except if you were an gynecologist, would you want to?), you would need either a very bright flashlight, or a very small head. What the Predator's mouth looks like is, as previously stated, the vulva, and not the vagina. Please; let's give the Predator a little respect, o.k. Happy to be of assistance.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What about the G Spot?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,541]

The G spot is located along the inner wall of the vagina, approximately 5cms from the vulva, so even you could reach it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Like the Predator, it is invisible and illusive....

[Ollie 1,059]

Anyhoo, back to the Predator vs Avatar debate.....

[Wojo 2,453]

I'll take Quint's eloquent statement, which gave Drax goosebumps, and say that Predator isn't really science fiction on the level like other movies with extra-terrestrial beings. The macho commandos are being hunted down by...something. It could be a genetically engineered soldier or psycho murderer with high tech toys. They can't see it until it's too late, it's strong then they, more cunning than they, and it finally gets outsmarted by the most basic of tactics. The fact that the titular antagonist is an "alien" is almost irrelevant. That only explains his chameleon field, IR sight, fancy weaponry, and goodnight tactical nuke, which weren't found in U.S. military arsenals of the 1980s.

If Arnold would not have seen the Predator destroy his entire squad in the jungle, and been given five minutes to hand the monster a bag of Reese's pieces and give that nasty interstellar vagina hunter a hug, then he might have had a sense of wonder at the "science fiction" implication of meeting an alien. Instead, the Predator is a monster in the classic sense, making Predator a monster movie, right there with JC's The Thing.

At least with Avatar, the marines that got sent to Pandora expected to find aliens there. Set in the far future, deep space travel, alien planets, and telepathically linked alien dopplegangers had become commonplace in human society. Worthington's character got more excitement and wonder from just being able to walk again -- something most take for granted -- than he did from the sights and sounds of the alien world of Pandora itself -- something the rest of us would kill to see. Sure, once he got to live with the natives, fly the dragons, and bang the chief's daughter, he decided to actually go native and betray his race, which was totally expected based on the unoriginality of the plot.

Had he actually decided to stick with the human pricks running the show and help them lay waste to the blue people's paradise, then the movie would have become exciting and worth seeing again, instead of becoming all preachy "American corporations are evil, American imperialism destroys the planet, we should save the trees, save the natives, but I'll still take your $12 for the 3D surcharge." What hypocrisy.

Regardless of what everyone thinks Avatar did for movies, I would rather spend $40 to be able to ride the roller coaster all day in the sun and wind and throwing my arms into the air and feeling the G's push me around, than spend $12 to wear a pair of glasses and get motion sickness from a paint by numbers cookie cutter movie. I hope the 3D movie fad dies and dies hard, dragging some movie execs' careers with it.

[A24 4,338]

I'll take Quint's eloquent statement, which gave Drax goosebumps, and say that Predator isn't really science fiction on the level like other movies with extra-terrestrial beings. The macho commandos are being hunted down by...something. It could be a genetically engineered soldier or psycho murderer with high tech toys. They can't see it until it's too late, it's strong then they, more cunning than they, and it finally gets outsmarted by the most basic of tactics. The fact that the titular antagonist is an "alien" is almost irrelevant. That only explains his chameleon field, IR sight, fancy weaponry, and goodnight tactical nuke, which weren't found in U.S. military arsenals of the 1980s.

Of course, it's not real sci-fi, neither is Avatar. I could've told the story of Avatar without losing anything of the essence by simply situating it on Earth with indians, soldiers and wild animals.

Set in the far future, deep space travel, alien planets, and telepathically linked alien dopplegangers had become commonplace in human society.

All this is merely window dressing to give the same old story a different look.

Alex - who invented the sub-genre named 'Jungle Sci-Fi'

[Quintus 5,399]

Personally, I prefer Sewer Sci-Fi.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Given that 'Avatar' is a bunch of crapsteaks, I'll take 'Predator' thanks.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

There is no comparison, Avatar by a lightyear.

sometimes Predator shows it was made on a tight budget, and I hate the Predator view.

but this is apples and oranges, or pinto beans and black eyed peas.

Mark since you've not seen both you should not be voting.

[Wojo 2,453]

Of course, it's not real sci-fi, neither is Avatar. I could've told the story of Avatar without losing anything of the essence by simply situating it on Earth with indians, soldiers and wild animals.

So would James Cameron, too, if he could have figured out how to charge 3D prices and install 3D effects to tell a story with teepees, bows and arrows, and buffalo. I'm sure Kevin Costner would have said something.

black eyed peas.

Since this will be last Super Bowl halftime show for a while, I'd rather have Janet Jackson's other nipple.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[A24 4,338]

Indeed, I don't get it either. Beside the 3D technique, what in Avatar haven't I seen before?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,541]

Is it me, or does Pandora look like a Roger Dean album cover? #Mountains come out of the sky, and they stand there# indeed!

I know that "Avatar" has its fans, but I found it to be monumentally vacuous piece of work, completely devoid of any real artistic merit whatsoever.

The "Predator"/"The Thing" comparison, is interesting, but ultimately flawed, for, while the predator is invisible, the thing is in plain sight, but concealed. It's no surprise that the original story was called "Who Goes There?", and not "What Goes There?". Of course, the story, and the "The Thing From Another World" has a painfully obvious subtext, in the whole "reds under the bed", wilderness of mirrors, who-do-you-trust McCarthy-ite 1950s.

No such position with "The Predator", however, it being too bound up in mid-to-late 1980s Reaganomics, to present any fully-formed, or even semi-intelligent argument. And that's the fun of it, isn't it? It's a bunch of guys, in the jungle, shooting at things, and more power to it!

"Avatar", on the other hand, is presented as a paean to the World's ecological system, with a bit of kinky sex (hey, you don't find sex with a 10-feet-tall blue thing kinky?! It's even got a tail, for crying out loud!!!!) on the side.

The argument is so one-sided that the film expects you to cheer the Na'vi, and boo the Humans, as soon as it reaches Pandora. I like thoughtful, intelligent films that at least try to provide all sides of an argument, but "Avatar" is having none of it!

"Avatar" a film that begs you to like it, even as it snatches your hard-earned cash away from you, and pays it unashamedly, and cynically, into Mr. C.'s bank account, while you are slowly losing the will to live. Perhaps, in this post-9/11 world, we all desperately need something to believe in, and to fight for, but giving us a shoot-'em-up movie, disguised as half-assed ecology lesson is not the way to re-install confidence in anything.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I had a hard time properly enjoying Avatar. My problem has always been the cookie-cutter story and characters that frankly I couldn't give a toss about. The visuals in 3D were superb, but nothing is drawing me to watch it in 2D.

I haven't seen Predator for some time but I'm pretty sure I found it a great experience. Essentially, I'm balancing phenomenal and engrossing visuals with tense storytelling. If I ignore those snobby critics who think story is everything (I'm of the firm opinion that if you can't highly rate anything that focuses on something other than story now and then, you're too closed minded).

Score-wise, I'm not Silvestri's biggest fan. His music tends to be cheesy and mickey-mousey for me. But then Avatar disappointed me somewhat in the music department after all the hype of how long Horner had to write it.

[Quintus 5,399]

Indeed, I don't get it either. Beside the 3D technique, what in Avatar haven't I seen before?

Must a movie always offer something new, Alex?

[Brónach 1,302]

Indeed, I don't get it either. Beside the 3D technique, what in Avatar haven't I seen before?

Must a movie always offer something new, Alex?

No, it must offer something good.

I think Avatar was not bad, but mediocre. But given trhe amount of time and resources they put into it, the word "failure" falls short.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,541]

Indeed, I don't get it either. Beside the 3D technique, what in Avatar haven't I seen before?

Must a movie always offer something new, Alex?

Of course it should, otherwise, why make it?

The first person to say 'my lover's lips are like a red, red rose' is a genius. The second person to say 'my lover's lips are like a red, red rose' is an idiot.

[Quintus 5,399]

Of course it should, otherwise, why make it?

Thankfully directors like Frank Darabont don't share the same ideal. Some stories are deserving of numerous re-tellings, as is cliché perfectly fine and useful, provided the execution is sound.

Of course originality is the single greatest quality of any film, but it's not the be all and end all, at least not to me it isn't.

The first person to say 'my lover's lips are like a red, red rose' is a genius. The second person to say 'my lover's lips are like a red, red rose' is an idiot.

That's just pretentious shite.

[A24 4,338]

I was bothered by how predictable and familiar everything was. A 10 or 12-year-old might experience it as new and fresh though. In the end, I think Avatar was made for young audiences. Not for old people like me who been around the block a few times too many.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,541]

Of course it should, otherwise, why make it?

Thankfully directors like Frank Darabont don't share the same ideal. Some stories are deserving of numerous re-tellings, as is cliché perfectly fine and useful, provided the execution is sound.

Of course originality is the single greatest quality of any film, but it's not the be all and end all, at least not to me it isn't.

The first person to say 'my lover's lips are like a red, red rose' is a genius. The second person to say 'my lover's lips are like a red, red rose' is an idiot.

That's just pretentious shite.

"Pretentious shite", eh? Bless. What else can you expect from a Liverpool supporter?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Hmmm this talk about the likeness of the predator face...

And seeing some concepts from the designer of ALIEN...

Is ALIEN vs Predator the name of the most sick hardcore porn movie out there??

Just think the two extraterrestrials doing a headbutt.

yuck!

[Trent B 337]

I was bothered by how predictable and familiar everything was. A 10 or 12-year-old might experience it as new and fresh though. In the end, I think Avatar was made for young audiences. Not for old people like me who been around the block a few times too many.

I actually agree with this too. I too have been around long enough and saw how predictable Avatar was going to be. It's still a good movie but Predator will always be better.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

it's petty post titanic hatred all over, only pandora style.

[Quintus 5,399]

I can fully appreciate how a lot of people are put off by movies which are predictable, movies were the ending is blatantly obvious, but I dunno... I think part of the fun on such occasions is seeing how they get there. Again, it's all about the execution, for me. I'm a firm believer in excellent cinematic execution.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm with Quint. Considering there's no such thing as an original story (there are really only 5 distinct plots, or was it 6?), it's all about how you tell that story.

[Datameister 2,044]

Some stories are more original than others. Following an overall plot arc that has been proven to satisfy audiences for millennia is one thing...literally translating a few specific stories and then passing it off as your own masterpiece is another.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,541]

Following an overall plot arc that has been proven to satisfy audiences for millenia is one thing...literally translating a few specific stories and then passing it off as your own masterpiece is another.

Are you reading this, Mr. L., and Mr. C.?

[Quintus 5,399]

To my knowledge neither Lucas nor Cameron have ever claimed their respective movies (SW, Avatar) to be their own, original concepts.

[Wojo 2,453]

Is ALIEN vs Predator the name of the most sick hardcore porn movie out there??

Unfortunately, it was never greenlit.

[Ollie 1,059]

[A24 4,338]

Is it me, or does Pandora look like a Roger Dean album cover? #Mountains come out of the sky, and they stand there# indeed!

It does steal a lot from Roger Dean's world, but while Dean's style looks artisanal and drawn, Cameron wants that universe to be photo-realistic.

[crocodile 8,017]

I'm with Quint. Considering there's no such thing as an original story (there are really only 5 distinct plots, or was it 6?), it's all about how you tell that story.

According to some there are 36-37 dramatic situations.

Karol

[A24 4,338]

The problem with Avatar was that most of it was too obvious, too blatant, too much in the open and too old. It's as if Cameron thinks we're all 12 year old kids, or as if he just quickly needed a story to show off the latest developments in 3D technique. Not making any effort for the story and characters seems to be a basic rule for Avatar. Maybe I should've seen the 3D version to understand why the whole world goes bonanza over this.

[Brónach 1,302]

I still think the execution was surprisingly poor.

[Quintus 5,399]

Well that's just apples and oranges isn't it and this could just around in circles if it were allowed, but you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, of course. I personally thought Cameron's direction was outstanding.

Maybe I should've seen the 3D version to understand why the whole world goes bonanza over this.

I doubt it would have made in difference where your concerned, Alex. I personally have very little desire to see the movie again, but I will say that upon that first 3D viewing on the big screen which I had, it was absolutely spectacular, a 3D feast for my eyes, the stunning depth of field adding greatly to the overall effect of the movie. I'm glad I saw it on the big screen and not at home, because I may well think differently.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,541]

I personally have very little desire to see the movie again

Shouldn't that tell you something about the film, Quint..?

[Quintus 5,399]

Not in the way you're referring to, no. I think the Chris Nolan Batman movies are superb; yet I have very little desire to see them again. It's all about the re-watchabilty factor.

Perhaps when you have been around here a while longer you might come to understand my taste and way with movies

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm with Quint. Considering there's no such thing as an original story (there are really only 5 distinct plots, or was it 6?), it's all about how you tell that story.

According to some there are 36-37 dramatic situations.

Karol

Still. 37 different situations out of the hundreds of films made every year.

[Brónach 1,302]

Well that's just apples and oranges isn't it and this could just around in circles if it were allowed, but you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, of course. I personally thought Cameron's direction was outstanding.

No, I agree with that, I actually like his style a whole lot. What I don't like is the script and some designs. (And the parts where everything seems CGI like the Hometree). But I usually can't complain at all about his direction.

[Quintus 5,399]

Indeed, I can watch many deeply flawed movies and still just marvel at the directorial skill of a master at work, especially an action director like Cameron.

Because that's what James Cameron is: a master.

[A24 4,338]

I think that the action scenes of T2 are easily Cameron's best. Very visceral, bracing and authoritative. Of course, the principle of the unstoppable nightmare always does the trick for me. But anyway, I think their storytelling blows Avatar out of the jungle.

Alex

[Quintus 5,399]

Hmm I dunno, the way he mounted the sinking of the Titanic blows me away to this day. Some of those dolly shots just take the piss.

I think their storytelling blows Avatar out of the jungle.

Absolutely. A measure of both Terminator movies greatness.

[A24 4,338]

The drive, the incredible sense of danger and urgency when the T-1000 searched through the asylum for Sarah Connor is a movie on its own. The same goes for the 'bike and truck' scene.

[Wojo 2,453]

John Connor was such a bratty little asshole punk that I was rooting for the liquid robot to kill him.

[A24 4,338]

What did you expect? He's a teenager without a Qui-Gon figure to guide him! That's why he saw the Terminator as his father. The Terminator was an avatar of his father.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Terminator 2 is one of the best action films ever made.

[Quintus 5,399]

Although for me its impact has been lessened somewhat by persistent repeated screenings on terrestrial tv. Sometimes it feels like it's shown once a month over here.

[Wojo 2,453]

Terminator 2 is one of the best action films ever made.

And yet, I still prefer The Terminator over its sequel.