Amazing Alternates

[Pieter Boelen 740]

On the extended/complete releases of film music, there's frequently alternates.

These can range from being pretty much the same as the original tracks to being completely different.

In some cases, I reckon the alternates even outdo the film versions. While they might not always work so well in the film,

they can make for great listening experienced.

So which alternates do you really like? Which ones do you consider better than the film versions?

And which ones do you consider to be totally useless?

Here's some of my favourites:

Bronislau Kaper, Mutiny on the Bounty (1962): Alternate Score

Is there any precendent to the score to a film being completely rewritten by the original composer and being released together with the original music?

I'm not familiar enough with the music to choose between the two versions, but there's a lot of great alternates in here.

Jerry Goldsmith, First Knight: "The Ambush (Alternate)"

I reckon this one makes for a better listening experience, though the film version does a good job of expanding it while remaining true to the original vision.

David Arnold, Independence Day: All Alternates

Especially "The Virus (Alternate)" makes for a great building listening experience much better than the film version as far as I'm concerned.

Michael Giacchino, Ratatouille: "The Paper Chase (Alternate)"

Really quite different and really quite great.

Jerry Goldsmith, Star Trek I: The Motion Picture: "The Enterprise (Alternate)"

Definitely brings to mind visions of large sailing ships, which is never a bad thing in my book.

John Williams, Star Wars VI: Return of the Jedi: "Sail Barge Assault (Alternate)"

Much more original than the film version which contains a fair amount of modified music from the original Star Wars film.

John Williams, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: "Ugh, Vines!"

This is probably my favourite track from the score and it even in the film.

While the film version gets distracted with silly music and Mutt-type Raiders March music in the middle of the action,

the alternate manages to maintain a much more serious and exciting pace throughout.

Does anyone have the recording sessions for Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian?

Is anyone familiar with the alternates in there? There's LOTS, but I haven't a clue how different they are from each other.

[Jay 37,364]

How bout the album version of Funeral Pyre For A Jedi? That's a case were both versions are so good, depending on what day you ask me I could pick either one as my favorite.

The jazzy Holiday Flight alternate from Home Alone 2 comes to mind as well. Probably would never have worked well in the film

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I'm a bit confused on the alternates for the Star Wars scores and, since I've only ever listened to the expanded editions, am not familiar with most of them.

"Lost R2" from Star Wars: Is this "Binary Sunset (Alternate)"?

And which alternates from Return of the Jedi are substantially different from their film versions?

I've got Stefan's edit as reference, but haven't listened to it yet.

In addition to the alternates on the expanded editions, I see ones for "Han Solo Returns" and "The Emperor Arrives". What's the difference there?

And what's the difference between "Ewok Celebration (Film Version)" and Ewok Celebration (Album)"?

Sounds like I definitely need to listen to "Funeral Pyre For A Jedi" in any case!

[Jay 37,364]

I'm a bit confused on the alternates for the Star Wars scores and, since I've only ever listened to the expanded editions, am not familiar with most of them.

Then you've heard them all, as they are all on the expanded editions.

"Lost R2" from Star Wars: Is this "Binary Sunset (Alternate)"?

Yes

And which alternates from Return of the Jedi are substantially different from their film versions?

I've got Stefan's edit as reference, but haven't listened to it yet.

In addition to the alternates on the expanded editions, I see ones for "Han Solo Returns" and "The Emperor Arrives". What's the difference there?

And what's the difference between "Ewok Celebration (Film Version)" and Ewok Celebration (Album)"?

Just listen to them to find out man!

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

The two ewok celebrations differ in one being sung by the choir and theo ther sung by the ewoks. probably the later features a little more tribal percussions.

Han solo returns (alt) has part of the jabba concert version in the end. (i particularly think that this is not the concert version mixxed with the other performance, but that williams composed an alternate (or the original) implementing part of jabba's concert theme.

the emperor arrives tracks differ on the beggining.

[STORM 1]

Superman`s dome opens so superb! but i`d agree with sail barge assault and enterprise.

[tharpdevenport 4]

We'll take a Trek stroll for a mintue here:

"Star Trek: First Contact"

Cue: what is called on the boots, since unreleased, "Smorgasborg"

By: I think this was a Joel cue -- don't have it handy.

The alternate version is longer (by about 20 seconds); its more aggressive, action oriented and "scarier". To me it implies what ever the scene was originally filmed, it was re-filmed and maybe toned down for the film release.

"Star Trek: Generations"

Cue: "Main Title"; in the film used as the end credits, and replaced by the "Overture". I wonder if there are any "End Credits" music not heard...

By: Dennis McCarthy

"Star Trek: The Motion Picture"

Cue: "Spock's Arrival"

By: Goldsmith

As I recall, the alternate is almost completely different from the film version. I prefer to the alternate.

"Spaceballs"

Cue: "Love Theme" or something like that.

By: John Morris

Morris did several versions of it, of course jsut one of those used. While all similar in structure, some very a lot in orchestration, performance, and touches.

"The Sandlot"

Cue:

By: David Newman

About half the film was rescored. The original score, versus the one in the film, is very different.

[Bellosh 3,419]

would....

Indy Rides the Statue count for the Concord Raiders??

[Datameister 2,043]

I find that by and large, rewrites in film scores tend to be a good thing. The original cues are usually deficient in some way. But there are definitely exceptions. One short example would be the original beginning to ROTLA's "The Rolling Boulder." The percussion-heavy insert heard in the film is...fine, I mean, it's functional, but I love the way the cue starts with those exciting brass figures in its original form.

POA is absolutely loaded with rewrites. Most of these were also very good decisions, but I happen to prefer the original "Squeeze Play" over the revised version heard in the film. (It's on the OST - it would have played as the Knight Bus squeezes between the other buses, but it got replaced in the film.) Another one I love is the original ending to "My Dad Conjured the Patronus" - it's that weird pizzicato passage that would have played as Harry and Hermione run from Lupin. The film version uses an alternate ending with heavy percussion and brass, which I think is absolutely brilliant, but the original passage is great in a very different way. There's also an unused string overlay for the original version that I think would make it sound even more bizarre.

As we recently discovered, the original passage that the Imperial March insert replaced in AOTC's "Finale" is pretty sweet. I think the insert is an improvement, but that original version evokes a good mixture of awe, fear, and sadness, and I hope we get to hear the original recording someday.

[Richard Penna 3,690]

A few film versions I vastly prefer:

Dante's Peak - Main Titles

The film (and footwarmer) version feature a slow, building string-led march, similar to material during the eruption/evacuation later on. The OST replaces the entire middle section with a solo violin, followed by a different arrangement evoking the action material in Alien Resurrection. I don't like the alternate so much because its orchestration and tone is a bit more 'bells and whistles' and takes some seriousness away from the scene. The film version stays more as a beating heart in the background.

The Village - Main Titles

I love the film version - it does the same job that the main titles to Signs did, and prepares you for what's about to happen. The promo has an alternate that really just explores the piano material more. It's a nice piece, but in context of M. Night's filmmaking (back when he was still making reasonably *good* films), it doesn't really fit and I'm glad it was rescored.

[Incanus 5,715]

The Village - Main Titles

I love the film version - it does the same job that the main titles to Signs did, and prepares you for what's about to happen. The promo has an alternate that really just explores the piano material more. It's a nice piece, but in context of M. Night's filmmaking (back when he was still making reasonably *good* films), it doesn't really fit and I'm glad it was rescored.

I agree. The original version would have given a wrong mood for the opening of the film.

A good example of amazing alternate take is the Prologue in Fellowship of the Ring where the two early alternates are just as good as the final version although scoring somewhat different length cuts of the scene.

[Quintus 5,399]

The Pod Race. Xylophone with snares.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

On Star Wars Episode I, there's a track right after "Qui-Gon and Darth Maul Meet" that has a really cool alternate ending.

So cool, in fact, that I used it as the last track on Disc 1 of my own personal edition. Too bad that the ending is a bit short and abrupt-like.

[Trent B 337]

David Arnold, Independence Day: All Alternates

Especially "The Virus (Alternate)" makes for a great building listening experience much better than the film version as far as I'm concerned.

For the most part I do agree with this, however I don't agree with "The Virus" part. For myself personally I've always preferred the film versions for "Virus Uploaded", "Hide", "Russel's Packin'" and "He Did It". Maybe because I had always heard the alternates for so long with the bootleg that I got tired of hearing them and had always wanted to hear the film versions outside of the film. A lot of times I find myself going right to "Virus Uploaded" for the ID4 score and listening to that point to the end.

However, the other alternates for the score definitely are good too.

How about the alternate for....

Alan Silvestri

Back To The Future: All alternates

[Jay 37,364]

Alan Silvestri

Back To The Future: All alternates

I would hardly call any of those amazing. The revised film versions were better in all cases IMO. I didn't even put disc 2 of the Intrada set onto my ipod

[Trent B 337]

I didn't either but they're still pretty interesting to hear when compared to the final versions heard in the film.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

For the most part I do agree with this, however I don't agree with "The Virus" part. For myself personally I've always preferred the film versions for "Virus Uploaded", "Hide", "Russel's Packin'" and "He Did It". Maybe because I had always heard the alternates for so long with the bootleg that I got tired of hearing them and had always wanted to hear the film versions outside of the film. A lot of times I find myself going right to "Virus Uploaded" for the ID4 score and listening to that point to the end.

I very much agree that the film version of the finale is absolutely brilliant as well. But I do like the original "The Virus",

which seems a less action-packed, but to me has a brilliant build from being in trouble to the aliens being in trouble instead.

It always manages to put a smile on my face, because it seems to be saying "you aliens are about to get f*cked!".

[Faleel 5,349]

I didn't either but they're still pretty interesting to hear when compared to the final versions heard in the film.

I like the Peabody Barn, Town Square, George to The Rescue, and The Skateboard Chase alternates George to The Rescue especially, it has my favorite statement of the 4x4 motif

[Delorean90 42]

I also prefer the use of Casse's theme in the original "The Day We Fight Back," including the ending of that cue.

EDIT: While I agree that for the vast majority of the time, the final BTTF score is superior, but I think there are some cases where there was nice variety or thematic setup in the original that wasn't retained. For instance, the theme that plays as the Delorean pulls out of the driveway with the trio at the end is introduced in a very cool way in the original "Einstein Disintegrates," giving it more significance as a secondary time travel theme. It's neat to think of it that way when you reach the end. Also, there are cases like "Peabody Barn," where the original version was a unique cue that ended up being replaced with a variation of "'55 Town Square."

I do think that they were right to integrate the main theme more, and there are some cues that feel a bit hollow without some additions ("Delorean Retrieve" is a biggie). Also, the performance just seems tighter on the revised score. However, I definitely think there is merit to the original version, and it's interesting to heart the genesis of ideas that, in some cases, didn't make final cut until Part II.

[Jonesy 55]

I love Binary Sunset (Alternate) and The Enterprise (Alternate).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The alternate, and ultimatly rejected score for A Color Purple that John Williams did.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The alternate Prelude and Main Title from Superman is pretty neat. So is the unused end credit from E.T. Though, the performances aren't as polished on either.

In all cases I can think of, I prefer re-scored film versions/inserts.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Trent B 337]

Burly Brawl and Chateau Swashbuckling from The Matrix Reloaded

In this case I prefer the film version compared to the original compositions.

However I do like the original cue for Chateau Swashbuckling more than Rob Dougan's version. So I guess you could call Don Davis' version of that an alternate.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Definitely agree with Burly Brawl there, but not Chateau Swashbuckling. Rob Dougan > Juno Reactor.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Perhaps the Ballroom Scene from Eastwick, since that Puccini piece was used in its place. Though that may fall more strictly into the *unused* category rather than *alternate*.

I think Oklahoma Territory from Far and Away is an alternate. At least, I recall a different (also good) version in the film. That's really neat.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Definitely agree with Burly Brawl there, but not Chateau Swashbuckling. Rob Dougan > Juno Reactor.

Chateau Swashbuckling is pure awesomeness. I can't listen to Dougan's Chateau without thinking how better the scene would have been with Davis' original score for it.

I think the original misjudges the tone a bit. And nothing in Chateau Swashbuckling quite captures the sheer awesomeness of the sequenced synths chiming in when The Merovingian notices Neo bleeding.

[Incanus 5,715]

I think Oklahoma Territory from Far and Away is an alternate. At least, I recall a different (also good) version in the film. That's really neat.

Yeap the film version is really neat, even bit more fanfarish that the OST version. Sadly it was not on the extra music footwarmer.

[Jim Ware 526]

Sammath Naur (or The Destruction of the Ring) from The Return of the King - it makes so much more musical sense than the film version, even though it was recorded for a very different cut of the scene.

The alternate version of Shadowfax (as heard on the original Two Towers album) is my preferred version.

[crocodile 8,014]

While not a big thing, I actually like the alternate Elanor from ROTK with a Fellowship's theme at the end. I think it should have been in the film.

Karol

[Incanus 5,715]

Sammath Naur (or The Destruction of the Ring) from The Return of the King - it makes so much more musical sense than the film version, even though it was recorded for a very different cut of the scene.

The alternate version of Shadowfax (as heard on the original Two Towers album) is my preferred version.

Here I am of exactly opposite opinion.

I honestly have to say that Sammath Naur while containing some great alternate choral work runs too long, the choir exchanging those phrases of the Ring themes and the Fellowship theme with the orchestra, and quite frankly does not sustain the momentum throughout. I was perhaps expecting more tangible thematic statements. This version might make musical sense but the film version is to me much more emotional.

And the film version of Shadowfax is for me the definitive one even though I have to admit the alternate is nearly equally marvellous.

[Jim Ware 526]

Here I am of exactly opposite opinion.

I honestly have to say that Sammath Naur while containing some great alternate choral work runs too long, the choir exchanging those phrases of the Ring themes and the Fellowship theme with the orchestra, and quite frankly does not sustain the momentum throughout. I was perhaps expecting more tangible thematic statements. This version might make musical sense but the film version is to me much more emotional.

I suppose it's the systematic musical deconstruction of the ring themes that pushes me in the direction of the alternate. In the cut of the film to which it was recorded, the idea of 'unmaking' the ring was given more prominence - it seems to have been quite a protracted thing judging by the music!

And the film version of Shadowfax is for me the definitive one even though I have to admit the alternate is nearly equally marvellous.

Both are great - it's a close call.

[Richard Penna 3,690]

I'm with Incanus on this one.

I've never really liked Sammath Naur that much; I was a tad disappointed actually when this turned out to be the 'amazing alternate' that Doug has hyped. I rarely like purely choral stuff, and as Mikko said, it loses energy and (somewhat) my interest since the thematic statements are pretty subtle.

I like both Shadowfax versions but the film version more. More focused and noble, and a better buildup to the White Rider theme.

Talking of LotR:

The theatrical version of The Tower of Cirith Ungol is vastly superior to the extended one. I think musically, breaking up the fanfare with the short passage for the inserted shot of the orc, was a huge mistake. I was hoping they might leave that insert out for the CR, but we still have the BFME material.

I also greatly prefer the alternate ending to Flight to the Ford. The brass clusters are exciting, whereas the film ending just sort of... stops. Given that the alternate was on the CR, I guess Shore preferred it too.

I prefer the final version of the Argonath. I love the 1:33 - 1:43 string part of the alternate; such a mystical quality to it. But the rest of that seems too fragmented, jumping from strings to horns with the gondor theme, back to strings and then slowly dying away. I appreciate what Shore was trying to achieve at first, but the rescore with brass/strings working together is more effective for me.

[Faleel 5,349]

Talking of LotR:

The theatrical version of The Tower of Cirith Ungol is vastly superior to the extended one. I think musically, breaking up the fanfare with the short passage for the inserted shot of the orc, was a huge mistake. I was hoping they might leave that insert out for the CR, but we still have the BFME material.

I also greatly prefer the alternate ending to Flight to the Ford. The brass clusters are exciting, whereas the film ending just sort of... stops. Given that the alternate was on the CR, I guess Shore preferred it too.

The unedited version of The Tower of Cirith Ungol is better than the cut version

[Henry B 50]

I've never really liked Sammath Naur that much; I was a tad disappointed actually when this turned out to be the 'amazing alternate' that Doug has hyped. I rarely like purely choral stuff, and as Mikko said, it loses energy and (somewhat) my interest since the thematic statements are pretty subtle.

Agreed that the themes are stated subtly. I listened to this track several times and was also disappointed. But when I saw this discussion, I tried it again and something clicked. Weird how that happens. Now I really dig the musical deconstruction of the Ring. I actually think it's full of momentum, and has much more apocalyptic flair than the (admittedly cool) film version. I was always disappointed by the way the Ring falls into the lava... sits for a while... then suddenly disintegrates. The sort of gradual collapse this music suggests could have been really awesome on screen.